Norge Reference 2000 Stereo Amplifier

Manufacturers use the term 'Reference' very loosely whereas it should be used only when it is a truly reference grade against which any or all similar equipment can be judged.

If Norge chooses to badge their product "Reference" then they expect it to be compared to anything regardless of price point. If it can't compete (which is obvious from the various posts) then the badge is not justified and is misleading to the consumer.

"Manufacturers use the term 'Reference' very loosely"

Very true. That's exactly why Norge doesn't deserve that harsh a criticism. Why pick Norge for something so many companies around the globe are doing?

As informed people our job is to tell people the truth about the product quality rather than questioning its marketing terminology.

As for Norge using the term Reference or Audiophile. There is nothing wrong in using that. They can be ONLY compared to similarly priced products. If they offer very good sound for the price, it is but obvious that they would be tempted to use words like those.

Its about the playing level. Just see where they are playing and then comment rather than taking them literally.

Hi,
Ranjeet whatever gave you the impression and idea that Am arguing ??

Iam trying to help the community (or else why do think I'll waste my valuable time in posting or for that matter spending so much time here) I have no personal commercial interest unlike others here !! So all Iam trying to do is,At my best help the forum grow and with it I want gain knowledge grow myself ( no one in the world knows everything !!) !!

I have time and again said in all my posts Iam not interested arguing or don't want to offend anyone !! inspite of that if you think Am arguing then I don't know what to say !

As with other comments of yours,I've very clearly mentioned the diamond series and Q acoustics in comparison with Norge,So I don't why still you say

If talking the truth is a crime then Am guilty of it and I don't know what else to do !!

I make sure I always talk with facts and figures and I think 10 times before posting any comment !

Hope this clears any doubts Ranjeet !!

I didn't intend to claim you were arguing. Take it lightly. I just saw this thread degenerating into a non-productive one, so decided to step in.

Cheers.

Hi,

Common Ranjeet you know more then that my friend !! Now do you mean to say that if Universal from Delhi uses Audiophile badge or Reference on their products it automatically graduates to be in same lines as the Norge and DNM PACE ???

If a company wants to use a fancy name they are most welcome let them do it ,They have all the rights and we are no one to talk !! but the same company uses the standard terms Such as Reference and Audiophile etc,then they have to be very careful about it !! they cannot use what they want at their whims and fancies !!

You cannot expect to people not concerned bout it !!

Regards

Dear soundsgreat,

I'll leave it to your own interpretation. But most people on this forum are mature enough to understand that they cannot buy a "Reference" product for 10-15K. Or a pair of "Audiophile" loudspeaker for 10-15k. They know what type of "Reference" level it would be or what type of "Audiophile" quality it would be.

Also, please refresh your understanding of the words "Audiophile" and "Reference". If you still have something to say, I'll come back to comment later. On a break now.

Regards,
Ranjeet

I haven't criticised Norge at all. I have no idea what their 'Reference' product sounds like. But as Soundsgreat also pointed out if they use terms like "Audiophile" and "Reference" then they are claiming it to be so, which it apprently is not.

"As informed people our job is to tell people the truth about the product quality rather than questioning its marketing terminology."

And this is exactly what Soundsgreat and I are attempting to do by telling people the truth that it is NOT a REFERENCE product! If it were simply called Norge 2000, I would not be posting on this thread.

Hi,

Thank god atleast you understand what Am talking bout awedeophile !!

Ranjeet As to refresh my understanding of these words ! I will not comment anything ( this will certainly lead to an argument if I do,Which is BIG NO NO for me).

By the way please please understand that I have nothing against any particular company in any way !!

Finally like you said if most of the guys know what the words mean (Which I apparently have no clue !) then I suppose this thread wouldn't have existed now does it ??

We all have some knowledge of our own and can judge the product on different levels !! But here we are only talking bout the newbies and not so well informed people that, certain product claiming to certain level or quality,Is it true or is not thats all !! most buyers instinctively select anything that uses the these words ( the words that are in question) without ever knowing the actual meaning or the implications of this !!

We are just trying to guide the people who are looking for some series help thats the Bottom line.

Regards.

"Audiophiles are people who seek to listen to music at a level of quality as close to the original performance as possible. They use high-fidelity components to try and attain these goals."

"Audiophile values may be applied at all stages of music reproduction: the initial audio recording, the production process, and the playback, which is usually in a home setting. High-end audio refers to expensive, high-quality, or esoteric products and practices used in the reproduction of music. Electronic gear used by audiophiles is typically sold at specialist shops. Prices range from not much more than mass market electronics to astronomical heights: high-end audio systems can easily cost more than a new automobile and in extreme cases can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most of this gear is produced by companies that specialize in high-end gear, although some also produce equipment used by audio professionals such as by recording studios."

"The hobbyist will usually have great interest in the gear used, and may travel to listen to equipment not available in his own city, and spend hours in making minor changes to his gear and comparing the results. Hi-fi ownership and upgrading is often a hobby in its own right, where the pursuit of sound fidelity seems to be almost completely disassociated from the love of music. These "audiophiles" are solely into the gear. The music is just considered incidental or a means of "testing" equipment. Some have satirized this as fastidiousness."

Source: Audiophile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reference is something the company believes is the paramount of their technological innovations that could serve as a reference for the rest of their components or line of products. Now, does this necessary mean that this "reference product" should be considered as a reference material in comparison to other companies’ products? - I don’t think so! If it helps, my HiFi is supposedly from the reference range of Marantz, do I consider that to be the best reference material in the world against the absolute best out there, No I don’t. It would be stupid and extremely ignorant of me to even think like that. But do Marantz consider this as reference grade in their line up of products, apparently they do- and I believe they have all the rights to do that.

Hope this helps as a refresher in understanding, just in case if we are lost! - now is it time for me to choose my weapons?!

Hi,

Well well what do we have here ?? another one ! This is turning out to be an TITANIC of a battle Royal !! Sharpen your pitch forks & Knives !!


Well Am out of here buddies !! never been or will in any arguments or the likes !!

Regards.