Accuphase E-350 Integrated Amplifier

[Cnu]

Hi everyone

I have already been named bad in for sale thread, but i would like you people to know the real fact.

I would request every one to tell me, if an amplifier is kept on sale, he has to mention whether supplied accessories like power cord or remote control is available with it or not. He is saying that if amplifier is mentioned then only amplifier is on sale how ridiculous.

I can give my password of HFV to any person who will PM me to check for yourself. Whether in all the dealings made, he has not mentioned about power cord and about remote control associated with the product.

I'm ready to give him amp back as i said him many times, you refund my money & take your amp back from the day 1, i received the amp but he is not replying for that.(And asking me money unpaid, if i have to buy new power cord & remote, i will have to pay for that )

 

[Nikhil]

Cnu,

Its a positive step for you to come forward and come clean on this matter.
Being a second hand sale, you should have checked on your part for all aspects while taking delivery.

In high end amplifiers you normally do not get a power cord. You get a standard wall wort. I might be wrong here but others can comment. This is because in high end equipment people have their own preferences for power cords.

In the best interests of you both, talk this over and resolve the issue. It's unfortunate but sometimes the original owner might feel that after some time taking the amp back might be a risk. Things can get damaged in the time you have it with you. This is just for you to understand the other side.

Still talk and resolve the issue. The price you have agreed to is heavily discounted so do give some allowance to the seller on this. He has also given you very favorable payment terms.

Best Regards.

 

[Cnu]

See Mr Nikhil

If power cord has not come with that product then that should be told before hand and regarding the product condition,the way i took the product basing on his words, the same he would or he can come & take the amp back from home.

regarding getting the power cord, that is mentioned in Accuphase Website, Accessories included (power cord and remote control) as per the brochure downloaded from website.

Instead posting the comment in sale thread, about me, why don't he straight away ask me for that instead asking help from other members by posting in hifivision.

 

[Nikhil]

http://www.accuphase.com/cat/e-350_e.pdf

I agree with you that it is mentioned on the website - for a new purchase.
Once again do try and clear this with the seller amicably.

Best Regards.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Srinivas,

Please see my previous PMs (many of them) and go through the phone conversation recordings. I have always maintained from the day 1 that I didn't have the power cord or the remote. The guess that it might be hiding somewhere in China was a guess I ventured, it wasn't a promise of me finding and giving it to you. I never committed to give you the power cable or remote. See the HFV ad, does it mention any remote, any power cable? See other ads. When someone has an accessory, it is mentioned. If it is not mentioned, it is not included in the deal.

Even if you assumed something I never said/committed: did you inquire about it. Did you ask any questions about the cable and the remote after the ad? No, you didn't. Why? Because you already knew it wasn't included.

Within 2 hours of posting the ad you PMed me: "Dude, reserve it for me". Was that because you didn't know about the deal? You sure knew what was the part of the deal and what wasn't. So please don't make these excuses now.

You talked for over 6 months about this deal. During this period the discussion around power cable and remote came up many times. The first time we were finalizing the price in Dec 2013, I clearly told you:

3 lacs is the minimum price. But since I don't have the power cable and remote with me, I will give you a discount in lieu of that.

Please go through the phone recording again when the price was discussed. I have said the above clearly.

You entered the deal knowing everything clearly. You are just making excuses to hold my dues.

Regarding returning the amp: I'd have considered if you called me immediately after receiving the amp that you were shocked that there is no power cord and remote contrary to your understanding. Despite there not being any fault of mine I'd have considered a refund.

(1) But you never intimated me about receiving the amp.
(2) It took me several PMs and phone calls just get a response from you that you received the amp.
(3) You ceased all communication hoping that I will give up.
(4) You called me names in PM, and told me to stop "annoying you" because I was following up with you on a daily basis for PDC you promised you will send me as soon as you receive the amp.

Despite all this, I'd have considered taking the amp back. But after using the amp for so many days you want me to come to Mehsana, pay you back your money and take the amp back? Are you serious you are expecting that?

Srini, please learn the ways of the world. You just betrayed my trust by holding the payment on silly excuses. You went ahead with this deal after a long thought process, after weighing all your pros and cons. You have spoken to many other FMs with high end gear here. I am sure many of them can see a pattern here.

Your excuses will serve no purpose.

If you are genuinely interested in returning the amp, bring the amp back to Delhi at my door-step. I will examine the amp. If the amp is in exactly the same condition I will take it back. If not I will deduct appropriately before paying you back with your consent. If it is not agreeable to you, you must pay me my dues.

 

[captrajesh]

I hope the issue gets resolved without further washing of dirty linen in public.

In the same context, I had a bitter experience on the forum in the past. The member in question is still active on the forum. Since I was going to the particular city where this FM is residing, considering that he was just getting into the hobby and making his first serious hifi purchase, I had not only hand carried the heavy gear and also heavy accessories to that City but also took them along and ensured that they are connected correctly in his set up lest things get mishandled. I made the mistake of taking just marginal initial payment. It took regular follow up over telephone, PMs and even threats to expose him on the forum to get payment in parts extending to a period of about two years.

Goes on to prove that you just cannot trust strangers; so what if you both are part of a well knit community like HFV.

This incident made me resolve that I should not part with the equipment unless full payment is received. Of course, things are different with some members with whom you have a personal equation.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Goes on to prove that you just cannot trust strangers; so what if you both are part of a well knit community like HFV.

This incident made me resolve that I should not part with the equipment unless full payment is received. Of course, things are different with some members with whom you have a personal equation.

Exactly my sentiments. I have learned my lesson.

 

[Cnu]

Ranjeet

On the day,i recieved the amp (4th june), i immediately called you,4th june,8:47PM, i asked you why the remote/power cord is not being sent with it.You said it, i will search , i have the call log & recording.

i can challenge you , The message you tagged was the false one, that too after the product delivery,(show the Pm with date & time stamps) im asking you to show me any any private message/mail/call recording before the dealing was made( with date & time) in which you have mentioned non availability of power cord and about remote which you said you will bring it from china,

The guess that it might be hiding somewhere in China was a guess I ventured .

, why don't i consider it as commitment, when you said you will bring it from china. why are you showing part of the message, not the full message.

Even in the forum, if someone posts an ad, why shouldn't he mention the non-availability of supplied accessory, if it is not available, then its is definitely to be told , every one should.

I have immediately PM'ed on 9th june which is not months after ( i already said you in PM, i was out of station , dont use this as your excuse) to take back your amp. why didn't you replied on that day of taking back. Even before that, before the amp is delivered,On dtd 2nd june i have said you refund my money & i will pay the total in July'2014, you said you spent it & you will incur a loss.(why didn't you return me back on that day)

This is all bullshit you are doing, Since you have not mentioned, its your mistake, everyone will assume if it is not mentioned then it is available, so its your job to come over here, i'm even ready for 50-50 for shipping or journey expenses & take ur amp back, i don't like all this new sense in this forum, you can listen any long hours here & refund me my full amount

 

[ranjeetrain]

Ranjeet

On the day,i recieved the amp (4th june), i immediately called you,4th june,8:47PM, i asked you why the remote/power cord is not being sent with it.

RanjeetRanjeet

On the day,i recieved the amp (4th june), i immediately called you,4th june,8:47PM, i asked you why the remote/power cord is not being sent with it.You said it, i will search , i have the call log & recording.

i can challenge you , The message you tagged was the false one, that too after the product delivery,(show the Pm with date & time stamps) im asking you to show me any any private message/mail/call recording before the dealing was made( with date & time) in which you have mentioned non availability of power cord and about remote which you said you will bring it from china, why don't i consider it as commitment, when you said you will bring it from china. why are you showing part of the message, not the full message.

Even in the forum, if someone posts an ad, why shouldn't he mention the non-availability of supplied accessory, if it is not available, then its is definitely to be told , every one should.

I have immediately PM'ed on 9th june which is not months after ( i already said you in PM, i was out of station , dont use this as your excuse) to take back your amp. why didn't you replied on that day of taking back. Even before that, before the amp is delivered,On dtd 2nd june i have said you refund my money & i will pay the total in July'2014, you said you spent it & you will incur a loss.(why didn't you return me back on that day)

This is all bullshit you are doing, Since you have not mentioned, its your mistake, everyone will assume if it is not mentioned then it is available, so its your job to come over here, i'm even ready for 50-50 for shipping or journey expenses & take ur amp back, i don't like all this new sense in this forum, you can listen any long hours here & refund me my full amount

Plain lie! You never initiated any communication after receiving the amp. Not even a SMS saying "I got the amp". Please post the recording of the call.

Challenge is not on me; challenge is on you to prove I said I will give the power cable and remote. You are holding my payment. You need to give a justification.

The amp was sent on June 3rd. You confirm receiving it on June 9th. After giving me 5 sleepless nights? I sent many PMs inbetween, asking you if all was well. What kind of person are you to not being able to send a SMS - "I got the amp". Even that was hard for you?

The matter of fact is - you thought if you stop responding to my messages, calls, I will just get tired of it and stop following up. Your rudeness, in PMs, in call everything is just an indication of how rough you have been after getting the amp land up at your door cheaply.

 

[ranjeetrain]

As for returning the amp; I have already mentioned the terms. If fellow FMs think I am being unreasonable, I am willing to change the terms. If not, you owe me 30k. You either pay me my dues or return me the amp.

 

[Cnu]

You refund my full amount & take back your amp back ( if you want to check for the product condition, you can come and listen) & or you give me the remote control & power cord (supplied by accuphase) & i will pay the due.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Srini, please keep the discussion straight. You are modifying the posts long after they have been made unnecessarily complicating things further.

Even before that, before the amp is delivered,On dtd 2nd june i have said you refund my money & i will pay the total in July'2014, you said you spent it & you will incur a loss.(why didn't you return me back on that day)

On 2nd June you said your bank deducted 3 months' EMI together. So you will not be able to pay me another INR 10k that you promised me before delivering the amp. My promise was to give you a maximum credit of INR 20k if you went for the whole set. Because you didn't have any money left with you to pay me (according to what you told me, not my assumption), you wanted me to refund you the money.

The reality is, this was just another pressure tactics by you. You surely knew the guy will not back out of a deal that has been going on for 6 months, something in which so much time, money and effort has gone.

As for my side, I was mentally prepared for a 10-20k credit. You pressed me for another 10k. Considering the fact that I will lose money moving out the fund that I had already invested, I thought it was better to increase the credit amount to 30k rather than suffer a loss and cancel the deal returning the money.

Come clean and admit it that it was a pressure tactic by you to increase the credit amount to INR 30k. You did it fully aware that I will suffer loss if I cancel the deal and have to pay the money back to you.

 

[ranjeetrain]

You refund my full amount & take back your amp back ( if you want to check for the product condition, you can come and listen) & or you give me the remote control & power cord (supplied by accuphase) & i will pay the due.

The terms of the deal were amply clear before you paid me. You owe me INR 30k. And you must pay me.

I said it before and repeating it one final time: If you want to return the amp, you need to bring the amp to my door-step. I will examine the amp and return you your money fully or partially based on the condition.

 

[Cnu]

I have not received amp on 2nd june, infact it was there with you, what pressure i can make up on you on asking my money back. Whatever ,money you have was mine since 24th may, In fact i have said you straight forward that refund my amount since the amount is not fulfilling. (Whats wrong in that) . There is no tactics here, and what pressure are you undergoing, having the product & my money. Writing long texts to build up a wrong situation & try to earn sympathy from others(an absolute waste of time & energy). Say straight forward like i said.

What kind of effort have you put on this deal, in fact after there was no conversation for 6 months , and you have not posted in for sale thread for which you can put an excuse that i had hold for long. Absolutely nothing. no efforts were done

You have not delivered at my door step( which you have mentioned in the forum that you will do but done nothing, absolute Zero). I will not deliver at your door step as its your mistake of not mentioning the power cord/remote.So you must come.

you wanted me to refund you the money.

The reality is, this was just another pressure tactics by you. You surely knew the guy will not back out of a deal that has been going on for 6 months, something in which so much time, money and effort has gone.

 

[srisaikat]

"Accessories not included" is quite important term when you are selling an used or old equipment, it should be mentioned clearly. As the general expectation is, buyer will get all the related stuff (not talking about packing materials) what came inside original package, especially which are related to the operation of the item. Also buyer should make query on that, but an inexperienced buyer may forget that on the excitement of getting some hi-end item. I think 'Cnu' made that mistake, he was too keen to get an "Accuphase". But seller's responsibility was greater there for not mentioning such important piece of information and can not be underplayed or ignored by the mistake of buyer. Now you both have to keep patience and be logical for solving the matter amicably. I hope any senior member as a third party may help them to get out of this crisis.

 

[ranjeetrain]

"Accessories not included" is quite important term when you are selling an used or old equipment, it should be mentioned clearly. As the general expectation is, buyer will get all the related stuff (not talking about packing materials) what came with original package, especially which are related to the operation of the item. Also buyer should make query on that, but an inexperienced buyer may forget that on the excitement of getting some hi-end item. I think 'Cnu' made that mistake, he was too keen to get an "Accuphase". But seller's responsibility was greater there for not mentioning such important piece of information and can not be underplayed or ignored by the mistake of buyer. Now you both have to keep patience and be logical for solving the matter amicably. I hope any senior member as a third party may help them to get out of this crisis.

Hi srisaikat,

Please go through the thread once carefully.

The deal was made in Dec 2013. The issue of power cable and remote came up many times. I marked that in bold so that it doesn't miss anyone's eyes.

As late as April, power cable and remote were discussed. And said the same, I have not been able to find them. Take it that I don't have them. This was said clearly. So the theory that it was a deal made in excitement just doesn't go down the throat. It is more like let me grab this deal cheaply and later it will be completely on me to pay the balance or not.

This deal was not made in a jiffy. It was a well thought out deal, being discussed over 6 months. The buyer did weigh all his options including import thoroughly.

 

[ranjeetrain]

I have not received amp on 2nd june, infact it was there with you, what pressure i can make up on you on asking my money back. Whatever ,money you have was mine since 24th may, In fact i have said you straight forward that refund my amount since the amount is not fulfilling. (Whats wrong in that)

What kind of effort have you put on this deal, in fact after there was no conversation for 6 months , and you have not posted in for sale thread for which you can put an excuse that i had hold for long. Absolutely nothing. no efforts were done

You're kidding right? I took incoming calls and replied to your messages even during international roaming.

Besides I spent dozens of hours on calling you on my own, because call from your end will never have clear voices.

6 months of conversation is nothing? 6 months of PM exchange is nothing?

You have not delivered at my door step( which you have mentioned in the forum that you will do but done nothing, absolute Zero). I will not deliver at your door step as its your mistake of not mentioning the power cord/remote.So you must come.

This was your master-stroke. If this didn't happen I wouldn't have to waste my time on it like this.

The amp was scheduled to be delivered to you on 5th. The train was booked for 4th evening. This is where you played your master-stroke.

On 3rd noon, you called me and requested me to drop the amp off at the railway station. You said you colleague is coming from Haridwar via Delhi and he can carry it safely.

You said - your colleague is coming from Haridwar. And you requested that I hand over the amp to him so that (1) you get the amp one day before, (2) you can save money by canceling train ticket, and (3)Uncertainty over return ticket can be avoided.

You were pushing me to deliver the amp even as you were unable to book proper ticket for me. For your sake I agreed to travel even as return ticket was not confirmed. I was being super kind to you to agree to deliver the amp even as the ticket was not confirmed.

You said - It will be awkward for me to travel without a proper ticket on return journey. You used these arguments to convince me to part with the amp without the PDC. The original plan was to deliver the amp on 5th and take the PDC from you.

You pressed and convinced me to part with the amp without giving the PDC. When asked about PDC, you promised me to courier it asap.

Here was your master stroke that fooled me. I just dropped the guard at the very last moment and was conned. Had I gone to deliver the amp in person I wouldn't part with the amp without taking the PDC. And none of this would happen.

You planned everything. You knew without a proper return ticket my offer to have amp collected will be accepted. I fell for that last trick. How silly!

 

[Santy]

@ranjeet
May be you could post some verifiable proof like screenshot of the PM that you sent or email (not copy paste) or anything else with date stamp, which tells clearly that you have communicated about the unavailable accessories before the deal was struck i.e., before the first payment was made.

@Cnu
Not many will agree to give such a high end gear without taking full payments. I am sure ranjeet would never have a need to make more money by hiding a fact. Appears to be a communication gap.

Also, it is pointless, IMHO, to discuss about other issues here, except for one thing; whether or not, the buyer was made clear about the missing remote and cord before purchase.

A verifiable proof with date stamp (that cannot be tampered), could give a better clarity. I wish you guys maintain your cool throughout and try to resolve this amicably.

This incident calls for a new rule on HFV classifieds that the seller must specify the availability and condition of accessories that came in the original box.

 

[Nikhil]

cnu,

I think it is clear that there is no remote and cable available with Ranjeet - pushing him for that will not go anywhere. If you are convinced that this is a deal breaker - return the amp and close the chapter.

On the other hand - you have with you a really high quality amp which would have been very difficult to get if you think of new price, customs etc. I don't think it will be easy for you to get another at this same price - even if you are not getting the remote and cable. Time for you to decide.

There is no need to get further into unpleasant exchanges. This is a place where like minded people gather for the sake of audio. Ranjeet has given you a very good deal with some misunderstandings. Close the chapter with good intentions as soon as possible.

Best Regards.

 

[ranjeetrain]

@ranjeet
May be you could post some verifiable proof like screenshot of the PM that you sent or email (not copy paste) or anything else with date stamp, which tells clearly that you have communicated about the unavailable accessories before the deal was struck i.e., before the first payment was made.

Santy, the buyer himself has mentioned that he did knew I didn't have accessories. If it is to be proved I promised to send accessories, he has to prove it, not me.