Can I ask for the information about the sound signature of various AVRs ?

vasishta.sushant

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I am rather new in the arena so still trying to make myself conversant with the plethora of options available in the AVR space.

Bought the Onkyo 3300 a while back and realized that my preference is more towards the music. The stock AVR was good enough but somehow I was dependent on my HTPC to configure the sound to suit to my taste. Sold that one recently to a friend and I am back in the search for a new AVR (HTiB this time).

Have already Polk Audio Tsi 300 as my main speakers so looking for a nice companion for these only.

Also to remove the dependency on the HTPC (for music only), I am considering only the AVRs with USB input. Eying the Denon 1911, Marantz 1601, Yamaha 471 (yet to be launched) and Harman Kardon 133.

Out of these, Yamaha seems to be the best bet since it packs in much more in the least price (excluding HK since that doesn't even have HDMI). Can look at the option of buying the stuff from the US but then there are added hassles of step down converters etc which I would like to avoid.

For the moment, I would want to request you guys to suggest me how do the sound signatures of various AVRs vary ? Probably in the terms of what AVR will suit to what kind of music. Although I would like to pursue something that is good with the acoustic/jazz, I would still like to understand from the fellow owners what do they feel about about the stuff they own.

Suggestions about the best suitability with my current polks would be highly appreciated.

(BTW I'll also be buying Polk Audio center channel CS10 with the AVR. The Sub and the rears will come later, probably after a year).
 
SOund is very personal and preference for one may not be suitable for others.
I found Onkyo to be way bright , Denon good for Movies and Marantz better for Music.

So choose after Demo , thats all I can say.

As for features buy a AVR for relevant features as some features may not be used at all.

My preference would be Marantz 1601 for Music and Denon 1911 for Movies.

Since You are in Gurgaon you can Demo Denon 1611 with Polk TSI 300 at PRO FX shop in MGF mall and Yamaha 667 with Yamaha shop at 3 shops from it.

Polk sound nice with Denon in My opinion.
 
For the moment, I would want to request you guys to suggest me how do the sound signatures of various AVRs vary ? Probably in the terms of what AVR will suit to what kind of music. Although I would like to pursue something that is good with the acoustic/jazz, I would still like to understand from the fellow owners what do they feel about about the stuff they own.

This question u have asked is a brilliant one but may be difficult to answer. As far as i know, only very highly priced AVR's can achieve a good/nice balance between movies and music. But then the question if such AVR's are value for money or not, is another question which needs to be answered.

I have no idea about the audio signatures of AVR's as i have never auditioned such highly priced AVR's.

I am also interested to find an answer from our fellow experts here on HFV.
 
Bought the Onkyo 3300 a while back and realized that my preference is more towards the music...

I felt DENON AMP is good for music , Somehow i felt its littlebit flat for movies. ONKYO is VFM and works very good for movies. ONKYO's best seperation of sound and punch in sound somehow littlebit lacking in DENON (may be because DENON's soft sound, it appears like that ).

Again YAMAHA is good for music.

This is how i felt myself. Do listen to the amps and decide based on your personel interest.
For the moment, I would want to request you guys to suggest me how do the sound signatures of various AVRs vary ? Probably in the terms of what AVR will suit to what kind of music. Although I would like to pursue something that is good with the acoustic/jazz, I would still like to understand from the fellow owners what do they feel about about the stuff they own.
If you are looking for exact sound reproduction then you have to get only hi-end AMPS. Some Hi -end amps have special equalizers and BASS/Terrible adjustment for each individual speaker. So you could adjust these settings for best performance.
 
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Company's website for each of the amplifiers should have manuals in pdf format. Check the frequency response and THD. Many AVRs have separate (better) specification for front channels.

Pioneer AVRs offer best VFM IMO.
 
Sushant:

My approach to this is different - my music (stereo) amp is a Cyrus 8vs2 paired with Monitor Audio Silver RS6 floorstanders. The Onkyo HTS 3300, which I bought with you, is only for movies.

This works out well for me. Your mileage, obviously, would vary.
 
Thanks for the inputs guys. I understand that this is confusing but still to put into perspective, you guys can probably classify the avrs into basic categories (of course with respect to the music reproduction): Laid back/Dull Sound, Neutral/Transparent and Bright.

As I'd put it, the Laid Back/Dull sound migh be good with the bass but not so good with the vocals and highs. Missing crystality in the sound.

The Neutral ones would be the most pricey options since they are the ones that produce the sound as intended by the producer. No coloration, no damping/accentuation.

The bright ones would probably be the ones with little bumped up higher frequency spectrums. Might be good with vocals but definitely good with the strings/cymbals.

I totally understand its all subjective and can't be possibly put into words but on a very vague scale, it might be able to showcase the avrs in a little more objective way.

Also to add, I live in a rented apartment. Space is at premium. Even if I might be able to afford individual stereo and multichannel systems, it'd attract a lot of inconvenience. To put it in another way, I need a two channel system only but do not want to miss on the option of going multichannel later so looking for AVRs. Again, music is the primary concern.

(Guess I quite messed up the thought :p)
 
Sushanth, your posting has a lot of contradictions. If you serious about music, you must look a little beyond an HTiB. An HTiB is meant to fill the mass market and is compromised in many ways. Secondly, the capability of an AVR is limited to playing MP3 and, irrespective of what they claim, the sound output would be wanting in many ways.

I would not even consider brands such as Onkyo, Yamaha, and Denon at the entry and mid levels. The 1911, 471 etc., are unashamedly meant for movies and would never come close to be being acceptable for music.

I would suggest that you seriously audition ARVs from NAD and from Cambridge Audio. The second option you could look at is getting an HTiB for movies, and buying a entry level stereo integrated amp for music. You will get much better output in both areas.

Cheers
 
I agree to some extent about the contradictions but all I am trying to avoid is the mess here. Just one component, capable of doing everything (I can compromise some of the quality in favor of the usability).

Let us keep it simple; all I am looking is an AVR that is good for music. (Of course in the budget I've ..::less than 40K::., I can't expect A class performance :p) Just help me have an idea what other guys think about the music capabilities of the AVRs they have. :)
 
Marantz,Cambridge audio,Arcam ,Nad makes musical AVR.
Denon,Yamaha can be 50:50 & Onkyo better for movies.

Again it depends on speakers & system matching.
 
....
For the moment, I would want to request you guys to suggest me how do the sound signatures of various AVRs vary ?
I didnt read the full thread, so am not sure what suggestions was given.

This is well...a myth mostly! The same question for speakers would make sense, but amps no.
Most AVR's/amp (good brands like HK, Denon, Yam, NAD, Marantz, Emotiva, Onkyo) when compared in the same price range, have very low differences in how they sound comparatively. But if you compare amp's with significant differences in price then *you can* make out some differences (This depends on many factors).

When comparing, compare prices in the same range. When compared in the same range, most good company products have very minor differences which a normal person can't distinguish. Instead what people tend to hear is a room or the speakers & conclude it's the amp. In multiple blind tests conducted, using same equipment, environment, same people and same songs. Each trial used to produce different feedback from same listener. Listeners tends to hear sounds that they missed out the earlier time, which is very common in people, and me too. :eek:hyeah: ...and am sure it's same with most of you. :)

When it comes to sound, the speakers play the most important part, then comes room acoustice which is also significant, lastly the amp. One should choose an amp with respect to the speakers in question. Some speakers are a very hard to drive, even the best of amps can struggle to power them, while some other are easier to drive. This is a very common problem! People shop for new speakers thinking there is some issue with their other new speakers, while the amp was the issue. On the contrary, a different speaker of same price range, would have made this amp seem good. Some speakers can make a good amp sound not so gr8 and some others speakers can make a good amp sound as good as its meant to be. (Other way round is not possible, a good amp cant make a bad speaker sound good. It is always a speaker which dictates how it sounds).

Bottom line is, it is crucial to match speakers with the right amp, as some amps tend to have lesser current delivering capability than some others. It is kind of a chicken and egg problem, as it is the combination of two. But reality is that, it is highly dependent with the speaker in question. A less expensive speaker can require a more powerful amp, and a more expensive could be driven very easily with a less powerful amp. Get an expert or technically capable person to do the matching, dont depend on sales men in shops in this regard! My small experience auditioning, and talking to many different guys and I will tell you, hands down they have no clue what matching speakers to amp means. I can tell you what it is, it is a lot more than just reading specs from manufacturers, comparing & choosing. Also, the manufacturer's specs are usually not reliable when one tries to match.
 
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O man that was a nice reply. Thanks for sparing so much time.

I actually restructured my priorities and opted for a stereo system. Bought Cambridge Audio 550A amplifier and left the idea of getting an avr. Will buy a surround system probably after few years, if I become capable to buy my own house.
 
Friends / Gurus ,

U all are soul shakers really.
Jus few mins back i decided to go for Denon AVR1611 but reading this whole post I am back to square confused and stranded.

Will keep reading to learn more and then decide.

You all are doing a excellent job for dummies like me .:clapping:

Thanks again.
 
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Thanks guys.

Im evaluating Denon X3100 (95k), Onkyo 828 (90-100K) and Marantz SR6009 (80k) for the PSB X2T FS speakers, without any power amp attached.

Here are a few considerations:

- Onkyo has a marginally muffled sound compared to Denon & the AccuEQ is not that great either. Read on issues with the HDMI boards soldering coming off due to heating for predecessor models. Yet, in terms of features (ATMOS & 135w/channel) & price on offer, Onkyo seems like a loaded option for the price.

- Marantz isnt known to be bright enough for movies though is a clear winner for music. SR 6009 is also high on features (wireless & otherwise). The upside with Marantz is the Audyssey XT, general overall reliability and will balance the sound of the PSBs. My 2 concerns - heard of issues where the unit would be "hanging" alot & that its 110 watt/channel. But "spirovious" mentions its worth the try.

- Denon AVr X3100 is fully loaded on features and is a good choice for movies & music alike. Considering its a slightly bass heavy AVR and that X2Ts have somewhat lacking bass (compared to Paradigm 11s), this may work out to be a better match. An Audyssey Gold advanced DSP & delhi based after sales service office is a big plus. Only concern - given the Marantz and Onkyo, this one is on the higher price (95k) bracket with lower output per channel 105 watts per channel. The Denon dealer says the 105 is "pure & raw output" unlike the others - whatever that means!!

Dropped the NAD option - low features & almost 1.25k


Any suggestions would be welcome on WHICH ONE IS SUITABLE - please consider the observations as well.


Big thanks to all
 
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