Apple Lossless audio from iPad or Apple TV

sam_007

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Nov 6, 2012
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Hi,

I am really in confusion on how I can get Apple lossless and Hi-Res audio. This is my current setup for stereo:

Source :
Apple music from Android phone and apple music from Amazon fire stick using Alexa from my TV

DAC and Amp:
Schiit multibit DAC, Marantx PM6006

BS:
Mission QX2

My observation till now:
I have started listening apple music from my android phone(which cost around 15K) using type C port from phone to USB port in DAC. The audio quality was good(but not great) even when I turned on "lossless" in my apple music setup. Few songs that I played from youtube(from fire stick/Airtel xstream) seems to be sounded better when the same song played from apple music from my phone(note: fire stick from tv connected to DAC using digital co-axial cable, xstream connected to DAC using digital optical cable). Now I have started thinking how I can play apple music from TV(Co axial input to DAC) and done the setup with Alexa and which works fine.
The apple music coming from TV using Alexa is now much better than the sound from the phone. Now, do I need to curse my android phone/type C to type B connector?
When playing apple music from Alexa, I can't find the lossless symbol anywhere in the TV screen nor I can find any button from when I can enable the lossless feature. I can't see bit rate from my DAC.

These changes in sound quality inclined me to go for any apple product assuming it will enhance the sound quality.
Now I have two options Apple TV(which can provide co-axial input to my DAC but lacks hi-res audio option) and iPad(For hi-Res audio and multipurpose activity). My wife and kid inclined towards iPad for obvious reasons. I am not inclined towards iPad as I am not sure how it will sound if I will connect it to USB port of my DAC, even though it has hi-res.

My doubts:
1. DO I need to go for Apple TV and hope apple will upgrade its TV OS to include hi-res audio?
2. DO I need to go for iPad? Does any one has this combination of iPad and schiit DAC and how it sounds?
3. How I can enable lossless on apple music from Alexa?

FMs, need your valuable inputs/suggestions here, will surely help me.
 
You cannot get bit-perfect from music app on the following devices
  • android (this includes all android and android based devices - firestick, nvidia streamer etc)
  • macbook pro, mac mini, macbook air running Big Sur and higher. But bit perfect will not happen unless you change the sampling rate using the midi app for every song that has a different sampling rate of the song than what is set in the midi app. The music app on macbooks are real piece of trash. To know the sampling rate, click the lossless icon like in the image below.
  • apple tv will resample everything to 48 kHz.
The only options are
  • Take the analog audio out from ipad, iphone (which have them) and have the latest music app. If apple has marked the model as obsolete then you cannot use them. All you have to do is check if the music app in your model has option to turn on losless.
  • Connecting a dac to your ipad, iphone using the apple camera connection kit.
  • You can get bit perfect using airplay only when the music playing has been sampled at 44.1 kHz. So if you have the old airport express or have an AVR that supportrs airplay then you can use this option.
1654524333140.png
 
Last edited:
Hi,

I am really in confusion on how I can get Apple lossless and Hi-Res audio. This is my current setup for stereo:

Source :
Apple music from Android phone and apple music from Amazon fire stick using Alexa from my TV

DAC and Amp:
Schiit multibit DAC, Marantx PM6006

BS:
Mission QX2

My observation till now:
I have started listening apple music from my android phone(which cost around 15K) using type C port from phone to USB port in DAC. The audio quality was good(but not great) even when I turned on "lossless" in my apple music setup. Few songs that I played from youtube(from fire stick/Airtel xstream) seems to be sounded better when the same song played from apple music from my phone(note: fire stick from tv connected to DAC using digital co-axial cable, xstream connected to DAC using digital optical cable). Now I have started thinking how I can play apple music from TV(Co axial input to DAC) and done the setup with Alexa and which works fine.
The apple music coming from TV using Alexa is now much better than the sound from the phone. Now, do I need to curse my android phone/type C to type B connector?
When playing apple music from Alexa, I can't find the lossless symbol anywhere in the TV screen nor I can find any button from when I can enable the lossless feature. I can't see bit rate from my DAC.

These changes in sound quality inclined me to go for any apple product assuming it will enhance the sound quality.
Now I have two options Apple TV(which can provide co-axial input to my DAC but lacks hi-res audio option) and iPad(For hi-Res audio and multipurpose activity). My wife and kid inclined towards iPad for obvious reasons. I am not inclined towards iPad as I am not sure how it will sound if I will connect it to USB port of my DAC, even though it has hi-res.

My doubts:
1. DO I need to go for Apple TV and hope apple will upgrade its TV OS to include hi-res audio?
2. DO I need to go for iPad? Does any one has this combination of iPad and schiit DAC and how it sounds?
3. How I can enable lossless on apple music from Alexa?

FMs, need your valuable inputs/suggestions here, will surely help me.
Listen to your wife and kids !
 
Hi,

I am really in confusion on how I can get Apple lossless and Hi-Res audio. This is my current setup for stereo:

Source :
Apple music from Android phone and apple music from Amazon fire stick using Alexa from my TV

DAC and Amp:
Schiit multibit DAC, Marantx PM6006

BS:
Mission QX2

My observation till now:
I have started listening apple music from my android phone(which cost around 15K) using type C port from phone to USB port in DAC. The audio quality was good(but not great) even when I turned on "lossless" in my apple music setup. Few songs that I played from youtube(from fire stick/Airtel xstream) seems to be sounded better when the same song played from apple music from my phone(note: fire stick from tv connected to DAC using digital co-axial cable, xstream connected to DAC using digital optical cable). Now I have started thinking how I can play apple music from TV(Co axial input to DAC) and done the setup with Alexa and which works fine.
The apple music coming from TV using Alexa is now much better than the sound from the phone. Now, do I need to curse my android phone/type C to type B connector?
When playing apple music from Alexa, I can't find the lossless symbol anywhere in the TV screen nor I can find any button from when I can enable the lossless feature. I can't see bit rate from my DAC.

These changes in sound quality inclined me to go for any apple product assuming it will enhance the sound quality.
Now I have two options Apple TV(which can provide co-axial input to my DAC but lacks hi-res audio option) and iPad(For hi-Res audio and multipurpose activity). My wife and kid inclined towards iPad for obvious reasons. I am not inclined towards iPad as I am not sure how it will sound if I will connect it to USB port of my DAC, even though it has hi-res.

My doubts:
1. DO I need to go for Apple TV and hope apple will upgrade its TV OS to include hi-res audio?
2. DO I need to go for iPad? Does any one has this combination of iPad and schiit DAC and how it sounds?
3. How I can enable lossless on apple music from Alexa?

FMs, need your valuable inputs/suggestions here, will surely help me.
Working with apple isn't easy man not sure y they hv such rigid eco system. Still better than before and the only 1 thing good they've done ever with apple music now half way through.
Nonetheless you can work around:

* Option 2 with the iPhone/ipad u can connect it via lightening>usb>shiit dac (Works 💯%)
* A friend of mine uses his Android>usb dac via USB cable (works for him, One plus/LG)
* Before u pull the trigger, try with any of ur other Android phones or a friend's iPhone/iPad if it works good for you
* *On Android>audio quality>cellular streaming>also set to hi res lossless

**Note: There are some settings ull hv to check on Android/iOS sub menu more than the main menu also.

For Android & iOS 👇
 

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Hi,

I am really in confusion on how I can get Apple lossless and Hi-Res audio. This is my current setup for stereo:

Source :
Apple music from Android phone and apple music from Amazon fire stick using Alexa from my TV

DAC and Amp:
Schiit multibit DAC, Marantx PM6006

BS:
Mission QX2

My observation till now:
I have started listening apple music from my android phone(which cost around 15K) using type C port from phone to USB port in DAC. The audio quality was good(but not great) even when I turned on "lossless" in my apple music setup. Few songs that I played from youtube(from fire stick/Airtel xstream) seems to be sounded better when the same song played from apple music from my phone(note: fire stick from tv connected to DAC using digital co-axial cable, xstream connected to DAC using digital optical cable). Now I have started thinking how I can play apple music from TV(Co axial input to DAC) and done the setup with Alexa and which works fine.
The apple music coming from TV using Alexa is now much better than the sound from the phone. Now, do I need to curse my android phone/type C to type B connector?
When playing apple music from Alexa, I can't find the lossless symbol anywhere in the TV screen nor I can find any button from when I can enable the lossless feature. I can't see bit rate from my DAC.

These changes in sound quality inclined me to go for any apple product assuming it will enhance the sound quality.
Now I have two options Apple TV(which can provide co-axial input to my DAC but lacks hi-res audio option) and iPad(For hi-Res audio and multipurpose activity). My wife and kid inclined towards iPad for obvious reasons. I am not inclined towards iPad as I am not sure how it will sound if I will connect it to USB port of my DAC, even though it has hi-res.

My doubts:
1. DO I need to go for Apple TV and hope apple will upgrade its TV OS to include hi-res audio?
2. DO I need to go for iPad? Does any one has this combination of iPad and schiit DAC and how it sounds?
3. How I can enable lossless on apple music from Alexa?

FMs, need your valuable inputs/suggestions here, will surely help me.
I too would suggest listening to your wife and kid. :)
I myself use two of my iPads ( one quite old generation) and get bit perfect high res from both using the Apple USB3 Camera adapter , using the USB In of DAC.
Loses out on flexibility , true , but for sound this is optimum. And streaming is my third choice of source anyway.
 
Hi,

I am really in confusion on how I can get Apple lossless and Hi-Res audio. This is my current setup for stereo:

Source :
Apple music from Android phone and apple music from Amazon fire stick using Alexa from my TV

DAC and Amp:
Schiit multibit DAC, Marantx PM6006

BS:
Mission QX2

My observation till now:
I have started listening apple music from my android phone(which cost around 15K) using type C port from phone to USB port in DAC. The audio quality was good(but not great) even when I turned on "lossless" in my apple music setup. Few songs that I played from youtube(from fire stick/Airtel xstream) seems to be sounded better when the same song played from apple music from my phone(note: fire stick from tv connected to DAC using digital co-axial cable, xstream connected to DAC using digital optical cable). Now I have started thinking how I can play apple music from TV(Co axial input to DAC) and done the setup with Alexa and which works fine.
The apple music coming from TV using Alexa is now much better than the sound from the phone. Now, do I need to curse my android phone/type C to type B connector?
When playing apple music from Alexa, I can't find the lossless symbol anywhere in the TV screen nor I can find any button from when I can enable the lossless feature. I can't see bit rate from my DAC.

These changes in sound quality inclined me to go for any apple product assuming it will enhance the sound quality.
Now I have two options Apple TV(which can provide co-axial input to my DAC but lacks hi-res audio option) and iPad(For hi-Res audio and multipurpose activity). My wife and kid inclined towards iPad for obvious reasons. I am not inclined towards iPad as I am not sure how it will sound if I will connect it to USB port of my DAC, even though it has hi-res.

My doubts:
1. DO I need to go for Apple TV and hope apple will upgrade its TV OS to include hi-res audio?
2. DO I need to go for iPad? Does any one has this combination of iPad and schiit DAC and how it sounds?
3. How I can enable lossless on apple music from Alexa?

FMs, need your valuable inputs/suggestions here, will surely help me.
Ipad will work fine. I use a 500 Rs adapter from Amazon to connect my audioquest dragonfly to both iphone and ipad. Both will give you hi res.
 
Ipad will work fine. I use a 500 Rs adapter from Amazon to connect my audioquest dragonfly to both iphone and ipad. Both will give you hi res.
OP has a Schiit Multibit DAC , so he will need a Apple USB 3 adapter plus a good quality USB cable to connect iPad to DAC.
 
If it is not easy to differentiate between a 320 kbps stream and a 16/24 -bit stream in most systems, it would be even harder to differentiate between a 24-bit 44.1 kHz and 24-bit 192 Khz, IMHO. The main difference between 16-bit and 24-bit is the dynamic range and it is possible to differentiate between a 16-bit and 24-bit stream in terms of dynamic range. Especially when you listen to Classical music. But the difference between 44.1 kHz and 192 kHz? IMO, No. So don't sweat much and get an RPI-based airplay streamer and use airplay to stream to the RPI. 24 bit 48 kHz is more than enough, IMO.
 
You cannot get bit-perfect from music app on the following devices
  • android (this includes all android and android based devices - firestick, nvidia streamer etc)
  • macbook pro, mac mini, macbook air running Big Sur and higher. But bit perfect will not happen unless you change the sampling rate using the midi app for every song that has a different sampling rate of the song than what is set in the midi app. The music app on macbooks are real piece of trash. To know the sampling rate, click the lossless icon like in the image below.
  • apple tv will resample everything to 48 kHz.
The only options are
  • Take the analog audio out from ipad, iphone (which have them) and have the latest music app. If apple has marked the model as obsolete then you cannot use them. All you have to do is check if the music app in your model has option to turn on losless.
  • Connecting a dac to your ipad, iphone using the apple camera connection kit.
  • You can get bit perfect using airplay only when the music playing has been sampled at 44.1 kHz. So if you have the old airport express or have an AVR that supportrs airplay then you can use this option.
View attachment 69798
Thanks. This information will help. I don't have an AVR to check the sample rate, need to find some other ways to check what (44.1 kHz or more) I am getting from my fire stick.
When you mentioned "apple tv will resample everything to 48 kHz(you mean which is more than 48 kHz)", is it 16 bits or 24 bits?
Working with apple isn't easy man not sure y they hv such rigid eco system. Still better than before and the only 1 thing good they've done ever with apple music now half way through.
Nonetheless you can work around:

* Option 2 with the iPhone/ipad u can connect it via lightening>usb>shiit dac (Works 💯%)
* A friend of mine uses his Android>usb dac via USB cable (works for him, One plus/LG)
* Before u pull the trigger, try with any of ur other Android phones or a friend's iPhone/iPad if it works good for you
* *On Android>audio quality>cellular streaming>also set to hi res lossless

**Note: There are some settings ull hv to check on Android/iOS sub menu more than the main menu also.

For Android & iOS 👇
Yes, you are right, it is not easy to dive into apple eco system. Connecting with my android phone(realMe) to USB port of DAC is not much pleasing. Not sure if the phone is incapable or the usb port of my DAC. Bit hard here but yes, need to hire one iPhone/iPad or a good quality android phone before I go for something.
I too would suggest listening to your wife and kid. :)
I myself use two of my iPads ( one quite old generation) and get bit perfect high res from both using the Apple USB3 Camera adapter , using the USB In of DAC.
Loses out on flexibility , true , but for sound this is optimum. And streaming is my third choice of source anyway.

Hi @Bloom@83 , good to know that you had experience with iPad and I believe you have a Schiit Modi 2 Uber(I think modi multibit is placed above it). Have you tested this combination of iPad + camera adapter + usb port of Schiit Modi 2 Uber. If yes then what is your observation on the sound quality from usb port of your schiit DAC when hi-Res is turned on or off ? Have ever tested apple music from any android phone with this DAC?
If it is not easy to differentiate between a 320 kbps stream and a 16/24 -bit stream in most systems, it would be even harder to differentiate between a 24-bit 44.1 kHz and 24-bit 192 Khz, IMHO. The main difference between 16-bit and 24-bit is the dynamic range and it is possible to differentiate between a 16-bit and 24-bit stream in terms of dynamic range. Especially when you listen to Classical music. But the difference between 44.1 kHz and 192 kHz? IMO, No. So don't sweat much and get an RPI-based airplay streamer and use airplay to stream to the RPI. 24 bit 48 kHz is more than enough, IMO.

Hi @ajuvignesh , read few article and it was was mentioned mostly that there is no diff between 24-bit 44.1 kHz and 24-bit 192 Khz. I think Apple TV supports 44.1 kHz(not sure 16 bits or 24 bits), so, is it good to go for ATV?
Why you think RPI-based airplay streamer is better than Apple tv? How to setup RPI-based airplay streamer, any link?

One genuine question, will there be any difference in sound quality when we are using USB input vs Co-axial input in a DAC? or the source matters here?
 
Hi @Bloom@83 , good to know that you had experience with iPad and I believe you have a Schiit Modi 2 Uber(I think modi multibit is placed above it). Have you tested this combination of iPad + camera adapter + usb port of Schiit Modi 2 Uber. If yes then what is your observation on the sound quality from usb port of your schiit DAC when hi-Res is turned on or off ? Have ever tested apple music from any android phone with this DAC?
Yes , my streaming setup is ipad >>apple USB3 lightning adapter >>USB cable (a good one which costed over 4K ) >> Topping E50 DAC.
I no longer use the Modi Uber in my setup.

Partly agree with @ajuvignesh about higher sampling rate or even higher bit rate not providing any noticeable sonic upgrade over standard 16/44 especially for contemporary albums where the mastering is itself average.
This isn’t true for some well recorded and mastered albums specially in jazz or acoustic genre where higher resolution streaming does sound better than 16/44.

Overall , for genre that I listen to , I find CDs played on my NAD CD player sounding better than corresponding 24/192 files streamed bit perfect over Apple Music.
I have never tried Tidal or Qobuz- general opinion is they sound better than Apple Music lossless , especially Qobuz.

For very casual listening when I don’t bother to play CDs or do the LP ritual (my first choice of source ) - I find Apple Music lossless to be … acceptable.
 
Yes , my streaming setup is ipad >>apple USB3 lightning adapter >>USB cable (a good one which costed over 4K ) >> Topping E50 DAC.
I no longer use the Modi Uber in my setup.

Partly agree with @ajuvignesh about higher sampling rate or even higher bit rate not providing any noticeable sonic upgrade over standard 16/44 especially for contemporary albums where the mastering is itself average.
This isn’t true for some well recorded and mastered albums specially in jazz or acoustic genre where higher resolution streaming does sound better than 16/44.

Overall , for genre that I listen to , I find CDs played on my NAD CD player sounding better than corresponding 24/192 files streamed bit perfect over Apple Music.
I have never tried Tidal or Qobuz- general opinion is they sound better than Apple Music lossless , especially Qobuz.

For very casual listening when I don’t bother to play CDs or do the LP ritual (my first choice of source ) - I find Apple Music lossless to be … acceptable.
I've used both TIDAL & Apple music.
Considering availability & price Apple music is pretty cheap & acceptable.
Unfortunately TIDAL is not available yet so tried a friend's Argentina account and it was fantastic! Not all Hindi songs were there but for everything else was good.

Apple music has a good library now and recently started adding remastered versions they sound great.
 
Thanks. This information will help. I don't have an AVR to check the sample rate, need to find some other ways to check what (44.1 kHz or more) I am getting from my fire stick.
When you mentioned "apple tv will resample everything to 48 kHz(you mean which is more than 48 kHz)", is it 16 bits or 24 bits?
It will resample 44.1 kHz also to 48 kHz. And you will hardly find any music with sampling rate of 48 kHz. Only the first generation of apple TV left the 44.1 kHz alone.


See the answer from apple itself
Apple TV 4K currently doesn’t support Hi-Res Lossless (sample rates greater than 48 kHz).
 
Hi @ajuvignesh , read few article and it was was mentioned mostly that there is no diff between 24-bit 44.1 kHz and 24-bit 192 Khz. I think Apple TV supports 44.1 kHz(not sure 16 bits or 24 bits), so, is it good to go for ATV?
Why you think RPI-based airplay streamer is better than Apple tv? How to setup RPI-based airplay streamer, any link?

One genuine question, will there be any difference in sound quality when we are using USB input vs Co-axial input in a DAC? or the source matters here?
With RPI based streamers, it is convenient because you get to use your phone to control the entire playback. Not sure how RPi based streamers compare against apple tvs.
You can try moode audio or volumio on rpi for airplay.
With usb you can go upto the level of dsd playback. Not sure if there is a difference between usb and coaxial.
 
Thanks. This information will help. I don't have an AVR to check the sample rate, need to find some other ways to check what (44.1 kHz or more) I am getting from my fire stick.
When you mentioned "apple tv will resample everything to 48 kHz(you mean which is more than 48 kHz)", is it 16 bits or 24 bits?
You will not get Hi-Res audio from firestick/Alexa app, there is no option to enable it. There is no issue with apple music, it's Alexa app that is not supported, I tried with tidal/apple music, I think they don't even sample in 44.1 formats, it should be below that.

If you want to stick with apple music/Hi-Res, then iPad with apple camera connection kit.
The other way is to try to get CCA and stream hi-Res from apple music the cheapest way to stream, CCA must be hard to find.
The best way is to use Allo usbridge/signature and use tidal connect--> you will love this.

For me, Tidal/Quboz is the best streaming service, I find Spotify is better than apple music.
 
You will not get Hi-Res audio from firestick/Alexa app, there is no option to enable it. There is no issue with apple music, it's Alexa app that is not supported, I tried with tidal/apple music, I think they don't even sample in 44.1 formats, it should be below that.

If you want to stick with apple music/Hi-Res, then iPad with apple camera connection kit.
The other way is to try to get CCA and stream hi-Res from apple music the cheapest way to stream, CCA must be hard to find.
The best way is to use Allo usbridge/signature and use tidal connect--> you will love this.

For me, Tidal/Quboz is the best streaming service, I find Spotify is better than apple music.
Maybe u've not used apple music correctly. There are some pre settings u need to configure in apple music on both iOS/Android before you get hi res lossless.
 
Ok got the link above, not sure how it compares to Apple lightening to USB adapter which sells for 2.9k, for audio playback? Is it reliable?
 
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