(This Thread Originally was in "What Should I Buy" Category, which I think was a mistake. With Admin. permission I am shifting the thread here.)
Expectation & Reality
I want to share my experience with all my fellow fm especially with Audio-gd DAC owners in India. If you bought any audio-gd DAC related product (at least 18 months ago) reading high praises on various forum, there is a possibility that you might be disappointed or frustrated with the apparent reality like myself.
But here is my story, how my experience changed within last 3 months..
Many of us believe, if we get a cheap transporter (like DVD players within 4/5k) and pair it with a decent standalone DAC, then we would get audiophile grade sound. But from my own experience I found somehow it is not true. Though with simple logic it should have worked as we thought. Whatever reason is there, the fact is digital output of cheap CD/DVD player is so inferior that even a decent standalone DAC cannot straight that out and so analog out of that outboard DAC if not worse but as bad as the analog out of the player itself.
I think this is the prime reason why many people think "all DAC sounds almost same" or "spending money behind DAC is almost a waste, it is better to go for a good amp & speaker".
With recent experience and experiment I can tell, spending money behind DAC is as important as behind Amp and Speaker. Without a very decent player or DAC there is a bottleneck behind the amp and so the music can't be restored to it's full potential.
Now my story, first I bought a Audio-gd FUN (which is now discontinued & have a Wolfson wm8741 inside). For who do not know, the "FUN" is a DAC cum preamp cum headphone amp. I tried "FUN" with various cheap DVD players (Philips, LG, Pioneer) with coax output.
Now for 1 year I tried so hard to find any difference between analog output of DVD players connecting directly to inte-amp and coax output of DVD player to DAC then DAC analog output to inte-amp. I failed to hear any difference at all.
I also tried with following configuration.....
My audio-gd "FUN" have line-input, so from DVD players analog out straight connected to Fun line in and at the same time I connected the coax out of the same player to the "FUN" to hear with the headphones (Etymotic ER-4S and Grado SR80). There is button on "Fun" to switch between inputs. So the headphone amp section of "Fun" getting two inputs at a time, one from DVD's internal DAC (through DVD's line out) and other from it's own DAC (which getting digital output from the coax of DVD. This time also there is no difference I found through headphones.
Point to be noted that on every occasion I set up "digital audio output" as "RAW" of the DVD players to get uncompromised digital signal. So I immediately concluded it might be a hoax either to use "standalone DAC" or "Audio-gd Fun" is itself is waste of money.
So I wrote about it (couple of posting, now I feel shame because of them) on Head-fi forum and also wrote to Mr.Kingwa of Audio-gd about my experience. Most of the reply I found that I might not have that Ear to differentiate them or may be my cable inventories was not that great.
Later I also connected my laptop using Foobar and ASIO with the USB (B) input of "FUN". It was better but not that great.
After that many time I thought to sell the "FUN". But my experience tends to change when I bought the Marantz NA7004 about 10/12 months ago. That time my Laptop got out of order, so I get the Marantz NA7004 to hear the digital files on storages. The Marantz analog out was great than the laptop-foober-Asio-Fun combo.
Now I started my experiments once again. Digital source drive or Music Server streamed through Marantz analog out and at same time the digital optical out (this time I choose optical over coax because I lost my faith on coax from my previous experiences) of Marantz to "FUN", then used the analog out of "FUN". It was time to compare the DAC capability of Marantz NA7004 vs. Audio-gd FUN.
(CS4398 implementation of Marantz vs. WM8741 implementation of FUN)
First Smile
Yes, for the first time I heard little difference, the "FUN" analog is little more relaxing and feeling less fatigue than that of "Marantz NA7004". So I started to use that config. (Marantz - > optical - > Fun) for couple of months.
Then one day I decided to try "Marantz -> coax -> Fun". Just for a experiment, I have no great expectation. But believe me, this time "FUN" analog out was clearly better than that of during "optical". Now I can tell what is called airy sound, what is breathing and space of various instruments and vocals. I can hear my music without any fatigue hour after hour. Clearly the COAX is better than the OPTICAL in case of making connection between Marantz NA7004 and Audio-gd FUN.
To tell you the truth, I spent some sleepless nights to enjoy that air and space but in the morning I was pretty much fresh without any tiredness. Now I regain my lost trust on standalone DAC. I can say for sure that not every source or transport have great digital out you can rely upon, even between various digital output of same device might sound different. In my case I found Marantz have superior spdif output than the cheapo DVD players available in commercial market. And between two digital output, coax was found to be better than optical. These are facts based upon my observation, I have no clue to give any explanation.
At this point I want to thank "HiFi Mart" for selling decent (but budget) quality interconnect cables of "DAC". I found them more revealing and dynamic than the cables (Rocketfish and monster) that I imported from USA. DAC cables have real VFM.
The END Story------ (USB-32)hyeah:
After gaining the faith back on "FUN" I recently started to visit the "Audio-gd" and other websites to know about async. usb dac or dac module which have jitter immune solution and some of them also offer i2s signal solution which is the best way to get audio signal from pc or laptop over USB.
So made my decision to get "USB-32" (VIA Envy VT1731) module from Audio-gd to replace the old USB module of "FUN" (which was TE7022 with Adapt. transfer). For those who do not know the difference between Async. transfer and Adapt. transfer, the Async. transfer system has master clock for reclocking the signal, so jitter immunity is far greater. But adapt. transfer system is slave to the pc, hence no reclocking, so it is vulnerable to jitter. My knowledge is limited about i2s, but from various article I came to know that i2s is less conversion and more like direct talk to the DAC chip itself, so it is greater upgrade compared to old adapt. usb module.
After 8 days of order I got the USB-32 module (Which is most upgraded solution according to Audio-gd for using USB of PC/Laptop to connect with DAC to enjoy high resolution music). According to instruction sent on email I replaced the old module TE7022 with new USB-32.
You need little soldering experience (in case of FUN you just have to short a register) and screw-driver to do the whole job. Now the return I found was a "game changing experience". Till date music was a like compound consists of bass, treble of some instruments and vocal.
Though I experienced some space and breath from my last config. (Marantz - optical - Fun), but with USB-32 module the improvement is like make a journey from 2D to 3D. A 3D space/ field of sound created with real arrangement, there is no question of any bass or treble, it is real sound like one attending a live presentation without any mic arrangement. All instruments taken their own space and vocalist is leading the live arrangement keeping the feeling of distinct separateness. Whole arrangement is so live! No overlapping between the instruments. I just forgot those words like "tight bass" or "boomy" or "extended high" or "high rolled off". It is like what is real is real, one have to take as it sounds. Every indistinct sound and nuisance which I never heard before got unhidden and there is no question of digital harshness. It is real and analog sounding. Remember all this was sounded through headphone out of FUN. It was magical intimate moments with music collection.
So my advise to all Audio-gd owner, if you have not got yet, just upgrade the USB module with "USB-32" (it is just $82), you will be rewarded an extra dimension without any 3D glass. Congratulation and thanks to Mr. Kingwa of Audio-Gd for such pioneer design and implementation. :clapping:
Now I am feeling downgrade with my main system (Marantz NA7004 - Denon PMA 1510 - Polk Rti-A7) when using them without the "FUN" especially missing the "Audio-gd USB-32". As my laptop had gone dead and my pc is on another floor, so I have no way to test the new USB-32 module of "FUN" DAC with the main system and which is far advanced than the SPDIF inputs of the same. Now after installation of 'USB-32' module inside FUN the order of superiority between digital inputs is like this,
"USB 32 > COAX > OPTICAL" with headphones of course.
Expectation & Reality
I want to share my experience with all my fellow fm especially with Audio-gd DAC owners in India. If you bought any audio-gd DAC related product (at least 18 months ago) reading high praises on various forum, there is a possibility that you might be disappointed or frustrated with the apparent reality like myself.
But here is my story, how my experience changed within last 3 months..
Many of us believe, if we get a cheap transporter (like DVD players within 4/5k) and pair it with a decent standalone DAC, then we would get audiophile grade sound. But from my own experience I found somehow it is not true. Though with simple logic it should have worked as we thought. Whatever reason is there, the fact is digital output of cheap CD/DVD player is so inferior that even a decent standalone DAC cannot straight that out and so analog out of that outboard DAC if not worse but as bad as the analog out of the player itself.
I think this is the prime reason why many people think "all DAC sounds almost same" or "spending money behind DAC is almost a waste, it is better to go for a good amp & speaker".
With recent experience and experiment I can tell, spending money behind DAC is as important as behind Amp and Speaker. Without a very decent player or DAC there is a bottleneck behind the amp and so the music can't be restored to it's full potential.
Now my story, first I bought a Audio-gd FUN (which is now discontinued & have a Wolfson wm8741 inside). For who do not know, the "FUN" is a DAC cum preamp cum headphone amp. I tried "FUN" with various cheap DVD players (Philips, LG, Pioneer) with coax output.
Now for 1 year I tried so hard to find any difference between analog output of DVD players connecting directly to inte-amp and coax output of DVD player to DAC then DAC analog output to inte-amp. I failed to hear any difference at all.
I also tried with following configuration.....
My audio-gd "FUN" have line-input, so from DVD players analog out straight connected to Fun line in and at the same time I connected the coax out of the same player to the "FUN" to hear with the headphones (Etymotic ER-4S and Grado SR80). There is button on "Fun" to switch between inputs. So the headphone amp section of "Fun" getting two inputs at a time, one from DVD's internal DAC (through DVD's line out) and other from it's own DAC (which getting digital output from the coax of DVD. This time also there is no difference I found through headphones.
Point to be noted that on every occasion I set up "digital audio output" as "RAW" of the DVD players to get uncompromised digital signal. So I immediately concluded it might be a hoax either to use "standalone DAC" or "Audio-gd Fun" is itself is waste of money.
So I wrote about it (couple of posting, now I feel shame because of them) on Head-fi forum and also wrote to Mr.Kingwa of Audio-gd about my experience. Most of the reply I found that I might not have that Ear to differentiate them or may be my cable inventories was not that great.
Later I also connected my laptop using Foobar and ASIO with the USB (B) input of "FUN". It was better but not that great.
After that many time I thought to sell the "FUN". But my experience tends to change when I bought the Marantz NA7004 about 10/12 months ago. That time my Laptop got out of order, so I get the Marantz NA7004 to hear the digital files on storages. The Marantz analog out was great than the laptop-foober-Asio-Fun combo.
Now I started my experiments once again. Digital source drive or Music Server streamed through Marantz analog out and at same time the digital optical out (this time I choose optical over coax because I lost my faith on coax from my previous experiences) of Marantz to "FUN", then used the analog out of "FUN". It was time to compare the DAC capability of Marantz NA7004 vs. Audio-gd FUN.
(CS4398 implementation of Marantz vs. WM8741 implementation of FUN)
First Smile
Yes, for the first time I heard little difference, the "FUN" analog is little more relaxing and feeling less fatigue than that of "Marantz NA7004". So I started to use that config. (Marantz - > optical - > Fun) for couple of months.
Then one day I decided to try "Marantz -> coax -> Fun". Just for a experiment, I have no great expectation. But believe me, this time "FUN" analog out was clearly better than that of during "optical". Now I can tell what is called airy sound, what is breathing and space of various instruments and vocals. I can hear my music without any fatigue hour after hour. Clearly the COAX is better than the OPTICAL in case of making connection between Marantz NA7004 and Audio-gd FUN.
To tell you the truth, I spent some sleepless nights to enjoy that air and space but in the morning I was pretty much fresh without any tiredness. Now I regain my lost trust on standalone DAC. I can say for sure that not every source or transport have great digital out you can rely upon, even between various digital output of same device might sound different. In my case I found Marantz have superior spdif output than the cheapo DVD players available in commercial market. And between two digital output, coax was found to be better than optical. These are facts based upon my observation, I have no clue to give any explanation.
At this point I want to thank "HiFi Mart" for selling decent (but budget) quality interconnect cables of "DAC". I found them more revealing and dynamic than the cables (Rocketfish and monster) that I imported from USA. DAC cables have real VFM.
The END Story------ (USB-32)
hyeah:After gaining the faith back on "FUN" I recently started to visit the "Audio-gd" and other websites to know about async. usb dac or dac module which have jitter immune solution and some of them also offer i2s signal solution which is the best way to get audio signal from pc or laptop over USB.
So made my decision to get "USB-32" (VIA Envy VT1731) module from Audio-gd to replace the old USB module of "FUN" (which was TE7022 with Adapt. transfer). For those who do not know the difference between Async. transfer and Adapt. transfer, the Async. transfer system has master clock for reclocking the signal, so jitter immunity is far greater. But adapt. transfer system is slave to the pc, hence no reclocking, so it is vulnerable to jitter. My knowledge is limited about i2s, but from various article I came to know that i2s is less conversion and more like direct talk to the DAC chip itself, so it is greater upgrade compared to old adapt. usb module.
After 8 days of order I got the USB-32 module (Which is most upgraded solution according to Audio-gd for using USB of PC/Laptop to connect with DAC to enjoy high resolution music). According to instruction sent on email I replaced the old module TE7022 with new USB-32.
You need little soldering experience (in case of FUN you just have to short a register) and screw-driver to do the whole job. Now the return I found was a "game changing experience". Till date music was a like compound consists of bass, treble of some instruments and vocal.
Though I experienced some space and breath from my last config. (Marantz - optical - Fun), but with USB-32 module the improvement is like make a journey from 2D to 3D. A 3D space/ field of sound created with real arrangement, there is no question of any bass or treble, it is real sound like one attending a live presentation without any mic arrangement. All instruments taken their own space and vocalist is leading the live arrangement keeping the feeling of distinct separateness. Whole arrangement is so live! No overlapping between the instruments. I just forgot those words like "tight bass" or "boomy" or "extended high" or "high rolled off". It is like what is real is real, one have to take as it sounds. Every indistinct sound and nuisance which I never heard before got unhidden and there is no question of digital harshness. It is real and analog sounding. Remember all this was sounded through headphone out of FUN. It was magical intimate moments with music collection.
So my advise to all Audio-gd owner, if you have not got yet, just upgrade the USB module with "USB-32" (it is just $82), you will be rewarded an extra dimension without any 3D glass. Congratulation and thanks to Mr. Kingwa of Audio-Gd for such pioneer design and implementation. :clapping:
Now I am feeling downgrade with my main system (Marantz NA7004 - Denon PMA 1510 - Polk Rti-A7) when using them without the "FUN" especially missing the "Audio-gd USB-32". As my laptop had gone dead and my pc is on another floor, so I have no way to test the new USB-32 module of "FUN" DAC with the main system and which is far advanced than the SPDIF inputs of the same. Now after installation of 'USB-32' module inside FUN the order of superiority between digital inputs is like this,
"USB 32 > COAX > OPTICAL" with headphones of course.
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