Balanced vs Unbalanced Interconnects

[captrajesh]

A nice read for beginners

 

[anuragn]

Thanks captain.
It cleared my fundas on ground loop for the first time.

 

[captrajesh]

Nice to know that you found it useful.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

This is great!

Not so much because of learning anything more (I did) about balanced/unbalanced, but because, as so often happens on the internet, one thing leads (no pun intended ) to another and ...I now know where I'll be buying cables from in the future!

Audioholics articles section led me to Blue Jeans Cable. I've hear of both, but never followed up the Blue Jeans. Maybe I assumed (easy enough in this crazy hifi word) that they just made cables out of denim and charged vast amounts of money for them :lol:. Nothing could be further from the truth. They completely eschew the whole audiophile cable thing, and assemble non-exotic leads from pro quality measured and tested cable. And the prices are pretty reasonable.

The other articles at Audioholic are well worth a look. The articles section at Blue Jeans also explains a lot of techie stuff very nicely, while saying how and why they do what they do. Whilst this one is video-heavy, it has the methodology covered.

"Broadcast Quality"-- What does it Mean, and Why is it Good?

I don't do TV and video, so hdmi isn't of much concern to me, but there is a lot of good stuff about it on the site, and their digital video cables should certainly be considered, especially by those doing HT wiring.

Great site, great-looking company. Thanks, Rajesh, for nudging me in that direction

 

[captrajesh]

Great site, great-looking company. Thanks, Rajesh, for nudging me in that direction

I'm glad you found it impressive.

They completely eschew the whole audiophile cable thing, and assemble non-exotic leads from pro quality measured and tested cable.

Well, they do some exotic things too. Check this out: Ultrasonic Welded Speaker Cable -- Blue Jeans Cable

Definitely exotic.

 

[apk]

Nice article....thanks for sharing this.

Best,
APK

 

[reubensm]

Thanks captrajesh, very useful article.

Here's another one from my archives (favourites list) on xlr connectors, maybe useful particularly for those using the Behringer DEQ2496 in hi-fi setups.

NU9N Transmitter eSSB, SSB, Hi-fi, Mid-fi, Lo-fi Audio Processing

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Well, they do some exotic things too. Check this out: Ultrasonic Welded Speaker Cable -- Blue Jeans Cable

Definitely exotic.

Actually, it comes well within my reasonable-technology bounds. For all my cable agnosticism, I do believe in good connectors, and a good cable/connector join. Ideally, one that cannot be affected by oxidation or movement. So this looks like a winner! Best thing: it is an affordable winner :clapping:

Yes, if I was recabling, or cabling a new project, this one would be included

Here's another one from my archives (favourites list) on xlr connectors...

Wow, there is a lot of wide-ranging information there, some of it way beyond my understanding. I'll have to skip some bits, but will do my best to take it in.

 

[arj]

About the shielding which has been suggested, my experience has been the opposite. Shielding in any form usually removes details on those minute cues which create what is called Atmosphere or "Air". the only place where one cannot avoid it is around Toneram phono cables due to the low level signals.

Also balanced cables definitely are great but bring about benefits only when the equipment itself is designed for Balanced else you are paying double the cost than needed . i only remember of Electrocompaniet which does this but i do know there are others as well.

Please read this article as well Lukasz Fikus of lampizator fame.
Ballancedornot

When do we really want balanced operation ?

Well, the answer is not easy.
If the cable must be long, lets imagine a CD source in one corner of the room, near the listener, and amps close to speakers - then we need circa 10 m of interconnect. We should use balanced interconnect.
If we need to plug the interconnect in HOT mode without blowing the amp and speakers - XLR is the only option. RCA has design error which causes the hot co connect before ground and this causes huge impulse if plugged in play mode.

For normal mode of hi fi use - we have the products stacked in the rack, the cables are short, and we don't plug cables in play mode. So the need of balanced is questionable.

Some of the best products in existence, like Audio Note, Kondo, Air Tight, Verdier, Jadis, etc. - are mostly single ended.

Knowing the balanced construction - we can assume that for equally well made products - the Balanced must cost double. The mode of operation makes sense, it promises good quality, but is it better than SE if SE could cost twice as much per phase ?
That is the key. A 2000 Eu Balanced amp has the construction for 500 Eu per phase. Does the balancing improve it as much to beat the 2000 Eu single ended amp which phase costs 1000 Eu ?

If you ask me - SE is the way to go. I mean - good SE.

A word of warning - having XLR sockets does NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN that the product is balanced. Many SE amps have balanced inputs which immediately get summed inside for SE and amplified as SE and then split again by opamp to XLR. So check before you buy.

 

[hydra]

I think these Neutrik RCA connectors can be connected HOT. They are designed so they make ground before signal contact.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

arj, That's an excellent quote, and no, we don't need balanced interconnects for things that are are connected by mere inches of cable. I think that Kanwar might have mentioned triple as the cost factor when implementing balanced i/o on an amp. There's no advantage in using balanced cable unless it is carrying balanced signals. It could become one of those hifi fads, except that it not expensive enough .

It just so happens that I use balanced cables for my PC audio. Just because the interface has balanced out, the speakers have balanced in, and, well... there it is. Might be tempted to use it in the event of ever having a system with genuine balanced in/out throughout --- but that is theoretical, and would never be a requirement.

hydra, clever plugs. Never thought about that.

 

[Staxxx]

I have a pair of expensive balanced XLR-terminated cables that I found from my limited auditions to be best suited to my previous system and taste. If anyone wants to compare (single ended v balanced or other balanced cables), on a suitable system, just for fun do drop me a PM. They are by a company called Analysis Plus and the model is their almost top-of-the-line Golden Oval.
As they have not been in use in my current system, I was thinking of selling them or alternatively melting them down for their gold content Just kidding...

 

[captrajesh]

Nice article....thanks for sharing this.

Thanks captrajesh, very useful article.

Here's another one from my archives (favourites list) on xlr connectors, maybe useful particularly for those using the Behringer DEQ2496 in hi-fi setups.

NU9N Transmitter eSSB, SSB, Hi-fi, Mid-fi, Lo-fi Audio Processing

I'm Glad that you guys found it useful. @reubensm, thank you for the article; it is quite exhaustive so, bookmarking it for later read.

Please read this article as well Lukasz Fikus of lampizator fame. Ballancedornot

I found the below content in the same article which has piqued my interest.

Some transports and DACs have the SP/dif signal available in balanced form - the AES/EBU XLR. Is it good?

Well, ther sp/dif signal is generated in respective chip as single ended. To make it AES/EBU we need to add unnecessary ballancing transformer and to make "artificial balancing". This is sound degradation. But, at least, this signal can be sent on long distance, much longer than th maximum 1,2 m allowed by SP/DIF.
So if we work in the studio - AES/EBU is not optional.

The receiver part of the DAC has receiver chip with AES/EBY as a ready option (Rxn, Rxp inputs). So the AES/EBU does not require second unbalancing transformer, it is indifferent to standard.

Concerning the cable - EX/EBU is a much better option, with better RFI immunity, better common mode rejection, less influence of cable quality, better plugs, better shielding, everything.

All things being equal, If I had my way I would use AES/EBU rather than sp/dif but making damn sure, that my balancing transformer in the transport is top notch , good to 30 MHz. That's a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It's all rather confusing... as I understand it, AES/EBU is the pro version, and S/PDIF is the domestic version of very similar protocols. This is the sort of thing that I have to Google every time I think about it, partly because the techie stiff does not stay in my brain easily, and partly because I have no practical need to remember it.

If I ever end up owning a pair of Genelecs from the series with digital input Chennai HFV 2012 meet...

All that was done with XLR, but, at one point, Clifford connected an ordinary domestic CD player.

 

[asliarun]

arj, That's an excellent quote, and no, we don't need balanced interconnects for things that are are connected by mere inches of cable. I think that Kanwar might have mentioned triple as the cost factor when implementing balanced i/o on an amp. There's no advantage in using balanced cable unless it is carrying balanced signals. It could become one of those hifi fads, except that it not expensive enough .

It just so happens that I use balanced cables for my PC audio. Just because the interface has balanced out, the speakers have balanced in, and, well... there it is. Might be tempted to use it in the event of ever having a system with genuine balanced in/out throughout --- but that is theoretical, and would never be a requirement.

hydra, clever plugs. Never thought about that.

I think the hypex ncore module comes with balanced by default. I have always wondered if balanced would make sense for a home theater setup where the cabling can get real long. Emotiva and rogue make some balanced amps from what I remember that are in the affordable category.

I have blue jeans ic and have been quite happy with it. I only regret i did not get speaker cables from them too. I suspect that the benefit of ultrasonic welding would outweigh the benefit of a more expensive cable that is not welded. A friend of mine uses it and suggested it. For other cables, people also suggest monoprice which has a similar philosophy.