A first Hi-fi system with Saptak Acoustics Rediscovery speakers and O&B DMB 2300 amp

[sachin.shiva]

Please add demo of some hindi songs also

 

[reignofchaos]

The ear piercing sound he is suggesting is from the forwardness of the ATC in the mid range, its slightly less in the 3-way design but thats more or less the ATC sound. Having owned the SCM11 for almost 3yrs now and counting and also hearing the scm20 and scm40 on other occasions, the lack of low end in the sealed design and the tweeter being a few DB's lower than the mids makes the sound more piercing or forward for someone looking for a more balanced sound. Toe-in to the listening position definitely helps but the sound still remains mid focused, The soft dome tweeter is just too soft to offend any ears. I have tried the ATC's with accuphase E-270, sugden a21se signature, eam lab musica 102i with matrix, audionote and lumin dac. The results were the same with the mid range having the tendancy to come at you and sound forward. With the accuphase in play the tweeter just left the party even before it started, it was all mids jam with accuphase playing.

You used all the wrong amps with ATC and then you complain. You need more current to drive an ATC. Mine came alive only after I fed them with 300W/ch monoblocks. There is absolutely no ear piercing highs or fatigue if you setup an ATC correctly. If your chain has a flaw, it will show up. Could be the amps you used or your source.

 

[Phew]

You used all the wrong amps with ATC and then you complain. You need more current to drive an ATC. Mine came alive only after I fed them with 300W/ch monoblocks. There is absolutely no ear piercing highs or fatigue if you setup an ATC correctly. If your chain has a flaw, it will show up. Could be the amps you used or your source.

If your listening levels are 65-68db you donot need a 300w mono block to drive any atc speaker. No where did I mention the high's to be piercing please read again as to what I have written. More watts can make your speakers play louder but it cannot change the sound of the speaker.

 

[reignofchaos]

If your listening levels are 65-68db you donot need a 300w mono block to drive any atc speaker. No where did I mention the high's to be piercing please read again as to what I have written. More watts can make your speakers play louder but it cannot change the sound of the speaker.

It does matter. I am saying first hand as I had a 125W/ch McCormack DNA power amp earlier and it struggled to drive the ATC, made it sound exactly as you say - upper mid range forwardness. The very same amp is now working beautifully driving a pair of dyns in my second system. This is quite a high current amp that had driven punishing speakers before but failed with the ATC.

ATC needs current - a lot of current. None of the amps you mentioned - sugden which is a 20W pipsqueak, or an accuphase e270 which is their entry level and again has a quasi compromised PSU making it lack drive or the eam integrated will do justice to this speaker. It needs current and a lot of drive. Once you give it that, it really sings. The electronics the speaker requires probably costs as much or more than the cost of the speaker.

There is a reason why ATC mentions 75-300W as the power range of the SCM19 that I own - it absolutely needs the grunt. The power reserves help it. Most people discard these speakers without even bothering to put the right amps on them and then complain.

 

[drkrack]

ATC needs current - a lot of current. None of the amps you mentioned - sugden which is a 20W pipsqueak, or an accuphase e270

It Doesn't end there, it needs everything upto a certain standard. Gryphon Diablo and ATC synergy is absolutely fantastic, as good as McIntosh with B&Ws or SFs. Class D (Peachtree Amp500 in my case) will show its weakness in favor of class AB.
The upstream electronics play a crucial role, I had to get rid of RPI based DIY Streamer options, Most of AliExpress based power cables and ICs as they were showing their weaknesses. If Recording is bad it'll be glaringly evident, Couldn't Stand Topping DACs , Terminator all the way. ATCs are typical Audiophile Speakers, invest in ATCs, only if you are willing to invest in all Good Quality components & Room Acoustics. But once it’s done, it’s hard to to beat the SQ upgrade. It doesn't lack bass or HF response once you match components of good calibre.

@manditri thats very good setup you've put up Congratulations , Invest in a 2 Compartment Rack for DAC, don't keep DACs on Power amp. Your next big upgrade should be a R2R DAC, like Gustard R26 which is a Good Streamer, DAC and Preamp with Remote. Also you could take advantage of XLR ICs.That should be a setup to challenge most of Midfi Offerings.

 

[Phew]

It does matter. I am saying first hand as I had a 125W/ch McCormack DNA power amp earlier and it struggled to drive the ATC, made it sound exactly as you say - upper mid range forwardness. The very same amp is now working beautifully driving a pair of dyns in my second system. This is quite a high current amp that had driven punishing speakers before but failed with the ATC.

ATC needs current - a lot of current. None of the amps you mentioned - sugden which is a 20W pipsqueak, or an accuphase e270 which is their entry level and again has a quasi compromised PSU making it lack drive or the eam integrated will do justice to this speaker. It needs current and a lot of drive. Once you give it that, it really sings. The electronics the speaker requires probably costs as much or more than the cost of the speaker.

There is a reason why ATC mentions 75-300W as the power range of the SCM19 that I own - it absolutely needs the grunt. The power reserves help it. Most people discard these speakers without even bothering to put the right amps on them and then complain.

I still have the speakers with me, you still haven't read what I have written or maybe not made the effort to understand it. The power reserve does help alot as you pointed but that reserve will not change the sound of the speaker. The difference here lies in the fact that I have posted my comments above after using all this stuff and still owing it, you on the other hand are commenting on these brands through your assumptions on reading specsheets. Good for you if you like your ATC.

 

[reignofchaos]

I still have the speakers with me, you still haven't read what I have written or maybe not made the effort to understand it. The power reserve does help alot as you pointed but that reserve will not change the sound of the speaker. The difference here lies in the fact that I have posted my comments above after using all this stuff and still owing it, you on the other hand are commenting on these brands through your assumptions on reading specsheets. Good for you if you like your ATC.

So when you don't have a point to contend with, you end up name calling?

I own the SCM19. It is still in my listening room - I've tried five different amps with it and in the end I settled for a pair of big monos as they sound the best with them.

 

[Miany]

Having owned both SCM19 and 19 Actives, I can easily vouch for getting the amplification right for the ATCs to sing. With Actives, you have that synergy and just need to get the preamp right.

If you dont want to play around with the amplification, get the active versions and a good preamp. For me, ATCs are highly neutral, brutally revealing speakers that needs good source components to really shine. But once you have everything sorted, you can really enjoy them.

 

[reignofchaos]

If you dont want to play around with the amplification, get the active versions and a good preamp. For me, ATCs are highly neutral, brutally revealing speakers that needs good source components to really shine. But once you have everything sorted, you can really enjoy them.

This is so so true. Way too many times people discount these speakers but the they are doing is that they are revealing speakers are doing is revealing issues in the chain. Source, pre, power everything needs to be absolutely sorted else they will not sing.

 

[souban82]

Please add demo of some hindi songs also

Sachin sir please find one.

 

[souravin]

Sachin sir please find one.

Awesome SQ although a mob cam. Shall come

 

[josephaxe]

My audiophile journey started when I saw the obsession my dad had. His most ultimate system which was his last and was a very painful when we parted ways with it was when he owned the Bob Carver Amp and Pre amp / Marantz cassette deck / Cd Player and eq I dont quite remember the brand and soeakers were Jamo. Even at a very young age he never stopped me from using such a High end system. He had given to me the full freedom to enjoy them. That became my obsession and Instarted off with Bedroom systems like Sharp / JVC / Sony / Kenwood

Slowly it fizzled out and I had hot myself the Nakamichi soundspace 5.

Somewhere in my heart I still wanted to build my system and I started - I would say I am now happy with the Harbeths which is now chained to the O&BSs 2150, I am so Happy with the synergy now with the ss2150 and harbeths they get along very very well - Thank you @⁨O&B⁩ @⁨Self Voda⁩

I am not so technical but I do appreciate the music which is classical.

 

[Vinay103]

I have waited almost 16 years to get into this hobby. And finally decided to take the plunge this year.

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My hunt started with speakers as usual but amp was the first component I finalised. Came across O&B amps on HFV and got in touch with Aniket(@adas). I had the chance to listen to a pair of ATC SCM19s being driven by an O&B DMB at a FMs home. Built like a tank sounded even better. Chose a 150W@8ohms pc in a dual monoblock configuration. At the same time I was still deliberating about speaker choices and the decision was not firmed up. I was considering following options- ATC SCM19, SCM11, Sonus Faber Sonetto II, Monitior Audio Gold, Wharfedale Linton, IndiqAudio Mishra. Was discussing my speaker choices with Aniket and he pointed me to Suman Jana(@smnjn) of Saptak Acoustics. Suman makes 3 different speaker models. He shared measurements, build details, enclosure and component details and costs involved. Based on my budget I decided to go with the Rediscovery Towers.

Both Aniket and Suman promised delivery in roughly 2 months. Paid up the advance and waited.

The speakers arrived packed in layers of foam and bubble wrap. A week later the amp arrived equally well packed. My 11 year old kid was around to help when I was hooking up the system. But at the time it was hard to tell who was the kid. Below is a quick review. I am winging it mostly but these are as objective as I could be with my observations. Reviews and opinions about hi-fi gear and SQ are very relative to what the individual has experienced earlier.

Speakers- Saptak Acoustics Rediscovery Towers​

The speakers come with real wood veneers. Suman offered choices of veneer and I went with coffee walnut. The veneering is really excellent and high quality. Multiple layers of polish and pu gives a rich look and the edges are matched well. Enclosure is built from 1in HDF to keep resonances low. Crossover components are from Jantzen like superior Z caps and aircore inductors. Internal wiring and connectors with Oyaide, Choseal and Aucharm. Suman also builds interconnects and speaker cables with these brands. More on that later. Drivers are both Scanspeak from Revelator series crossed over low at 1600Hz.

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Out of the box the speakers sounded great. Highs and mids were smooth without any hint of being shrill or shouty. There was enough grunt in the low end. But everything was so cohesive. The initial amazement was obviously a bit of rookie rush. So I waited for some run in to happen before writing this review.

- The highs are very detailed with good extension. I never felt any ear fatigue. Bells, strings, cymbals and the likes are revealing yet beautifully warm and smooth.
- The mids are sublime. Probably tweeters ability to crossover very low allows the mid woofer to shine so well. Vocals especially female vocals(Diana Krall) are phenomenal. Together the highs and mids create an extremely natural atmosphere that is true to the source. Though I feel the lower mids are not very pronounced. Suman mentions this will become better after the speakers are run-in for at least 240 hours. At this time they have run-in about 50 hours.
- Bass was a surprise. For a 2 way with 7in mid woofer the speaker can go quite low(~32hz). I can clearly hear stuff even lower like 25hz but probably 5-6db down. Its not quantity or thumping bass but the quality, very musical. I was listening to Awara Bhawre from the movie Sapney. Never knew AR Rehman's music had such quality bass in the track. Then another track- The Plan by Travis Scott from the Tenet movie sound track. Felt like slabs of bass passing through me. But definitely won't shake the floor. And the speaker needs proper positioning or adjustments with the listener's seating to avoid standing waves or boominess. I was experiencing this between 70-75hz.
- Imaging, instrument separation are quite good. May lose some composure in busy sections of a track. But thats a given trait with most 2 ways.
- I have a small room- around 160sqft and the speakers are kept just 7ft apart. Probably not enough separation to experience a good soundstage with floor standers. Tried Chesky records ultimate demo, track- Britten: Festival Te Drum. The choir actually seemed to sing from a height. Allan Taylor's The Tennessee Waltz is equally awesome.
- Transients and dynamics are nice- Prodigy(Pele soundtrack), Mombasa(Hans Zimmer, Inception).
- Quite unforgiving to poorly recorded tracks. But if well recorded, even cheesy bollywood numbers are a charm.
- One thing kept sticking out with these speakers. The coherent, natural and life like reproduction. The speakers have the ability to disappear. Very pleasurable when music envelopes you entirely.

Beside the choices of drivers and enclosure design, I strongly feel the magic is in the crossover design. Suman has done an excellent job. Some might think the speakers are high and mid forward. They are very balanced in my experience. I kept comparing their sound with my headphones and the speakers sounded equally accurate without any coloration.

Amp- O&B DMB2300 dual monoblock amplifier​

I wanted an amplifier which had lots of clean power even for demanding speakers. I do not want to change or upgrade the main piece of equipment powering the music often. Goal was to get something around 100w@8ohms pc. Another requirement was- I didn't want the bells and whistles like inbuilt DAC, streaming, phono, preamp etc and just keep it clean. My search led to mostly pricey monoblocks. After coming across O&B amps I was quite interested looking at the specs and the competitive pricing. Auditioning the amp was what helped me finalize the decision.

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I chose the DMB2300 Dual Monoblock Power Amp in class AB topology. 150w@8ohms pc with individual power supply sections for each channel. Class A operation- 20w@4ohms. Offers both balanced and unbalanced inputs, selectable HPF@20hz, damping factor- more than 800. Entire case is built for heat dissipation. Weighs about 25kgs. Much of that weight comes from a large torroidal transformer inside. Black finish with cool blue VU meters and a green power button gives the amp bit of a McIntoshy vibe. Though I wish it came with an option to dim the VUs for night time listening. Buttons and switches are very tactile and feel solid.

I do not understand amplifier electronics much and I am not experienced in differentiating sonic characters of amplifiers from various brands. But I believe Aniket has built a power amp of high standards. Much of what I experienced with the speaker's ability to reproduce music was a direct result of the amp's prowess to drive 85db sensitivity speakers with complete authority. Switch on the amp and a host of protections relays get into action. At normal listening levels the amp hardly went beyond -40db on the VU meters. Aniket says this is still class A territory. After long hours of running, the amp doesn't get hot, not even warm I would say. Neither did I get any audible hum or noise even at high volumes. The presentation of the amp and the speakers together is very clean with a dark background. Makes it quite good for listening at low volumes at night. Together they make an extremely capable mid-fi system.

DAC- Topping E70 Velvet(AKM AK4499EX)​

I chose this DAC solely based on online reviews. Some reviews have even compared it with higher end DACs twice or thrice the price. I wanted something that was not too entry level although I have plans to upgrade to a better DAC at some point. Very smooth with decent bass. I have played around with the filters it comes with. Couldn't tell a difference. IR remote is a bummer as it needs a short clear line of sight to work accurately with the unit. Nothing more to add here. Overall happy with it's performance.

Cables- Saptak Acoustics Interconnects and Reference speaker cables​

Suman makes some excellent interconnects and speaker cables. The Interconnects are made from Aucharm rca cables and connectors. The speaker cables are made from multiple 20AWG choseal cables twisted together and wrapped with insulation jackets. Initially I was using some 14AWG OFC cables from monster cable. The quality of the Saptak Acoustics speaker cables became apparent when I replaced the monster cable with them. Although the cables need some 10-12 hours of run-in, the difference was immediate and impactful. Everything opened up, started shining more. Cleaner background. And the music overall gained better presentation and soundstage. I thought it was just placebo. But then my septuagenarian mom walked in claiming the music sounded better.

Source- Apple Music​

Source is currently Apple Music Hi-Res Lossless. And I play it directly from a Mac(with Lossless Switcher) or from an Android phone using a long USB cable connected to the DAC. Bit of inconvenience, but as long as I am on Apple Music, this is the only way I can get the best quality.


I stand somewhere in between "music lover" and "gear lover" categories. So goal was to build a solid baseline system with a speaker and amp combo that is above the entry level stuff. Keep my music enjoyment in play for years. Gradually will add or upgrade other parts like sources, dacs, cables etc. First order of things is to get some good quality av rack. After spending considerable time with the system, I am convinced that these components are step in that direction.

Hi, could you please help to know roughly budget of DMB 2300 and Saptak Speaker?
Rgd-Vinay

 

[manditri]

Hi, could you please help to know roughly budget of DMB 2300 and Saptak Speaker?
Rgd-Vinay

DMed you

 

[manditri]

More than two years since I posted about how I started the hobby. The chain has evolved over time. Understanding of this hobby has evolved. Some updates-

Speakers- strongest link in the chain. Rediscoveries are a great example of how good speaker design is more important than exotic materials and swanky finishes with a kidney and liver worthy price tag. Suman has done a fabulous job with the voicing and with time it became apparent. Indeed a very revealing speaker and the scanspeak revelator is a true legend. The speaker responded well with various dacs, streamers, amps that I tried in the last couple of years. But it all comes together because of the design- enclosure, crossover, driver selection. It is a balancing act executed very well. Recently I tried some extreme toe-in to put the projection cross a feet in front of my listening position. I wanted to see how live it gets to emulate horn like energy. I expected bright, edgy presentation. To the contrary and to my delight I loved the presentation even more. Lost a slight bit of stage and air but only slight. But gained some mid bass, image and live feel. I loved the energy, and the in-room presence. Reached for the remote often to crank the volume. I could hear some instruments and vocals I hadn’t heard before. To ensure it is not placebo i have been listening like that for over a month now. No disappointments. This only points to the fabulous voicing of the speakers at frequency ranges which make or break the speakers ‘ character. I am a direct energy listener, I want horns now .

Power and Pre- OnB poweramp has been doing it’s duties quite well. I wanted to add a pre to the chain. Shaan of peeceebee fame has a nice preamp design. I requested a monoblock design fully balanced end to end. Another addition was a khozmo stepped attenuator to the pre. I should have added this pre long back. I didn’t realize lot of music was being rolled off with the leedh control on my lumin. Guitar decays, vocal dynamics. This preamp has no coloration, or specific sonic character, just presents what is provided. This is a serious preamp design and it shows. During the same time I was told that rediscoveries sound great with shaan’s V5 monoblock poweramps. I got a pair and truly the rediscoveries bloomed in their full glory with the poweramps. Nuanced strings, articulate bass, harshness non-existent. OnB is not less, afterall they are well known to drive ATCs with authority. Just that the rediscoveries shone better with the peeceebee.

Digital- pain tears and glory! That’s true for the Dac. I tried various. but the one that I settled for is MHDT orchid dac. What a dac. It plays just 96khz through coax and 192 with Usb. I don’t pay any heed to all that sampling stuff with this. Not dissing any of the higher end higher res devices. I have heard a few including esoteric, lampizator and the famed T+A dac200 with hqp upsampling and diretta. Hands down those kind of digital chains are many times more potent. But this mhdt is romance. I mentioned this before to someone- mhdt orchid is a mid engined porsche cayman. You won’t win any 0-100. But supreme fun to take corners and twisties. What I gained most with mhdt beside stage, bass, naturalness are- soul, emotion and organic presentation. It is more musical than anything I heard on my chain and enhanced the synergy with the rediscoveries even further.
In addition to the dac I added to the digital chain- a lumin U2 mini streamer(soon to be replaced by a diretta bridge), roon sub, etheregen, aftedark clock, upgraded lan etc. One addition that needs special mention is fidelizer pro- a nifty little tool for those who stream via windows machines. It just made everything calmer, details and harmonics were presented amazingly better. If you are using windows, give it a try. So overall On the path to making digital pristine but at the moment very happy with what I have.

Analog- Fomo! Got an entry level project Tt, an old mcCormack phono, bought a few LPs, tried some cartridges. End of story. Not quite. It made me realize how much more one needs to spend on digital to even get close to a entry level analog system. Analog is on the down low at the moment. Digital is what I want to get right first.

Other additions-
power conditioner- onfilter( thanks to FM Sourabh and his research)
Double conversion UPS
Equipment rack

The upgraded components have an excellent synergy and the system sounds sublime at this point. It might sound like I am painting a rosy picture for everything I have settled for but the experience of going through these iterations of mods and upgrades and finally getting all the components to work well with each other is very satisfying. Some of it was advice from seasoned audiophiles, some was sheer luck. Next frontier- scale, live presence, slam- thinking big drivers and horns and tubes. Only limited by my room and pocket.