Cartridge setup help for Thorens TD209

[hearme]

Hello,
I have a Thorens TD209 which comes with an AT-95 cartridge. I wish to upgrade the cartridge to an Ortofon 2M red or Nagaoka MP-110.

I would like some help in this regard, as I am unable to fit the new cartridges correctly as the screws in the original tonearm do not match the new ones and wont come off the tonearm. I don't want to damage the tone arm and hence paused the operation to ask for help.... so here I am!

Can someone take it forward from here...I am in Mumbai.

Thanks

 

[JayaRaa]

have you already bought the cartridge? if yes then why not use the screws that are provided with the new cartridge? some pics would also help of what the issue is.

 

[hearme]

Yes I have both the cartridges and the screws that came along.

I am posting the pics as rightly suggested for a better idea, basically the original screws are below the tone arm and wont come out, also i am not sure if the pick up is riveted to the tonearm. The original screws as seen in the pic are too big for the Ortofon and small for the Nagaoka.

Maybe the pics will help as you suggested.... regards

 

[jls001]

It looks like you'll have to completely remove the plate to which the two screws are attached. The single screw that's holding the plate (a.k.a. headshell) to the arm tube seems to have hex head. Do you have Allen key set? Of course a plier will also work BUT will likely leave marks on the Allen/hex head.

You need to fit the cartridge after completely freeing the plate from the arm tube. I'm additionally guessing the two screws that go into the cartridge need to be of exact length, without the screw heads protruding from the plate (meaning the screw heads are completely sunken into the plate) since the arm tube seems to be partially covering the heads of the screws.

Hope you marked the original angle at which the plate was fixed to the arm tube since this angle decides the offset angle of the arm.

 

[shaizada]

You are in Mumbai. You should probably reach out and see if someone experienced can come over and properly install the cartridge for you. Watch them install the cartridge and you can learn from that for any future installs.

Good luck!

 

[hearme]

It looks like you'll have to completely remove the plate to which the two screws are attached. The single screw that's holding the plate (a.k.a. headshell) to the arm tube seems to have hex head. Do you have Allen key set? Of course a plier will also work BUT will likely leave marks on the Allen/hex head.

You need to fit the cartridge after completely freeing the plate from the arm tube. I'm additionally guessing the two screws that go into the cartridge need to be of exact length, without the screw heads protruding from the plate (meaning the screw heads are completely sunken into the plate) since the arm tube seems to be partially covering the heads of the screws.

Hope you marked the original angle at which the plate was fixed to the arm tube since this angle decides the offset angle of the arm.

Thx for the reply...have an Allen key..will try and remove the headshell...have clicked pics for angle reference...will mark as you suggested.

I was not sure if the single screw was riveted or would come off...

Will update....

 

[hearme]

You are in Mumbai. You should probably reach out and see if someone experienced can come over and properly install the cartridge for you. Watch them install the cartridge and you can learn from that for any future installs.

Good luck!

Yes, that's ideal... beer and snacks on the house...:lol:

 

[JayaRaa]

Yes I have both the cartridges and the screws that came along.

I am posting the pics as rightly suggested for a better idea, basically the original screws are below the tone arm and wont come out, also i am not sure if the pick up is riveted to the tonearm. The original screws as seen in the pic are too big for the Ortofon and small for the Nagaoka.

Maybe the pics will help as you suggested.... regards

very strange type of design, but then germans are like that. tried to find material on the cart install but could not find any. use the correct allen key to remove the mounting plate from tone arm & mark the angle as suggested by other fm. but you will have to adjust vta, azimuth, besides the tracking force of the cart to be installed. it will take time & patience. best would be to do it yourself as that will give you practise for future cart installs as well. imagine if a person comes to install with good intent & he accidentally breaks something then what? who installed the current cart as this model does not come with audio tecnica cart prefitted

 

[Hiten]

I think actually there is no need to remove the plate with two screws holding cartridge. Otherwise how would you fix cartridge. You need proper length screws. Remove stylus while fixing the cartridge. If you are not bothered about looks you can reverse the screws Head at bottom and nut on top and see if the cartridge fits.
Regards.

 

[jls001]

If you are not bothered about looks you can reverse the screws Head at bottom and nut on top and see if the cartridge fits.

IIRC the 2M Red has threaded hole for screw that doesn't go all the way from top to bottom, so it can only be fixed from headshell end and not from bottom.

 

[jls001]

very strange type of design,

Schroeder tonearms also use similar design. It's very clever, IMO.

 

[hearme]

Today I have an off to will take on the project from where I left off...

Yes will need the correct allen key so as not to damage the tonearm, grooves/ thread, there is enough material on the finer adjustment online but not much on this tonearm w.r.t. cart change.

It came with a prefixed AT-95 which is nice...but then the bug...:lol:

Thank you all for your imputs... will update you once done, either a broken tonearm or musical bliss!

Cheers!

very strange type of design, but then germans are like that. tried to find material on the cart install but could not find any. use the correct allen key to remove the mounting plate from tone arm & mark the angle as suggested by other fm. but you will have to adjust vta, azimuth, besides the tracking force of the cart to be installed. it will take time & patience. best would be to do it yourself as that will give you practise for future cart installs as well. imagine if a person comes to install with good intent & he accidentally breaks something then what? who installed the current cart as this model does not come with audio tecnica cart prefitted

 

[JayaRaa]

enjoy the experience and update. best wishes & success for musical day

Today I have an off to will take on the project from where I left off...

Yes will need the correct allen key so as not to damage the tonearm, grooves/ thread, there is enough material on the finer adjustment online but not much on this tonearm w.r.t. cart change.

It came with a prefixed AT-95 which is nice...but then the bug...:lol:

Thank you all for your imputs... will update you once done, either a broken tonearm or musical bliss!

Cheers!

 

[Hiten]

IIRC the 2M Red has threaded hole for screw that doesn't go all the way from top to bottom, so it can only be fixed from headshell end and not from bottom.

aahh OK. So no option then either get proper length screws or cut off original screws or put nut in the middle of the screw to tighten.
Regards

 

[hearme]

Hey, sorry for the delayed update...once I got the head shell off with a plyer :indifferent14: the rest of the set up was simple.

The screws came off the old...first set up the Ortofon 2M...heard some LPs and then set up the Nagaoka..the screws provided for both fitted like a charm.... heard some LP's.

The Nagaoka stays... more records today morning....bliss....now back to work. Will listen to both cartridges over the week.

Next to understand more about the skid, tracking forces etc...plus Devialet offers some phono setting on the amp which I need to configure.

Thanks all for help and inputs...:clapping:

The beer and snacks offer stays...:licklips:

enjoy the experience and update. best wishes & success for musical day

 

[hearme]

Hiten, thankfully, the screws that came with the two cart's fit absolutely fine...thanks.

aahh OK. So no option then either get proper length screws or cut off original screws or put nut in the middle of the screw to tighten.
Regards

 

[jls001]

Next to understand more about the skid, tracking forces etc...plus Devialet offers some phono setting on the amp which I need to configure.

Tracking force for MP110 is 1.5 to 2 grams. You could try the mid value and play around with lower and higher within the range.

Anti skate value is typically set same as tracking force. Some people like half of tracking force.

On your phono preamp section, set impedance loading to 47 kilo Ohms. If higher values are supported, try that as well.

There should be capacitive loading as well but the cartridge specs makes no mention of it. Try the lowest supported by your phono preamp and go up from there.At some value you should get the best overall tonal balance.

 

[hearme]

Thx for the inputs...will do the needful and revert!

Enjoying the sound.....Vinyl is magic!!:clapping:

Tracking force for MP110 is 1.5 to 2 grams. You could try the mid value and play around with lower and higher within the range.

Anti skate value is typically set same as tracking force. Some people like half of tracking force.

On your phono preamp section, set impedance loading to 47 kilo Ohms. If higher values are supported, try that as well.

There should be capacitive loading as well but the cartridge specs makes no mention of it. Try the lowest supported by your phono preamp and go up from there.At some value you should get the best overall tonal balance.

 

[Hiten]

Sorry I thought you said screws are short for one cartridge and long for another.
All is well that ends well. Glad you are enjoying vinyl format. Nice way to explore new music and fun to tinker around turntables.
Regards

 

[mpw]

hearme

your devialets drive which speakers ?

post a pic of your setup..

regards