Stereo Amp and speakers under 30k

[quote][/More over why and where in the gods name did center channel come to Stereo sound ?? QUOTE]

Hi

Below is an extract from a Stereophile article.

"Center Forward
Using a center speaker to enhance the reproduction of two-channel stereo signals is an idea that dates back as far as the early stereo experiments conducted at Bell Laboratories in the early 1930s. With film sound foremost in mind, the Bell team developed a three-channel, three-loudspeaker stereo system, the use of a center channel being favored because it better locked the sonic image to the screen image for viewers offset to one or other side of the auditorium, and better tracked the movement of sound sources across the screen. In the course of development, though, Bell compared its full three-channel stereo system with various alternatives, including two-channel recordings reproduced using a derived center channel (footnote 1). Paul Klipsch revived this idea in the late 1950s, performing a series of experiments (footnotes 2–5) that led him to conclude that using three loudspeakers to reproduce two-channel stereo signals offers superior results.

The method used by Bell and Klipsch to generate the signal for the third, centrally placed loudspeaker was as simple as could be. The left and right stereo channels were summed and subject to appropriate, perhaps variable, attenuation. So, using L to represent the left-channel signal and R the right-channel signal, the center speaker was fed k(L+R) , where k is less than 1 and represents the applied attenuation.

Although Klipsch was enthusiastic about the benefits of his 2, 2, 3 approach (two recording channels, two transmission channels, three loudspeakers)—claiming that "All the stereo recording systems are amenable to using a derived central channel and the expense is small for a large gain in stereo geometry"4—the idea of using a third loudspeaker did not catch on and the concept faded from view.

If this was due, at least in part, to a third loudspeaker and amplifier being financially and domestically unacceptable in the early 1960s, then the arrival of home-theater systems in the early 1990s—equipped with a center-channel speaker as standard—represented an opportunity to resurrect the concept. This was duly exploited when Michael Gerzon presented a paper describing an elaborated 2, 2, 3 system at the 91st Convention of the Audio Engineering Society in October 1991 (footnote 6).

Although the idea was inspired by home theater and the need to provide better locking of the audio and visual images over a wider listening area, that wasn't the only benefit of Gerzon's system. He also claimed improved image focus and reduced listening fatigue for a listener in the stereo hot seat. What Gerzon was suggesting with the latter claim was that a central loudspeaker can reduce the amount of unconscious work the brain has to do to construct a credible soundstage from just two channels.

Drawing on the psychoacoustic knowledge he had incorporated into Ambisonics, what Gerzon described in his paper were improved methods for replaying M channels over N loudspeakers, where N is greater than M. In the simplest case, where M=2 and N=3—ie, the generation of a center channel from a two-channel stereo signal—his scheme became known as Trifield processing when the rights to it were bought by Trifield Productions Ltd. in the UK. Trifield, in common with all of Gerzon's "optimum reproduction matrices," is frequency-dependent, which gives it much improved performance compared with Klipsch's simple bridged center channel."



I have seen several vintage stereo amps with speaker connections for a center channel output.A friend of mine uses his Fisher X1000 EL34 tube integrated amp with three big vintage JBL speakers.

Regards
Rajiv

Dear Rajiv

Thanks for the information...

Its really useful...

Thanking You

Mridul Goel

Hi Mridul,

Its ok no probs !! its just that you said twice the same thing ( referred 2.1 in two posts) and certain things,So I had to intervene.

Am glad that our words have had such an major impact on you that you, A guy who swore by new have decided to buy a pre-owned stuff !! But don't just depend on this forum for response to buy some, also look at different places,Am sure you'll find what you want !! I know couple people who are into pre-owned stuff,so if you want please PM me for more details !!

Regards.

Hi,

Rajiv what you've posted is very good example of center usage. yes its a very old theory of summing Left and Right (L+R) for center and subtracting Left and Right (L-R) for surrounds !! but we are talking bout things in general that the majority use and is in existence !! that was what the point of my quote ( atleast thats what I meant ).

if it were so popular and truly beneficial,then the guys like Nelson Pass,Bob Carver,Ken-Ishiwata and others to name a few, would made it a common practice to include this center channel in all their otherwise two channel designs and it would've been the norm of any stereo sound ( I don't what they would've called it then) even today as opposed to it being an extinct species !!

Otherwise as Anil has posted there's something called holographic recording which when played through a good pair of headphones will give you a multichannel sound and 3 dimensional sound that no regular speaker can ever reproduce !! Now can we take that point and say that we should negate the use of the conventional speakers altogether ?? there are several other examples like this !!

I think whenever we quote ( or atleast I ) its always in general and normal practice thats followed all over the world !!

Regards.

AFAIK there are no shops in India, specializing in pre-owned gear. Now what to do?

1> Spread the word; tell as many people as you can about your interest in any specific brand & model of an audio gear. Who knows, somewhere or other something will click. Placing an advt ('WANTED:.....") on various forums, audio magazines might help.

2> If you know anybody owning that specific brand & model of an audio gear, contact him/her, check whether s/he is interested in selling that stuff (of course this is a very delicate and difficult task, needs quite a diplomacy!) .

Existing investment is what blocking people from upgrading, if they come to know that they can get a reasonable value for their existing gear, they might take the plunge

3> Many Hifi dealers often have some 'trade-ins’ / demo items, do check with them at periodic intervals, at least let them know that you are keen in buying that specific brand & model of an audio gear.

In short try in all possible directions and have considerable patience.

Hope this helps

SUhas

One good person to contact for used audio equipment, is hifipal4all on this forum (Ramesh@Bangalore 91-9844404269).
He has posted an add for NAD amp, but I am sure he can arrange more stuff for you.
NAD Stereo System - HiFiVision Classifieds

Thanks,
Sharad

Hi,

I don't see any of the members posting anything about Norge speakers. I think the Norge TWR125 floorstanders (17k, 3 way) is a very good buy for that budget, they also make the amp...their best amp (forgot the series name, its Norge Gold something) comes for about 10k...its a no frills amplifire, does not have a remote, but the combo sounds amazing, better that many combos at twice the price, A friend of mine has bought that system recently and it sounds amazing, you should definitely go and check it out..go to their factory in Mahim and listen to the speakers before buying anything...

If you can strech your budget a little more, go for the Cambridge Stereo amp, the entry level one comes for about 17k..the mordaunt short speakers go very well with the CA amps... audition the avant 904i (Rs. 14k, 2 way floorstanders) or 906i (Rs. 21k, 2.5 way floorstander)

Hi,

Koushik, I've already become the badman for commenting on the said product so will not say anything here but only request you to checkout this thread for further clarifications or to answer your questions !!

http://www.hifivision.com/amplifiers...amplifier.html

Regards.

At that budget I strongly recommend you Norge. Entry level products from International brands are a costly proportion. Norge will fit well within that budget and will offer a very good value for money.

Bose is known to be terrible value for money. They are way over priced and don't reproduce sound as accurately as expected by audiophiles. They are known as lifestyle products rather than hifi.