high end hifi

Hi everyone im a uk based indian in Southampton. I enjoy listening to a wide range of music from soul, jazz funk, easy listening, indian etc.
One thing I did notice was that you dont really get the best sounding products in India such as audio research, jadis,krell, proac etc.
But Im glad to see many true music lovers in India.
any one who cares for a music session if ever in uk mail me on davinder007sunder@hotmail.co.uk
I have the following set up.
audio research cd3 mk2 cd player
linn LP12/ EKOS/ARKIVA 2/LINGO POWER SUPPLY
audio esarch LS 7 PRE-AMP
JADIS da8 amp
transparent music wave speaker cables, van del hul the 2nd interconect cables. cost price £20,000+
HAS TO BE HEARD TO BE APPRECIATED
take care guys

Hi! Davinder,

Nice of you to post. BY the way you are sadly mistaken in the number of brands that are officially available in India today: Some of them are:-
PROAC, LINN, JADIS, KRELL, B&W, DYNAUDIO, DALI, PRIMARE, ARCAM, CREEK, EPOS, THETA, MUSICAL FIDELITY, THIEL etc & many more of them.

These are all available officially in India.

What speakers do you use in your set-up?

Prithviraj,

I plan to build my hifi, which eventually will morph into a home theatre system.Initially, it will be a hifi-with a turntable, a cassette deck and a cdp.
1.I will like to be guided in terms of the speakers, the pre-amp and the amp etc.
2. I would like to know the basic principles so that I can select the right components.
3. I live in Bombay-so space is at a premium: the min space( volume) is 10X11X12; the max space(volume) is 14X11X12, all in feet.
4. My tastes in music are hindustani classical ( vocal & instrumental), western classical, jazz,rabindra sangeet, hindi film music of the 1950s to 1960s
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Can you please recommend a site where I can start to understand and therefore decide? Alternatively, can you recommend a shop/expert who can provide reasonable inputs?

Lest I forget, my budget for the hifi is around Rs 100k-150k.

Thank you
fscottf

In addition to what Prithvi has said, other really high brands I can think of that are available in India are Chord, Halcro, Stewart, Pathos, Sunfire, Parasound. I think any HiFi equipment that has any value is available in India.

It is not only in HiFi - if you have the money you can get anything you want in India. The Indian Customs rules have also changed quite a lot in the recent past. Importing anything you want is easy now. I have generally seen that the customs authorities are not even bothered with small items nowadays. I have personally carried a number of expensive HiFi equipment, and have never been bothered by the Customs officers in spite of the fact that I always go to the red channel.

Venkatcr,

I read elsewhere in one of the forums that possibly the best way to judge a system would be to hear it. That might be correct, but one has to start somewhere... how does one start?
Is it by considering the speakers wrt your room size/volume and the type of music that you play?
Or is it by looking at the amplifiers/pre-amps etc. etc.?
I wish to enjoy my music ( hindustani classical, rabindra sangeet, western classical, jazz, hindi film music) for a period of atleast 5 + years. I have cassettes, 33 1/3, 45 & 78 rpm records and CDs.
I wish to stich together a turntable, a CDp and a cassette deck.
Any recommendations?
I live in Bombay.
Regards
fscottf

Hi,
Since u are based in mumbai auditioning many brands will not be a problem.
I would say u buy a What HIFI or similar and read whats available and where(contact Nos on last page). Am not for a moment saying u treat it as a bible but just an indicator.
Then u start doing the rounds of the many AV dealers and hear all the speakers u can(even some above ur proposed budget). Then u will be able to decide for yourself why some people here/or in magazines/ or on the internet rave about some products. Once u have shortlisted the speakers and confirmed that they satisfy u in every way buy the best amplification u can afford for those speakers and last add the source.
U may go the standard spending 1/3 on every component way or deviate a bit and still be happy.
Places to go in bbay would be Lakozy, soundsmiths,Boomerang, AVI,Designer Audio, PRO FX and it goes on and on.

Lastly since u are also bbay based u could call me on 9821034414 if u have any questions/problems
Regards

I will try to expand on what Dinyaar has suggested.

Well, the first place you start (unlike me) is to start with a budget. You have a budget of, say, 150K. Now let us see what you need and how much price you can allocate for each part.

1. Source - CD Player
3. Source - Turntable
2. Source - Cassette Deck
3. Power - Integrated or pre and power amp.
4. Output- Speakers
5. Accessories - Speaker cables and connectors
6, Accessories - Power conditioning

Let us take out the known factors and then arrive at the variable,

1. Cassette Deck - a reasonable deck should cost you around 15,000 to the max. Dinyaar had rated Technics, Sony and Denon as good decks.
2. Stabiliser and line filters - An APC UPS of about 2KVA should come for about 5K, and a TrippLite EMI/RFI Filter should cost your around 5K.
3. Good speaker cables come about 100Rs a feet. You would need 30 feet - that is another 3000.
4. Connectors - though these things vary in price, a good coaxial RCA cables with gold plated connectors would be a max of 5K
5. Phono Input - This will cost you around 5K.

So that is 40,000 allotted for the accessories. You now have 110K left. With this you should buy speakers, amplifier, and CDP.

SPEAKERS

In your choice of music, there would be no problems with Hindustani, Hindi Film Music, Rabindra Sangeet, and even Jazz. All these genres have limited number of instruments, and what you should look for is clarity across the lead singer, and the accompanying instruments. If your choice were limited to these, it would have been easy to go with a high end bookshelf, attached to a good subwoofer.

The issue is primarily with Western classical. This genre has a number of issues: - one is the number of instruments; second is the sudden silence, third is the sheer volume of music when 100 instruments are playing together, and finally it is the need to simulate the surroundings whether it is a church or a auditorium. I would say only a 3 way floor stander can accomplish this, and that too preferably with a 8 inch woofer driver. Some speakers come with two 5 inch drivers, and they can also perform well. To handle the sudden silence you need speakers with very quick response time, and with zero reverberation.

Look for speakers with a frequency response of 20/30Hz to about 30KHz. The frequency range should cover the lower and upper limits of the frequency response and should not vary by more than 9dB. Sensitivity should be around 90dB. For more details on what these mean, refer to the following link.

http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/1...ncy-vs-db.html

So there you have it. You should go in for floor standers. A pair of reasonable floor standing speakers would cost you around 50,000. A short listed set would consist of the following in ascended order of their estimated price. All these can handle 100 watts, mostly at 8 ohms.

Wharfedale Diamond 8.3 17,000
Mission M33i 17,500
Warfedale Diamond 9.6 30,000
KEF IQ5 37,500
Monitor Audio Silver R56 58,000
KEF IQ7 60,000
Acoustic Energy Aelite 3 63,000
EPOS M22 70,000
Dali Ikon 6 72,000
KEF IQ9 80,000

Also take a look at some these bookshelves

Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 12,500
Monitor Audio Bronze Br2 30,000
B&W DM601 S3 31,000
Epos M12.2 37,000
Dali Ikon 2 50,000
B&W CM1 54,000
Dynaudio Audience 52 58,000
Dynaudio Focus 110 80,000

You are left with 60,000.

POWER

Pre amp/power amp combination from the likes of Parasound would be about 140K. So that is ruled out. The one combination that may fit your budget is the Rotel RC-1070 pre and the Rotel RA-04 power at 34,000 and 31,000 each. Another pair is the Rega Cursa that will set you back by 90,000.

The better option is to look for an integrated amp. Some of the options are:

Maranzt PM6001 25,000
Cambridge Audio Azur 640C 29,000
Marantz PM7001 29,000
NAD C352 37,000
Rotel RA-05 37,000
Cyus 6vs2 60,000
Cyrus 8vs2 80,000

All these amps shell out between 50 to 75 watts of pure power to each channel.

CD Player.

What we are doing here is looking at players that can play only audio CDs, and CD-R. CD-R are those that you record at home. Some of the CDPs may be able to play MP3, but there is no guarantee. So who do you do for MP3, SACD, and DVD-A? Simple. Buy a universal DVD Player. These will play literally any disc you throw at it. And for SACD and DVD-A you also need an AVR. We will leave this for a later investment.

Good CD Players vary in prices. The difference in prices comes from two aspects - the capability to render good to excellent DAC conversion, and the capability to do high order sampling of the media to bring about accurate rendering of the music. Remember such CD players have a negative side called transparency. If the source material is bad, they will just send it as it is to the amplifier. Some choices are:

NAD 521BEE 18,000
Arcam Diva CD73 44,000
Marantz CD 5400 21,000
CAmbridge Audio Azur 640C v2 22,000
NAD C542 28,000
Cyrus CD6s 65,000
Cyrus CDXt 80,000

The total budget will now be around 200K. So what is to be done? What I would suggest is that you first listen to a few good bookshelves such as the B&W DM 601S3 and the Epos M12.2. Take a Beethoven or Mozart with you. If you like the sound, you would save about 30,000. You can then use this money on the pre/power or integrated amps, or CD Player. I have given a large price range - somewhere between 15,000 to about 80,000. Do some home work on the specs, shorten the list to what you think will be good, and start auditioning.

In terms of amplification there are also the tube amps. Two good affordable companies are Cayin from China and Lyrita in Delhi. With tube amps, you have look for very special speakers to handle the low output of these amps. Unless you have heard and have a liking for tube amps, I would veer away from them for your kind of listening. Yes they are excellent for Jazz, and even Orchestral music, but a solid state amp will do well for these as well as for the other genres you like.

I have nothing against tube amps. What I am attempting here is to give you a complete system. I have also left out the turntable, as I am not sure what is available in India and what is good. I am sure another member will chip in with information on turntables.

Please keep us updated on your progress.

Cheers.

Hi,
WOW that is one detailed reply from venkat.
Just to put my two bit in.
I would not bother too much about power products /cables etc before i buy my set up. If u are in south mumbai u can plug directly into wall outlets at least initially. Where ever u buy the set up from u can ask for some used cables(speaker cable + interconnects) and u will get quite a range at about 50/60% of original value. Basically what i am saying is to initially spend most of the budget on gear and u can always experiment/add on cables etc.
Speakers are a very personal choice. The 600 series 3 from B&W is now replaced and hence 601 is ruled out and frankly i dont think much of the new 685/686.
For amplification i think a Nad integrated should be a safe bet. Reliable and decent sounding. C352 is replaced by C355 but look at C372. Does not sell much due to poor reviews but is a beefy amp and should get deals. The pre circuitry is almost identical in all Nad Integrateds and hence i cannot fathom how 372 is rubbish( many audiophiles proclaim this) but the 352 is superb. The pre/power 162/272 is much costlier and in my opinion does not justify the premium. U will not get the phono stage in the integrated though. Have used all three nad i have referred to. I would avoid rega amps and the Rotel RC 1070 is a very mediocre preamp and the matching power amps would be RB 1070 or RB 1080 and not the RA 04 as thats a small 40 watt integrated. Frankly the rotel pre/powers make a lot of noise but are also very mediocre. Plus the Rotel Pre/power would be over 1L + taxes and IMO not worth it.
For a cdp i think a Marantz cdp is good. Either 6002 @ 19K or if u can fit it SA 7001 @ 34 are very good options. Some of the cdp s venkat mentioned are now replaced and i doubt will be available now.
Regards

Hi Venkat, is there any typo here , 2 KVA UPS that too from APC for 5K !!!! You won't get even a cheap Voltage stabilizer for that price (I paid 13K for KryKArd 3 KVA Servo Stab with EMI/RFI filter, 2 KVA was Rs 12000.)

! If you really know the source for APC 2 KVA UPS @ 5K (hope it comes with batteries too) then let me know ASAP, Will buy two instead . For Interconnectors why you said 5K Max? For 5K you will get just an ordinary Interconnect. A 150K system deserves something better. Which brand are you talking about?

You forgot to mention Audio System Rack!!!

For a 150 K system I would suggest:

1> Equipment Rack: 5K
2> Speaker cables: 5K
3> Interconnects: 10k
4> Entry Level CD player: 15K (even consider a pre-owned one)
5> Floor Standers: 75K (There are many betterr brands than Wharfedale, MA, Dali)

6> Pre-Owned Intergrated Amp: 40K (There are many better brands than NAD, CA, ROTEL)

I don't recomend a new Cassette Deck , one can find a pre-owned one but servicing and spares is a big problem. Better drop the idea instead digitize those audio Cassettes. It is a one time job.


Turntable and Phono Stage are pretty expensive (and Software is even more expensive.!) and a 150K budget is not enough to have these two along with the rest other gear mentioned above . One can squeeze in everything but then quality will suffer and it will become a case of 'Jack of All but Master of Nothing' .

Once again,

1> Max on speakers (in this case 75K+). Even consider a pre-owned pair. That way one can have a 150K MSRP pair for 75K or even less.

2> Start with an entry level CDP or even a good DVDP

3> Buy a pre-owned Integrated amp ,

4> Allocate some 10-15% of the budget on good Interconnect and Speaker cables but don't overspend.

5> Have a sturdy equipment rack to place all these gears.

6> Don't spend on fancy Power cords.

7> A good Pure Sine Wave UPS of adequate rating will cost a bomb almost equal to the entire system cost! Settle for a good Servo Voltage Stabilizer with built in EMI/RFI filters.

8> Listen to Music and not the electronics. So spare some budget for quality music too.

Hope this helps

SUhas