Basic question on Amplifiers - Can one use an AVR and a Stereo amp together?

dannyarcher

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Hello all,
I'm new to all the world of Hi-Fi. Thanks to many FMs' help, I got good info on how to setup a 5.1.

Now, I have a basic question w.r.t amplifiers:
I have a Denon AV Receiver -- works amazing for movies. Not so great for music.
How do I improve the quality of music given my setup?
There are a lot of terms like pre-amp, power-amp, stereo amp etc. I don't think I understand these very much.

What component should I look to, to significantly improve the music quality of my system, while still using my Denon AVR for movies?
(I know that if the AVR had pre-outs, things would've been easier. However, is that the only way?)

Can you please shed some light on this?
Thank you.
 
Well I can’t answer all your questions but some I can. First of all yes a stereo amp can be connected to an avr that has pre-outs. Just use a rca cable and inter-connect the avr from its pre-out to the stereo amp rca inputs. And regarding your confusion with power amp, As the name says it is a power amplifier which can only receive the audio signal and send it to the speaker along with power. It cannot do any audio processing.
 
First of all yes a stereo amp can be connected to an avr that has pre-outs. Just use a rca cable and inter-connect the avr from its pre-out to the stereo amp rca inputs.

If an avr has pre-out(s), that o/p signal level is essentially volume / tone controlled which is totally different from a standard line out signal which is independent of volume / tone controls ! A pre-out signal from one amp/avr can only be sent to a main-in of a stereo integrated amp / power amp /avr/ powered sub not otherwise. If the avr has standard line-out then that output can safely be connected to the rca line-in of an integrated amp. The point is if a stereo integrated does not have a main-in to accept a pre-out signal and only has standard line-in then the line-in cannot and should not be connected to pre-out of another avr/amp coz if you did you would have one pre-amp loading another pre-amp i.e. two pre-amps working together which is dangerous for the second amp and the equipment connected to the second amp i.e. speakers !
 
Hi,

Welcome to the forum. Simply put there's no way you can have best of both worlds. Even if the AVR has pre outs you need a power amp or IA with HT bypass function to drive the front speakers. IA with HT bypass feature are difficult to find and expensive, I mean they may be more than 50K if I am not wrong.

Even then, tuning the setup for optimal results in both cases would be tricky. You need to fiddle with the volume controls a lot more than needed.

Directly connecting the pre outs from the AVR to a normal IA will lead to more distortion since the signal will be processed twice. This aspect I don't understand fully but pundits have discouraged me from doing that and when tried the results didn't satisfy me.

If you have space and money best option would be having two setups. Else only thing we can do is to buy an AVR which is good at both. Such AVRs are costing more than a lakh now.

To deal with this, I bought a powerful pre-owned AVR (150 watt continuous) and settled down with the same. I use a DAC to listen to CDs and also connect my DTH to the DAC. When you are listen to music from DTH I switch to the DAC source which improves the SQ although in stereo. Hope others can give a better ideas, I also tried to workaround this problem but couldn't find a viable and sensible solution.
 
If an avr has pre-out(s), that o/p signal level is essentially volume / tone controlled which is totally different from a standard line out signal which is independent of volume / tone controls ! A pre-out signal from one amp/avr can only be sent to a main-in of a stereo integrated amp / power amp /avr/ powered sub not otherwise. If the avr has standard line-out then that output can safely be connected to the rca line-in of an integrated amp. The point is if a stereo integrated does not have a main-in to accept a pre-out signal and only has standard line-in then the line-in cannot and should not be connected to pre-out of another avr/amp coz if you did you would have one pre-amp loading another pre-amp i.e. two pre-amps working together which is dangerous for the second amp and the equipment connected to the second amp i.e. speakers !
I am little lost with your explanation and don’t follow. I didn’t say two pre-amp can be connected. So this is an emotiva stereo amp. Why can’t you connect an avr using the method I just mentioned? I have seen a dealer use it with marantz 8012
 

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I am little lost with your explanation and don’t follow. I didn’t say two pre-amp can be connected. So this is an emotiva stereo amp. Why can’t you connect an avr using the method I just mentioned? I have seen a dealer use it with marantz 8012

If you meant pre-out from one avr/pre-amp/integrated amp to rca main-in of a second integrated amp / power amp/avr then that is fine. But not pre-out to a standard rca line in as that would be loading the input of the receiving amp which is definitely not advisable. Even a ht bypass signal is a line level signal which essentially bypasses the vol control of the pre-amp it feeds so that a standard 2ch system can be integrated into a multi-ch system but as one FM mentioned it is difficult to find amps with ht bypass.
 
If you meant pre-out from one avr/pre-amp/integrated amp to rca main-in of a second integrated amp / power amp/avr then that is fine. But not pre-out to a standard rca line in as that would be loading the input of the receiving amp which is definitely not advisable. Even a ht bypass signal is a line level signal which essentially bypasses the vol control of the pre-amp it feeds so that a standard 2ch system can be integrated into a multi-ch system but as one FM mentioned it is difficult to find amps with ht bypass.
Yeah that’s what I meant like the image shown above and not to a standard RCA line.
 
Just use a rca cable and inter-connect the avr from its pre-out to the stereo amp rca inputs.

I was responding to this post of "stereo amp rca inputs". Since you didn't specify rca main-in vs rca line-in hence the explanation.

Yeah that’s what I meant like the image shown above and not to a standard RCA line.

Thanks for subsequently clarifying.
 
[QUOTE="Love4sound, post: 882178, member: 898 just use a rca cable and inter-connect the avr from its pre-out to the stereo amp rca inputs.
Well we all have our reference. Normally every one in my circle refer to them as just rca inputs. And if you look at the technical specifications in the product site or atleast to what I have seen so far they are named as unbalanced RCA inputs
 
Well we all have our reference. Normally every one in my circle refer to them as just rca inputs. And if you look at the technical specifications in the product site or atleast to what I have seen so far they are named as unbalanced RCA inputs

I personally have had bitter experiences listening to wrong advice from so-called knowledgeable technocrats outside this esteemed forum. Ymmv and it's fine that you have your own reference. Fwiw it's always good to be specific and crystal clear when referring to HiFi audio equipment atleast that's what I try to do to the best of my ability especially when I am trying to advise newbies. As we all know with time and experience that HiFi equipment is not simply a matter of just plug-n-play but which necessitates careful thought, consideration and knowledge when mixing / matching amps with each other.
 
I was under the impression any stereo amp like the one below can be connected to an Avr



"XTZ A2-300" Amp you mentioned is just a Power Amplifier. We can directly connect AVR pre-outs to power amplifier inputs. But the question here is how to connect an AVR Pre-out to an "Stereo Integrated Amp" or "stereo Preamp". As far as I know, the only possible solution is to have HT Bypass feature in stereo preamp or to have main-in input in an Stereo Integrated Amp. But if you are using Active or powered Speakers, we can use an external line switcher like from Nobsound to use Same speakers for both Stereo preamp & AVR. Simply connect output of Stereo Amp & AVR Pre-outs to Nobsound line Switcher and then connect output of Nobsound to Active Speakers.


 
"XTZ A2-300" Amp you mentioned is just a Power Amplifier. We can directly connect AVR pre-outs to power amplifier inputs. But the question here is how to connect an AVR Pre-out to an "Stereo Integrated Amp" or "stereo Preamp". As far as I know, the only possible solution is to have HT Bypass feature in stereo preamp or to have main-in input in an Stereo Integrated Amp. But if you are using Active or powered Speakers, we can use an external line switcher like from Nobsound to use Same speakers for both Stereo preamp & AVR. Simply connect output of Stereo Amp & AVR Pre-outs to Nobsound line Switcher and then connect output of Nobsound to Active Speakers.


It’s mainly used as a stereo amp. Any 2 channel PA can be also called as a stereo amp and used as stereo amp. Emotiva calls the bass x a-300 which is a 2 channel pa as a stereo power amp and also the OP also mentioned stereo amp and not integrated amp. No harm in calling a 2 channel amp a stereo amp IMO. Also the OP requested how he can improve the stereo performance in his current avr set up and I think his real query is if he can add a 2 channel stereo amp to his current avr. So to the OP if your avr has pre-outs you can connect the similar model stereo amps that I shared.
 
No harm in calling a 2 channel amp a stereo amp IMO. Also the OP requested how he can improve the stereo performance in his current avr set up and I think his real query is if he can add a 2 channel stereo amp to his current avr. So to the OP if your avr has pre-outs you can connect the similar model stereo amps that I shared.

Your suggestions are good but there is a catch. If OP uses "Stereo Power Amp" only (let me call "Stereo Amp" as "Stereo Power Amp" to avoid ambiguity.) Then how could he control volume for his stereo. Correct me if am wrong.
 
Your suggestions are good but there is a catch. If OP uses "Stereo Power Amp" only (let me call "Stereo Amp" as "Stereo Power Amp" to avoid ambiguity.) Then how could he control volume for his stereo. Correct me if am wrong.
In this case the avr acts as the pre-amp so he can increase the volume in the avr. Like I have mentioned in my previous comment I have seen a dealer use similar method for xtz tower speakers with marantz 8012
 
Yes, It will work. But it is an incremental upgrade as we are bypassing only the Power Amplification of AVR. Streamer/DAC/preamp opeartions are still managed by AVR. If users want to do a gradual step by step upgrade then its a good idea to first include a Stereo Power Amp in the chain and then for further SQ improvements, can add Streamer/DAC/preamp combo or seperates.
Yeah it’s up to each individual. For me I am quite happy with my Denon 4500 as I am more of a HT guy and stereo isn’t a top priority. And there are some who spend a fortune for stereo components.
 
I have my Marantz SR6013 preouts connected to the Parasound A21 power amp. The performance of both music and movies changed significantly after this change. Now, for dedicated stereo performance, I am trying to integrate a stereo preamp with a HT bypass switch while using the same Parasound power amp along with the existing AVR. The preouts of the AVR go to the HT bypass “ins” on the pre amp. The outs of the preamp are fed into the power amp. This has been quite tricky; I haven’t come across any (as far as my research goes) preamp that offers this: an HT bypass.
There are some integrated amps that do, but I would prefer a dedicated pre, because I will be spending on the power section of the integrated amp, and not using it.
I am currently considering the Swara tube pre amp from Acoustic Potrait because the friendly folks at Acoustic Potrait have agreed to add an AVR/HT bypass switch on the preamp as a customisation.
Would love to hear from FMs on any other recommendations for pre amps having such a HT bypass switch.
Going the separates way and mixing them for movies and music is perhaps not so easy.
 
I haven’t come across any (as far as my research goes) preamp that offers this: an HT bypass.

Schiit Freya & Schiit Freya+ preamp does have HT bypass option in passive mode. It is true that it is very rare to see a dedicated Preamp supporting HT bypass.
 
This has been quite tricky; I haven’t come across any (as far as my research goes) preamp that offers this: an HT bypass.
There are some integrated amps that do, but I would prefer a dedicated pre, because I will be spending on the power section of the integrated amp, and not using it.
Would love to hear from FMs on any other recommendations for pre amps having such a HT bypass switch.
Going the separates way and mixing them for movies and music is perhaps not so easy.


even my Atoll Pr100se has ht bypass :D
 
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