Dedicated CD players Vs Dacs

[Aldrin]

Kindly add your feedbacks and comments related to comparisons made between Dedicated CD players & Dacs

 

[MaSh]

Hi,

Welcometo the forum. There is no comparison between an analog CD Player and a Digital medium DAC. In my opinion an Audio CD has a much wider frequency spectrum and better quality than any FLAC or Streamed content.

MaSh

 

[Aldrin]

Thank you for the input Mash

 

[rikhav]

Hi,

Welcometo the forum. There is no comparison between an analog CD Player and a Digital medium DAC. In my opinion an Audio CD has a much wider frequency spectrum and better quality than any FLAC or Streamed content.

MaSh

I don't agree about the wider frequency explanation
Dacs would be as good or bad as a CD player. Yes numbers will vary with what's being played , from where it's being played and quality of DAC

So both have their advantages and disadvantage
If DAC is used to play from PC we have to take care of OS of that PC being optimized for audio and medium of transfer good enough for audio
With a CDP used with it's analogue out or used as a transport with an external DAC , we don't have to worry about PC optimization

On the other hand using a PC has more flexibility with what can be played , resolution wise , streamed or local content and much more

If speaking about personal experience if I am planning to listen for very long hours I always prefer CDP as source with my DAC because I can just listen to whole CDs and for what my PC is as source it's sound is quiet lively and open sounding but at the same time it can't be enjoyed for very long hours
When CDP is used as source the sound is little less open but can be enjoyed for long hours specially if it's Bollywood music

This is what I experience in my setup, it can be totally opposite for someone else depending on listening preferences and kind of equipment one has

 

[ubitoo]

Hi,

In my opinion an Audio CD has a much wider frequency spectrum and better quality than any FLAC or Streamed content.

MaSh

Not with FLAC though. If the FLAC file is made from the CD then it is just the CD
"compressed" and nothing is lost.

When you "zip" a file, say a MS Word or a .mkv movie, do you loose some text
or scenes? No. Same way, FLAC does not loose information when compressing.

 

[MaSh]

Not with FLAC though. If the FLAC file is made from the CD then it is just the CD
"compressed" and nothing is lost.

When you "zip" a file, say a MS Word or a .mkv movie, do you loose some text
or scenes? No. Same way, FLAC does not loose information when compressing.

Have you tried it? I did and found a difference. No conversion matches up to an original cd track as I have experienced.

MaSh

 

[flute]

I think it matches if the player of pc is perfect and format is perfect.

 

[ubitoo]

Have you tried it?
MaSh

Honestly, never had a chance for side-by-by comparison of FLACs and CDs on a decent system.
My answer is strictly based on technical experience. Had once written a decoder-encoder for both FLAC & WAV

I did and found a difference. No conversion matches up to an original cd track as I have experienced.
MaSh

I am short of answers, my estimate is that the original source from which the FLAC would have been created could itself have the deficiencies you experience.


Chance for an experiment:
1. Take a song for which you have both a CD and a FLAC file, but you feel the FLAC does not sound as good as the CD.
2. Create a new FLAC from that CD
3. Listen to the new FLAC again - do you still feel the difference?

(Edit: Make the Pt.3 more clear)

 

[tuff]

@MaSh I am curious to know how the formats were compared. Was the same exact transport used for playback of both? Or one was played on a CD player and the other on a PC. The DAC and various other components might be the culprit. (just to clarify, I have never compared both.)

 

[MaSh]

@MaSh I am curious to know how the formats were compared. Was the same exact transport used for playback of both? Or one was played on a CD player and the other on a PC. The DAC and various other components might be the culprit. (just to clarify, I have never compared both.)

He he yes both same. Been into this long enough. There is no comparison with playing an audio cd and a FLAC ripped from the same cd being played via usb on the same player. Ripping obviously was done on a pc.

Honestly, never had a chance for side-by-by comparison of FLACs and CDs on a decent system.
My answer is strictly based on technical experience. Had once written a decoder-encoder for both FLAC & WAV


I am short of answers, my estimate is that the original source from which the FLAC would have been created could itself have the deficiencies you experience.


Chance for an experiment:
1. Take a song for which you have both a CD and a FLAC file, but you feel the FLAC does not sound as good as the CD.
2. Create a new FLAC from that CD
3. Listen to the new FLAC again - do you still feel the difference?

(Edit: Make the Pt.3 more clear)

Done numerous times, you should try it too.

MaSh

 

[kartikay]

Unless one can use same CDP's DAC portion to play FLAC (converted from same CD which is being played), I dont see a way how one can compare FLAC vs CD content. Also there is a question of USB vs Coax, as even on all the DACs I have tried, I found Coax input to be far superior over USB one..
But purely in terms of economics DACs should trump CDP when compared at similar price points. with DACs manufacturer is not concerned about transport section which is being offloaded to PC/Mac/Streamer, so "hopefully" your money is solely being spent for digital to analog conversion.

 

[drkrack]

Unless one can use same CDP's DAC portion to play FLAC (converted from same CD which is being played), I dont see a way how one can compare FLAC vs CD content.

I have Marantz CD 6006 which has a USB port for playing Wav, apart from playing Cds.
I have done this comparison umpteen number of times, I can change between the formats on the fly while playing and Cds sound way better in terms of dynamics and soundstage, not only excelling in details!

You just need a transparent /resolving speakers to make out the difference. I've ended this doubt many a times for myself. Interestingly factory ripped Mp3 Cds sound almost comparable to loseless format!
I use Free:ac or WMP to rip Cds if that matters.

CD 6006 DAC excels over the DAC in my AVR Marantz SR 7010 by a decent margin. Though AVR DAC is superior on paper, with dsd and Flac compatibility along with Wav files, it doesn't mean a better SQ.
Now DAC in the Cdp vs dedicated DAC, depends upon the quality of external DAC. For eg with Schiit modi multibit there's hardly any advantages over cdp DAC, whereas schiit Gungnir used to consistently outperform Cdp DAC. Hope this helps. If you have a good CD collection go for a better Cdp. Otherwise getting a better DAC is a good option.

 

[kartikay]

I have Marantz CD 6006 which has a USB port for playing Wav, apart from playing Cds.
I have done this comparison umpteen number of times, I can change between the formats on the fly while playing and Cds sound way better in terms of dynamics and soundstage, not only excelling in details!

You just need a transparent /resolving speakers to make out the difference. I've ended this doubt many a times for myself. Interestingly factory ripped Mp3 Cds sound almost comparable to loseless format!
I use Free:ac or WMP to rip Cds if that matters.

CD 6006 DAC excels over the DAC in my AVR Marantz SR 7010 by a decent margin. Though AVR DAC is superior on paper, with dsd and Flac compatibility along with Wav files, it doesn't mean a better SQ.
Now DAC in the Cdp vs dedicated DAC, depends upon the quality of external DAC. For eg with Schiit modi multibit there's hardly any advantages over cdp DAC, whereas schiit Gungnir used to consistently outperform Cdp DAC. Hope this helps. If you have a good CD collection go for a better Cdp. Otherwise getting a better DAC is a good option.

If you are using USB to play via your DAC then its already not same comparison, a Coax/BNC input in CDP would have been better. I have found USB implementation to be quite bad even with high end DACs so cant expect that to be of great quality on an entry level CDP.
FYI I dont use speakers to do DAC testing, room gain plays lot of role in final SQ of speakers and i dont have properly treated room. I prefer headphones for that..

 

[drkrack]

If you are using USB to play via your DAC then its already not same comparison, a Coax/BNC input in CDP would have been better. I have found USB implementation to be quite bad even with high end DACs so cant expect that to be of great quality on an entry level CDP.
FYI I dont use speakers to do DAC testing, room gain plays lot of role in final SQ of speakers and i dont have properly treated room. I prefer headphones for that..

TL;DR In a,
better USB player with
Better USB implementation (better than high end DACs)
And more controlled Room Environment ; Loseless files will be equivalent to the Cds they're ripped from, while Cds are played in entry level Cd player for comparison ; I think I can fully agree with you on that.

FYI mine is a treated room and I'm currently considering on investing 60k for PS audio LANrover to get rid of USB woes , after investing 60k on Compact PC and DAC. I'm still chasing the dream of better SQ from USB audio.
Other than the user friendliness of ability to select any files to play with custom playlist options, I don't prefer loseless SQ wise.

 

[kartikay]

TL;DR In a,
better USB player with
Better USB implementation (better than high end DACs)
And more controlled Room Environment ; Loseless files will be equivalent to the Cds they're ripped from, while Cds are played in entry level Cd player for comparison ; I think I can fully agree with you on that.

FYI mine is a treated room and I'm currently considering on investing 60k for PS audio LANrover to get rid of USB woes , after investing 60k on Compact PC and DAC. I'm still chasing the dream of better SQ from USB audio.
Other than the user friendliness of ability to select any files to play with custom playlist options, I don't prefer loseless SQ wise.

there are other options to get better performance with USB, as even if you clean up USB signal, you cant change USB receiver inside the DAC which I feel is main bottleneck in USB audio path. Easier (and maybe cheaper ) way would be to use a USB to Coax converter such as Schiit Eitr, Allo Digione to avoid using USB input on the DAC itself. I dont know if you have tried it but I found coax input on Mimby to be far better than its USB input (even after using a reclocker in the path).