B&W 805 Matrix or Thiel CS 1.5/2.4?

asliarun

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I recently listened to several speakers in Chicago area, including several B&W floorstanders and bookshelves, Thiel 3.7 floorstanders, and SCS4 bookshelf. My wife and I really liked the Thiel sound, and were quite impressed by the Thiel SCS4 - it has a very "open" sound and doesn't sound like a box at all. Voices and instrumentals are very sharp, clear, and it really sounds like a live performance. However, budgetary constraints persuaded us to look at used speakers.

We listened to two used speakers - B&W 805 Matrix and Thiel CS 1.5. The Thiel CS1.5 performed really really well for a small floorstander, solid sound, about 95% as open sounding (sorry for not being more descriptive) as the SCS4. The B&W 805 Matrix bookshelf speakers sounded surprisingly nice as well (much better than the other B&W bookshelves and floorstanders) - I was quite impressed by them. Since the shop was closing, we could only listen to a few songs, a jazz song by Jacintha, Time by Floyd, and a hard rock song (i forget which). All the equipment was paired with a 60W Rotel integrated amp and Rotel CD player. The high end Thiels were paired with a Bryston pre-power combo.

Sorry for rambling - my question is, which speaker should I go for - the Thiel CS1.5 or the B&W 805 Matrix? I listen to a lot of rock, alternative, grunge, but also listen to instrumentals and cafe/lounge easy listening kind of music. My wife listens to more of the softer stuff - soft rock, cafe style music. Considering the diverse music taste, I would like to put it this way - which speaker would be better for listening to Pink Floyd for an extended period of time?

I liked the CS1.5 but I am concerned that it might be too "sharp" or "bright", especially for extended listening periods. I didn't listen to the 805s in great detail but was quite impressed with what I heard - it seemed to be not as sharp and crystal clear as the CS1.5 but was quite open sounding. Can anyone please help? Although I was initially quite taken with the Thiels, I think the 805 might be better all-rounders for different kinds of music.

Is there any other speaker I should consider as well? The challenge is that finding a good used speaker of my choice is difficult, and auditioning it beforehand is even more difficult. The shop also had used Thiel CS2.4 and 3.5 (i think) - they are a little large for my apartment living room (12x20), but should I consider it as well?

I currently have a Topping TP20 amp but am thinking of upgrading to an Odyssey Khartago (although I have never listened to it). I plan to use a Squeezebox Classic as source, and perhaps a CD player sometime in the future.

I would really appreciate and help or guidance from the forum members.

Many thanks in advance!
Arun
 
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what pricing are you getting?
Also - try some good amps in that showroom also that are in your budget. Get one if you really like.
 
I think madbullram was also after these speakers but then he changed his mind and got something else that sounded equally good to him.
 
what pricing are you getting?
Also - try some good amps in that showroom also that are in your budget. Get one if you really like.

Thanks for the reply, anm. I am getting the Thiel CS1.5 for about $800. I think the price of B&W 805 Matrix is about the same as well - $800. Is this a good price? The CS2.4 was higher priced - about $1400 or so, but it might be slightly large for my apartment.

I will also try some used amps at the store. Do you also know if the Odyssey Khartago will pair with either of these speakers?
 
Sorry asli, I really don't know about the amp much, but I heard good things "about" it. If you are buying bookshelves, I would advice you to carry your speakers to some dealer who does carry the khartago.

I think price is good, but how is the condition, whether repaired etc? I would have asked you to carry the other one for me but your hands are already full :)
 
Will you be buying and using in India or US?
Sarge, i will be buying and using the speakers in US. I'll be in Chicago area for a couple of years.

Sorry asli, I really don't know about the amp much, but I heard good things "about" it. If you are buying bookshelves, I would advice you to carry your speakers to some dealer who does carry the khartago.

I think price is good, but how is the condition, whether repaired etc? I would have asked you to carry the other one for me but your hands are already full :)

Thanks, anm. Both the 805 and CS1.5 were in reasonably good shape. I didn't see any obvious dents or wear and tear - both are in black ash finish. I didn't ask the dealer if the speakers were repaired or not.

I currently commute by train (Chicago has a good network), so carrying my speakers would be a challenge.

Have you heard the B&W 805 Matrix or heard about them? They seem to be an old discontinued model but sound quite nice, much better than the lower end series new models. Personally, I am currently thinking that the 805 would be a safer bet than the Thiels.

However, I haven't really heard a lot of speakers, so I am looking for any advice I can get from senior members. Plus, I don't even know if what/how I have interpreted these speakers is necessarily correct.
 
I can't comment on the speakers since I haven't heard them but I have heard the Khartago on a few occasions at ARN, paired to the Odyssey Syren. It was my first choice amp and only a slice of luck and a really good price made me opt for the Audio Analogue instead. Think of the Odyssey amps as a poor man's Symphonic Line.

Ping Sridhar for more details.
 
Sarge, i will be buying and using the speakers in US. I'll be in Chicago area for a couple of years.

If you are comfortable with ID brands, you can read about Ascend Acoustics and Aperion. They have great return policies, so you can try them in your home and decide if you like them. Aperion even pays for shipping both ways, so there is really no risk. With Ascend you do have to pay shipping.

The Sierra-1 speakers of Ascend are around your $800 budget and have got great reviews. They also offer a NrT tweeter upgrade (you have to call them for that):

Sierra-1 vs. Sierra-1 NrT - Ascend Acoustics Community

If you can consider increasing your budget a bit, SalkSound SongBird speakers will be pretty hard to beat in $1300 range:

SongBird - home

This thread has more discussion about these brands:
http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/18908-axiom-m60-monitor-audio-rx6.html

In short, my order of preference would be:
1) Salk SongBird (if you can stretch your budget)
2) Ascend Sierra-1
3) Aperion Verus Forte Tower or Intimus 5T
 
I would suggest atleast a Odyssey Stratos Extreme Stereo if you are going to pair with a Thiel or B&W

You will get many used on sale on audiogon and audiocircle. But then again you will have to spend on a pre amp. Also do keep in mind that you will need to convert these amps to 230V incase you are thinking of getting them back to India
 
Odyssey audio is not sold through a dealer network in the US. As Rikhav mentioned, for those speakers, I would recommend a Stratos plus at least or an Extreme. If you cant afford either of those, then go for an all out Khartago glass ceiling upgrade or its equivalent. You will need to call Klaus Bunge of Odyssey Audio in the US and order it direct. Both the speakers will work just fine with the amp.

cheers
 
give the 805 another listen. these are legendary speakers. I never liked the rotels, though a lot of people swear by them, so try these with some other amps also. Many people consider the matrix series to be the last good B&W series and a lot better than the N Or S series. I personally have never heard the matrix series.
 
Thanks for the reply, anm. I am getting the Thiel CS1.5 for about $800. I think the price of B&W 805 Matrix is about the same as well - $800. Is this a good price? The CS2.4 was higher priced - about $1400 or so, but it might be slightly large for my apartment.

I will also try some used amps at the store. Do you also know if the Odyssey Khartago will pair with either of these speakers?

The B&W Matrix 805 is the best in that lot. GO FOR IT. The price is fair. Try and get the stands for them as well... or else you can speak to Magma on the forum and he'll build you a pair. Also, the speakers will really flourish with good quality amplification. judging them on a rotel integrated amp will only give you a hint of what is possible with these speakers.... there is a quad poweramp going for sale in delhi. it is fully modded and will be a great match for these speakers!
 
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Having had the B&W N805 for a while, I would definitely recommend the 805 Matrix. It is a great speaker. For amps. I would recommend Odyssey stratos extreme which I had paired successfully with the N805, but the N805's sang even with 50watt push pull tube amps. So depending on your room size, provided it is not too large say 200-240 sq.ft, even tube amps. will work with these. Regarding sources to buy pre owned - you can't beat audiogon. You will find almost all good amps there including odyssey. So that is a good place to start.
All the best.
Cheers,
Sid
 
I would suggest atleast a Odyssey Stratos Extreme Stereo if you are going to pair with a Thiel or B&W

You will get many used on sale on audiogon and audiocircle. But then again you will have to spend on a pre amp. Also do keep in mind that you will need to convert these amps to 230V incase you are thinking of getting them back to India

Thanks for the amplifier suggestions, Rikhav. I will see if I can get some used amp options. Yes, 230V will be a problem when I move back to India, but this will apply to any amp I buy here, so I will live with the future option of either selling this amp or getting a voltage transformer for the amp.
 
Odyssey audio is not sold through a dealer network in the US. As Rikhav mentioned, for those speakers, I would recommend a Stratos plus at least or an Extreme. If you cant afford either of those, then go for an all out Khartago glass ceiling upgrade or its equivalent. You will need to call Klaus Bunge of Odyssey Audio in the US and order it direct. Both the speakers will work just fine with the amp.

cheers

Thanks for the advice, Sridhar. I will call Klaus as you suggest.
 
give the 805 another listen. these are legendary speakers. I never liked the rotels, though a lot of people swear by them, so try these with some other amps also. Many people consider the matrix series to be the last good B&W series and a lot better than the N Or S series. I personally have never heard the matrix series.

The B&W Matrix 805 is the best in that lot. GO FOR IT. The price is fair. Try and get the stands for them as well... or else you can speak to Magma on the forum and he'll build you a pair. Also, the speakers will really flourish with good quality amplification. judging them on a rotel integrated amp will only give you a hint of what is possible with these speakers.... there is a quad poweramp going for sale in delhi. it is fully modded and will be a great match for these speakers!

Having had the B&W N805 for a while, I would definitely recommend the 805 Matrix. It is a great speaker. For amps. I would recommend Odyssey stratos extreme which I had paired successfully with the N805, but the N805's sang even with 50watt push pull tube amps. So depending on your room size, provided it is not too large say 200-240 sq.ft, even tube amps. will work with these. Regarding sources to buy pre owned - you can't beat audiogon. You will find almost all good amps there including odyssey. So that is a good place to start.
All the best.
Cheers,
Sid

Wow, many thanks for your suggestions, doors666, malvai, and sidvee. I really appreciate all the help that all the forum members are providing me, and that too so quickly!

I am definitely going to listen to the 805 Matrix again. I was quite taken with them even when I heard them briefly. The dealer had this neat switching mechanism where he was able to instantly switch speakers back and forth so I was able to compare the 805 to other lower end series of B&W as well as a couple of Thiels and a Phase Tech PC1.5 bookshelf (which looked well built but I didn't like the bass). The 805 was clearly superior to most of the other speakers I heard on Saturday. The Thiels had a different quality, but I got the sense that they are suitable for a specific genre of music.

I might have made a mistake earlier- I think the quoted price is closer to $1000 than $800.
 
Is there a reason you are only looking at these 2 brands? If you are still in Chicago area, I could provide some dealers info where you can listen to additional brands.

Based on what you have mentioend so far, for your listening experiences, room area and setup, I would go for a Thiel. I would call them neutral compared to B&Ws though the latter is also a good choice.

One thing with Thiels, they shine with lots of power - even monoblocks are a good option with Thiels. I have seen some of these go down to 1 ohm impedence when playing deep bass notes.

Also the 1.5 is a fairly older model. I would look at 2.3 or a 3.5 at a minimum. These are a much bigger upgrade over the 1.5s.

I would add atleast a 200 watts amp to get the best out of them.




I recently listened to several speakers in Chicago area, including several B&W floorstanders and bookshelves, Thiel 3.7 floorstanders, and SCS4 bookshelf. My wife and I really liked the Thiel sound, and were quite impressed by the Thiel SCS4 - it has a very "open" sound and doesn't sound like a box at all. Voices and instrumentals are very sharp, clear, and it really sounds like a live performance. However, budgetary constraints persuaded us to look at used speakers.

We listened to two used speakers - B&W 805 Matrix and Thiel CS 1.5. The Thiel CS1.5 performed really really well for a small floorstander, solid sound, about 95% as open sounding (sorry for not being more descriptive) as the SCS4. The B&W 805 Matrix bookshelf speakers sounded surprisingly nice as well (much better than the other B&W bookshelves and floorstanders) - I was quite impressed by them. Since the shop was closing, we could only listen to a few songs, a jazz song by Jacintha, Time by Floyd, and a hard rock song (i forget which). All the equipment was paired with a 60W Rotel integrated amp and Rotel CD player. The high end Thiels were paired with a Bryston pre-power combo.

Sorry for rambling - my question is, which speaker should I go for - the Thiel CS1.5 or the B&W 805 Matrix? I listen to a lot of rock, alternative, grunge, but also listen to instrumentals and cafe/lounge easy listening kind of music. My wife listens to more of the softer stuff - soft rock, cafe style music. Considering the diverse music taste, I would like to put it this way - which speaker would be better for listening to Pink Floyd for an extended period of time?

I liked the CS1.5 but I am concerned that it might be too "sharp" or "bright", especially for extended listening periods. I didn't listen to the 805s in great detail but was quite impressed with what I heard - it seemed to be not as sharp and crystal clear as the CS1.5 but was quite open sounding. Can anyone please help? Although I was initially quite taken with the Thiels, I think the 805 might be better all-rounders for different kinds of music.

Is there any other speaker I should consider as well? The challenge is that finding a good used speaker of my choice is difficult, and auditioning it beforehand is even more difficult. The shop also had used Thiel CS2.4 and 3.5 (i think) - they are a little large for my apartment living room (12x20), but should I consider it as well?

I currently have a Topping TP20 amp but am thinking of upgrading to an Odyssey Khartago (although I have never listened to it). I plan to use a Squeezebox Classic as source, and perhaps a CD player sometime in the future.

I would really appreciate and help or guidance from the forum members.

Many thanks in advance!
Arun
 
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