ATC SCM 11 Speakers

[Nikhil]

I've been auditioning speakers a bit recently. One of my candidates are the ATC SCM 11 monitors. I had a chance to listen to a brand new pair at the Hyderabad Dealer on Friday. While the sound was good it was really hard on the ears about 15-20 mins into the audition. I know that the ATCs are known to require at least 200 hrs break in but the dealer said 50 hrs is plenty.

Price for SCM 11 is Rs 1.13L

Here's the interesting part ...

I am also aware that there are a few speakers available at Rs 65K - 75K in the used market. These are about 5-6 months old speakers. I am just curious about this because similarly priced Dynaudio bookshelf are available at close to the 75K figure on the used market. The real question is that's a whopping 40% off list price for just 4-6 months use. I'm starting to wonder if there is a number of these monitor speakers being flogged in the used market after probably misguided purchases or heavy use in the pro studios.

There are also some strange listings showing up on Olx and Quickr for SCM 50 and 100s which are $$$ speakers! Not sure what to make of them but it sure seems like a container load of ATC speakers fell of a bus somewhere.

 

[Kittu]

Nikhil,

Dev from bass-treble has ATC SCM 19 for sale. He was quoting less than a lakh I believe.

You can see his contact details here.

Pathos ---Logos Integrated amplifier - Coimbatore - Electronics - Ramanathapuram - new technology information

 

[mpw]

nikk,

if you audition the dynaudio focus 160 please post your thoughts.

mpw

 

[spirovious]

FM Santosh has it.He is happy with its performance.

 

[square_wave]

Just a heads up that there are quite a few charlatans masquerading as used hifi gear resellers in south India. Some are real gentlemen and known to many of us but many are rogues. They import thrashed stuff from Asian countries and repair them in India. This is a big racket and it is mostly based out of Chennai. They specialize in making gear look shiny and new. The gear work but will not be upto spec and you will never know how old they are. Anything that you see looks too good to be true is surely too good to be true .

 

[reignofchaos]

It could potentially be because this speaker is very hard to match. It is close to the epitome of neutrality and will throw out garbage if you feed it garbage. To really shine, the speaker probably needs electronics that are a few times more expensive than the speaker itself. It is the same deal with dynaudio.

 

[sidvee]

Price for SCM 11 is Rs 1.13L

That sounds about right. US price is about 1lac.

The real question is that's a whopping 40% off list price for just 4-6 months use.

Not sure if you are aware of the saying, the day you drive out of the dealers showroom your car would be worth 70% of its value. Based on stuff I have bought and sold on A'gon a roughly similar rule holds for Audio eqpt. Why would I try to save 10-15% on an audio equipment (especially the higher end ones) if I can get new with papers and warranty? So 40% off at 4-6 mos is not really surprising. That is about what it would be on a site like Audiogon. That being said, buying used from an on-line dealer in India is fraught with risk, buy with caution. OTOH buying from a forum member is a much safer method and highly recommended.
Good luck,
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Nikhil]

Just a heads up that there are quite a few charlatans masquerading as used hifi gear resellers in south India. Some are real gentlemen and known to many of us but many are rogues. They import thrashed stuff from Asian countries and repair them in India. This is a big racket and it is mostly based out of Chennai. They specialize in making gear look shiny and new. The gear work but will not be upto spec and you will never know how old they are. Anything that you see looks too good to be true is surely too good to be true .

Its a concern when buying used gear. A couple of red flags went off when I started doing some online searches. My original intent was to get more info on the SCM 11s but I started getting a feeling that this speaker was on the "hot" list.

 

[Nikhil]

It could potentially be because this speaker is very hard to match. It is close to the epitome of neutrality and will throw out garbage if you feed it garbage. To really shine, the speaker probably needs electronics that are a few times more expensive than the speaker itself. It is the same deal with dynaudio.

No doubt about it. Cost differences aside its one reason I'm looking to the SCM11 over the SCM19 at this point in time.

But as a general point I can see how people could buy them and get burned. Its a tough speaker to drive and seems to want more and more power to shine. The long break in time is also another factor. They are hard on the ears when straight out of the box. I almost left my audition with a headache!

 

[reignofchaos]

My experience auditioning Abhi's (Dr Bass) SCM40 is that they were very very susceptible to placement, toe in and also at what angle from the floor the tweeter was firing. All these things can make or break a setup. Dr Bass can give more insight on all of these things as he was the one who was using the speaker. All I can say is that once an ATC is setup and tuned properly, there's very little else that can match them.

If you get an ATC, you'd have to spend a lot of time on tweaks and equipment matching.

 

[Nikhil]

nikk,

if you audition the dynaudio focus 160 please post your thoughts.

mpw

The Dynaudio distributor is right here in Hyderabad but he's not been very easy to contact. Some who did say it's a pretty bad experience. No demo period. Buy first then do whatever you want.

 

[corElement]

From what I've noticed most speakers rated 86db and below need a good chunk of power to open up. But High end speakers rated 86db and below need not just a good chunk of power but also good QUALITY power.

Some power hungry bookshelves which come to mind are

Usher be718
Dynaudio contour & Confidence
Jamo's current concert 803 series
Kef reference 201/2 & 201/1
ATC scm11 and 19

And the Harbeth P3ESR....83.5db..... Have fun feeding this hungry beast whoever gets it

The base power requirement of these bookshelves are almost twice as much as other 89-91db rated bookshelves such as my Jamo Concert 8's which at 90db were relatively easily driven by a 3 watt tube amp. That's one of the reasons why I wanted a high quality bookshelf speaker which wasnt 86 or below in sensitivity.

Because I know I wouldn't be able to afford the kind of high quality power amplification required for sub 86db sensitivity speakers.

 

[Dr.Bass]

I've been auditioning speakers a bit recently. One of my candidates are the ATC SCM 11 monitors. I had a chance to listen to a brand new pair at the Hyderabad Dealer on Friday. While the sound was good it was really hard on the ears about 15-20 mins into the audition. I know that the ATCs are known to require at least 200 hrs break in but the dealer said 50 hrs is plenty.

Price for SCM 11 is Rs 1.13L

Here's the interesting part ...

I am also aware that there are a few speakers available at Rs 65K - 75K in the used market. These are about 5-6 months old speakers. I am just curious about this because similarly priced Dynaudio bookshelf are available at close to the 75K figure on the used market. The real question is that's a whopping 40% off list price for just 4-6 months use. I'm starting to wonder if there is a number of these monitor speakers being flogged in the used market after probably misguided purchases or heavy use in the pro studios.

There are also some strange listings showing up on Olx and Quickr for SCM 50 and 100s which are $$$ speakers! Not sure what to make of them but it sure seems like a container load of ATC speakers fell of a bus somewhere.

Nikhil, an ATC SCM11 can be had brand new with papers and warranty from a dealer for roughly about 95k. So 75k is hardly a deal, unless you are dead sure it is less than a year old and is well maintained. It is good to buy second hand ATC because that you will save you from the painful burn in process. We are talking about 500 hours, not 200 hours. In case of SCM19 it takes close to 1000 hours.

Secondly, yes an ATC needs clean power, with good current. Power fed to it should be of high quality in the first place and at least 75-100 watts for SCM11 to make it sing. As you may know, such specification is not easily found even if you are ready to pay twice the price of this speaker. There are many 200k amplifiers which are miserable.

Setting up an ATC is not very difficult after you know their basic requirements but is important else it doesnt make sense to buy it. If you want to buy a plug n play speaker then you are looking at casual hifi. One thing I can assure is ATC doesnt need anything special to sound good, unless something is seriously wrong in your electronics, setup or room it will never fail to make great music. There are some speakers which have specific requirements because it is tuned to sound right only that way, e.g using only a certain kind of cables, placing x distance from wall, using only certain variety of amps, sitting at that special height etc etc. ATC doesnt have any such requirements. Just get the basics right.

 

[Nikhil]

Nikhil, an ATC SCM11 can be had brand new with papers and warranty from a dealer for roughly about 95k. So 75k is hardly a deal, unless you are dead sure it is less than a year old and is well maintained. It is good to buy second hand ATC because that you will save you from the painful burn in process. We are talking about 500 hours, not 200 hours. In case of SCM19 it takes close to 1000 hours.

...

Secondly, yes an ATC needs clean power, with good current. Power fed to it should be of high quality in the first place and at least 75-100 watts for .

Thanks for the feedback. You hit the nail on the head - one "attraction" of getting a used pair is the burn in as well.

What is your opinion on the matching of ATC with Acoustic Portrait? square_wave had suggested both ATC and Dynaudio. Did you ever have the chance to pair AP gear with ATC speakers? Thanks again for your help.

 

[square_wave]

My suggestion is to get an home audition of ATC and Dynaudio in your home. I do not know anyone who is surrently using the cpa 3 model with these speakers.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Thanks for the feedback. You hit the nail on the head - one "attraction" of getting a used pair is the burn in as well.

What is your opinion on the matching of ATC with Acoustic Portrait? square_wave had suggested both ATC and Dynaudio. Did you ever have the chance to pair AP gear with ATC speakers? Thanks again for your help.

The 200 watt AP amps should match well with ATC. I havent heard them together but I can imagine they should go well.

 

[Nikhil]

My suggestion is to get an home audition of ATC and Dynaudio in your home. I do not know anyone who is surrently using the cpa 3 model with these speakers.

The ATC dealer has agreed to a home demo. I was to bring them over for the weekend but had to postpone as something came up. Fortunately he is located very close to my place. Interacting with him was quite pleasant and he was very helpful seeing that I was a genuine audio lover.

The Dynaudio dealer isn't taking phone calls at the moment! :sad:

 

[Nikhil]

I just spoke to a friend who happens to know the Dynaudio dealer here. He has promised to talk to him and try and get some info for me. Lets hope something comes of it ... maybe a Dynaudio speaker comes into consideration if I can get a demo organized.

 

[Nikhil]

From what I've noticed most speakers rated 86db and below need a good chunk of power to open up. But High end speakers rated 86db and below need not just a good chunk of power but also good QUALITY power.

thanks corElement. I am planning to pair these with my AP Pre Power which has the power and the quality in my opinion. However one can never be sure and that's why I'd like to have a home demo if possible.

 

[apk]

I just spoke to a friend who happens to know the Dynaudio dealer here. He has promised to talk to him and try and get some info for me. Lets hope something comes of it ... maybe a Dynaudio speaker comes into consideration if I can get a demo organized.

Hi Nikhil,
In the Dynaudio range, you could also check out the new DM 2/7. The DM series is a new series that sacrifices looks and finish for better components and lower price. US price for DM 2/7 is approx $1000.

In case you talk to the Dynaudio dealer, can you ask him the price for this model?

Best,
APK