Debate for Best 4K Qled TV - SAY NO TO OLED.

[MusicMadness]

Hi everyone,
I am starting this thread to discuss the best 4K Qled TV one can buy today.
I am seeing active discussions going on OLED TV's but nothing reg LED TVs.
Hope this thread will be helpfull for people like me who are very much worried about BURN-IN issue of OLED's and dont want to run around warranties.

Coming to QLED's, I see Samsung is offering Q70R and Q80R models which are excellent picture quality with deep blacks while trying to improve on the drawbacks of VA panels like Viewing angle. I am personally inclined to samsung since I have been using them since 15 years and they never disappointed.

Post your views and alternate brands one can thing off keeping budget and best in mind.
Thanks.

 

[Marakk]

I have debated this in my head too, and before committing, do due research on brightness fluctuations with subtitles on Samsung QLEDs. Big concern for me as my parents need subtitles. I do too with films in languages other than English and Hindi. Watch Vincent's review of Q70R. See how brightness fluctuates in Gravity. That's a killer for me.

Also, check Rtings burn-in tests. Those were done on 2017 sets. Red sub-pixel burns out the most. Since then, for two years straight, the red sub-pixel has been increase in size and is now twice the size easily. Also, aperture ratio of OLED pixels has gone up, without it being utilized to boost brightness. I expect 2019 sets to be much much better with regards to burn-in. If static elements aren't on screen for longer than 3-4 hours a day, burn-in won't happen for good 5-6 years. How? Calculate hours based on Rtings tests. You can easily double those with 2019 sets, if not more, and then check your usage.

I have bought a C9, and I have literally no fear of burn-in, because I have done the research and checked my usage. Don't give in to fear. Take a calculated decision. LG C9 will cost you close to Q70 only. Plus, LG itself is offering 3 year warranty this festive season.

 

[hrish88]

Hi everyone,
I am starting this thread to discuss the best 4K Qled TV one can buy today.
I am seeing active discussions going on OLED TV's but nothing reg LED TVs.
Hope this thread will be helpfull for people like me who are very much worried about BURN-IN issue of OLED's and dont want to run around warranties.

Coming to QLED's, I see Samsung is offering Q70R and Q80R models which are excellent picture quality with deep blacks while trying to improve on the drawbacks of VA panels like Viewing angle. I am personally inclined to samsung since I have been using them since 15 years and they never disappointed.

Post your views and alternate brands one can thing off keeping budget and best in mind.
Thanks.

There is Q90R also which is the best in samsung 4k range.Also this year samsung has added a special layer on high end tvs like Q90R and may be Q80R to improve the viewing angles.so despite having VA panels viewing angles are better this year for tv.

The one downside of Q90R is that its only available in 65 inches.so if you are looking for a 55 inch tv then its starts with Q80R.

 

[hrish88]

I have bought a C9, and I have literally no fear of burn-in, because I have done the research and checked my usage. Don't give in to fear. Take a calculated decision. LG C9 will cost you close to Q70 only. Plus, LG itself is offering 3 year warranty this festive season.

LG C9 is close to Q80R which is costing 1.4 on tata cliq.The Q70R is for 1.15

 

[Marakk]

LG C9 is close to Q80R which is costing 1.4 on tata cliq.The Q70R is for 1.15

I got my C9 for 126.5k. LG B9 can be had for the same cost as Q70 then. Burn-in shouldn't be the decision to go for Q70. Plus, it's not like FALD TVs are without faults. They have more IMO. Only reason I posted on this thread is to let people know that burn-in shouldn't be overhyped with 2019 sets. They are going to serve users well. Only caveat is if there are going to be static logos on screen for 6-7 hours each day.

 

[gappa]

I must admit here that due to my past experience with Samsung ,i literally heat their products.
Also people like me from plasma prefer only oled.

if i want other than oled,i will look for
1.)tcl mini led series 8
2.) hisens uled with sandwith.
Evan if you want to go for Samsung ,they already started selling 8k in just 1.6k https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a29319702/samsung-tv-amazon-sale/

As their qoled and microled tech need atleast 1to 2 years to commrialise better go for those options.

also lot many players comming in market with excellent upscale software from 4k to 8k in just 4to 5 month.
i will never recommend present Samsung range which they are selling cheap outside india.

 

[Amarendra]

Hi everyone,
I am starting this thread to discuss the best 4K Qled TV one can buy today.
I am seeing active discussions going on OLED TV's but nothing reg LED TVs.
Hope this thread will be helpfull for people like me who are very much worried about BURN-IN issue of OLED's and dont want to run around warranties.

Coming to QLED's, I see Samsung is offering Q70R and Q80R models which are excellent picture quality with deep blacks while trying to improve on the drawbacks of VA panels like Viewing angle. I am personally inclined to samsung since I have been using them since 15 years and they never disappointed.

Post your views and alternate brands one can thing off keeping budget and best in mind.
Thanks.

I too was inclined towards Samsung but they miscalculated pricing. The Q90 R should have been priced similar to C9. The price of Q80R has now been hastily reduced to match C9. Funnily Q70R and Q80R were being quoted at the same price level yesterday.
However if you see the HDTV test (Vincent Teoh) and Rtings, both have pointed out color inaccuracy, lack of HDMI 2.1 and absence of Dolby Vision in Q80 R.
Why pay as much as a C9 for something inferior ?

 

[MusicMadness]

I too was inclined towards Samsung but they miscalculated pricing. The Q90 R should have been priced similar to C9. The price of Q80R has now been hastily reduced to match C9. Funnily Q70R and Q80R were being quoted at the same price level yesterday.
However if you see the HDTV test (Vincent Teoh) and Rtings, both have pointed out color inaccuracy, lack of HDMI 2.1 and absence of Dolby Vision in Q80 R.
Why pay as much as a C9 for something inferior ?

Thanks for reminding the drawbacks of Q80R.
But are they drawbacks ?? lets see..
1. HDMI 2.1 matters if we wanna send 8k content at more than 60frames per sec. we dont have any 8k sources now and honestly we shall I send 8k content to 4k tv ?? HDMI 2.0 can push 4K content at 60 fps easily.
2. eARC. Q80R doesnt support eARC which is known to give enhanced bandwidth to audio sent to home theater audio. But how many have HT setups at home. Even if they have, ARC can still supports 5.1 Dolby Digital.
3. Color inaccuracy ? calibration will take care of it. I honestly didnt notice any such while watching that demo tv.
4. Dolby Vision and HDR10 are rival technologies. Since samsung always pushes for HDR10 since its against DV standard. Thats something i have to live with.

So i wouldnt say Q80R as inferior. Infact its a proven LED tech. C9 Oled are just stepping technologies and shall revolutionize the way we watch TV in future.
But for now, I cant risk burn-in issue.

 

[MusicMadness]

I got my C9 for 126.5k. LG B9 can be had for the same cost as Q70 then. Burn-in shouldn't be the decision to go for Q70. Plus, it's not like FALD TVs are without faults. They have more IMO. Only reason I posted on this thread is to let people know that burn-in shouldn't be overhyped with 2019 sets. They are going to serve users well. Only caveat is if there are going to be static logos on screen for 6-7 hours each day.

Burn-in has to be thought off. its something that's happening for real and cant be ignored.
last time I talked to showroom guys, they acknowledged that burn-in is happening in their display pieces and has to return to the manufacturer.
Once I buy it I wont have that luxury. Sure 2019 models have lesser risk of that.
But take any risk if I am looking for atleast 5 years timeframe for a tv.

 

[MusicMadness]

Anyways this thread is not opened to debate between Qled or Oled's.
This is to know best Qled's out der and discuss them.
So lets focus on that guys. Thanks.

 

[Marakk]

It's also important to dispel fear mongering. In Rtings test, the CNN started burning-in after 2,500 hours at maximum brightness. 3,000 plus hours at 200 nits brightness, which is higher than the setting at which I watch TV in my room. This burn-in was on the red sub-pixel, which is now twice the size, along with more substrate being added to each pixel, without brightness increases. There's also logo luminance adjustment setting in new TVs. Turn it on high. You're safe.

Even if you don't, you're safe for a good 6,000 hours. Watch news on the same channel for 3 hours everyday? That's still 2,000 days, which means almost 6 years. Even if I'm off, a good 5 years nonetheless.

This is why I said that the risk is only if you watch the same channel for 6-7 hours, which means same logo on screen for 6-7 hours. How many people do this? Hardly any. Even my old aunts and uncles don't have this kind of usage.

You don't want to buy OLED, fair enough. Let's stop fear mongering though. I have placed my thoughts. You can check the Rtings test for yourself. Check the sub-pixel photos too. If you want, I can take new ones too. I did that for the Metz OLED I had bought, which was an early 2019 panel.

 

[MusicMadness]

It's also important to dispel fear mongering. In Rtings test, the CNN started burning-in after 2,500 hours at maximum brightness. 3,000 plus hours at 200 nits brightness, which is higher than the setting at which I watch TV in my room. This burn-in was on the red sub-pixel, which is now twice the size, along with more substrate being added to each pixel, without brightness increases. There's also logo luminance adjustment setting in new TVs. Turn it on high. You're safe.

Even if you don't, you're safe for a good 6,000 hours. Watch news on the same channel for 3 hours everyday? That's still 2,000 days, which means almost 6 years. Even if I'm off, a good 5 years nonetheless.

This is why I said that the risk is only if you watch the same channel for 6-7 hours, which means same logo on screen for 6-7 hours. How many people do this? Hardly any. Even my old aunts and uncles don't have this kind of usage.

You don't want to buy OLED, fair enough. Let's stop fear mongering though. I have placed my thoughts. You can check the Rtings test for yourself. Check the sub-pixel photos too. If you want, I can take new ones too. I did that for the Metz OLED I had bought, which was an early 2019 panel.

Thanks Marakk for all the info... The more we discuss, more we get educated.
I also heard the OLED's are prone to loose their pop colours with usage or exposed to sunlight. Is this true or just a myth ?

 

[Marakk]

Thanks Marakk for all the info... The more we discuss, more we get educated.
I also heard the OLED's are prone to loose their pop colours with usage or exposed to sunlight. Is this true or just a myth ?

Yes! Exposure to sunlight will degrade the organic pixels. Strict no. Direct sunlight harms LCD panels too, but not as bad as OLEDs.

As far as colors and brightness are concerned, again, check the Rtings test. There's no appreciable loss of color gamut or brightness as of now. Infact, with usage, it went up a bit on the middle.

Real-Life OLED Burn-In Test On 6 TVs

There are concerns about OLED long-term performance due to the possibility of burn-in. We bought 6 LG OLED C7s to play real, non-altered content. It should give you a better idea of what to expect depending on what you watch on your TV.

www.rtings.com

 

[bitanshudas]

It's also important to dispel fear mongering. In Rtings test, the CNN started burning-in after 2,500 hours at maximum brightness. 3,000 plus hours at 200 nits brightness, which is higher than the setting at which I watch TV in my room. This burn-in was on the red sub-pixel, which is now twice the size, along with more substrate being added to each pixel, without brightness increases. There's also logo luminance adjustment setting in new TVs. Turn it on high. You're safe.

Even if you don't, you're safe for a good 6,000 hours. Watch news on the same channel for 3 hours everyday? That's still 2,000 days, which means almost 6 years. Even if I'm off, a good 5 years nonetheless.

This is why I said that the risk is only if you watch the same channel for 6-7 hours, which means same logo on screen for 6-7 hours. How many people do this? Hardly any. Even my old aunts and uncles don't have this kind of usage.

You don't want to buy OLED, fair enough. Let's stop fear mongering though. I have placed my thoughts. You can check the Rtings test for yourself. Check the sub-pixel photos too. If you want, I can take new ones too. I did that for the Metz OLED I had bought, which was an early 2019 panel.

My parents watch TV serials on 2 channels evening 5.30 to 12 at night !! Also if you watch a full one day match ,its 9 hrs on a same channel. On weekends i can watch 3-4 football matches back to back (6 hrs+ on same or 2 channels)

 

[Marakk]

My parents watch TV serials on 2 channels evening 5.30 to 12 at night !! Also if you watch a full one day match ,its 9 hrs on a same channel. On weekends i can watch 3-4 football matches back to back (6 hrs+ on same or 2 channels)

Your parents usage isn't a problem if it's about 3 hours per channel. Just keep logo luminance adjustment on high. Also, contrast on 80 and peak brightness off on SDR content disables ABL btw. That's where I have kept mine now.

If you're watching these many football watched only on weekends, it's not a problem. Even if you watch everyday for a few months each year, like a season, not a problem. Do you watch 9 hour matches on the same channel everyday? They don't even happen everyday.

Cumulative hours matter. Calculate hours. How many days it'll take you to reach 6,000 hours for static content on the same channel? Simple as that. If it gets 5-6 years, buy it. If it's 2-3 year, don't.

 

[Anuj Gupta]

I see the focus shifting from the real conversation here (as the title suggests). Maybe we should contribute to what is the best non-OLED (or QLED) TV available in the market with their pros and cons.

We already have a thread for OLED burn-in issue (or we could open a separate thread for 2019 OLED).

 

[Marakk]

I see the focus shifting from the real conversation here (as the title suggests). Maybe we should contribute to what is the best non-OLED (or QLED) TV available in the market with their pros and cons.

We already have a thread for OLED burn-in issue (or we could open a separate thread for 2019 OLED).

Fair enough. I have given info. People can take their decision.

Let's talk about QLED. Quantum dots revolutionary technology, which is the same as Triluminos of Sony. QLED is just a marketing term to fool people, drive them away from OLED by fear mongering. No burn-in for 10 years!!!

X950G by Sony is similar to Q70. It's also a quantum dot enhanced VA panel. I was considering both of these earlier. Avforums has done a nice review of X950G, which showcases massive blooming in dark bars of cinemascope movies. Q70 does better in this regard, but falters because of brightness changes in content, especially with subtitles.

Also, Samsung has been known to reduce dimming zones depending on the area. So there's no way to know unless someone counts whether Q80 here has the same number of dimming zones as the one tested by Rtings.

Basically, it shouldn't be about QLED and OLED. It should be about FALD and OLED. FALD sets as of now are super overpriced. Consider that just 3 years ago Panasonic had launched the best mid-range FALD set. Mid-range as in, compared to the Sony Z9D.

It had 512 dimming zones!! Which set compares to it now? Q80 with its 96 dimmings, which might be even lesser in India? Instead of the tech becoming cheaper and filtering to lower prices, it has reversed. Why is Panasonic not making top notch FALD sets? OLEDs made them redundant.

Next year, prices will fall even more for OLEDs. Samsung itself is pumping money to get back in the OLED game with their QD-OLED panels, which actually might suffer from burn-in too like early WOLED panels too. Why? Because they survived the last few years by rebottling existing tech and fear-mongering. Now that's not going to last forever. They know it. QLED is nothing extraordinary. Sony introduced it 6 years ago.

Within a couple of years TADF blue material for blue pixels will be commercialised, increasing brightness and saving energy, along with potential to make red sub-pixels even bigger. You can follow the OLED advancements thread on avsforums if you want to know more.

 

[Amarendra]

I see the focus shifting from the real conversation here (as the title suggests). Maybe we should contribute to what is the best non-OLED (or QLED) TV available in the market with their pros and cons.

We already have a thread for OLED burn-in issue (or we could open a separate thread for 2019 OLED).

Suppose I were not to buy an OLED, I would rather save some money and buy a Panasonic GX800 (less than 100k) with rave reviews or a LG SM9000- the nanocell tv (around 100k)- with HDMI 2.1. Both these were on my shortlist. If I wanted to save even more I would look at LG 7300 (under 60k) and wait for microLEDs. But these would all be compromises from LG C9.

 

[Marakk]

Suppose I were not to buy an OLED, I would rather save some money and buy a Panasonic GX800 (less than 100k) with rave reviews or a LG SM9000- the nanocell tv (around 100k)- with HDMI 2.1. Both these were on my shortlist. If I wanted to save even more I would look at LG 7300 (under 60k) and wait for microLEDs. But these would all be compromises from LG C9.

Because those reviews were for the GX800 with VA panel. Here it's IPS panel. No good for HDR. And rave reviews? No. Just good reviews as a decent TV in the mid-budget segment, much cheaper than 1 lacs abroad. Nothing special at all. LG SM9000 is again an IPS panel which blooms like anything with its mediocre FALD! If someone gifted me these TVs for free, I would sell them. Can't watch such TVs. Once you go OLED, you can't come back. B9 can be had for 1.1 lacs this festive season with 3 years warranty from LG itself. I wouldn't consider anything below it. If anyone says SM9000 is a good TV for anything other than bright rooms, they don't know TVs. I have an IPS monitor. Even with bias lighting, those grey blacks are excruciating. Can't wait for refined OLED monitors to come.

 

[bitanshudas]

I wonder why they launch IPS panels in India. Is this because Indian families are big and hence need wider viewing angles?