Dedicated HT Room Setup Help

[iluvmusic]

Hi everyone. I am from Ghaziabad and a newbie in the AV field and on this forum.
This is just my II post and I am sorry, It is going to be a long one.

We are having our new home built and have planned to setup a dedicated HT room. The building is still at a very early stage. We are planning to get it ready by next diwali. I am here to get guidance on how to move forward with the whole project from pre-wiring to finish. We are interested in getting the whole work done professionally rather than it being a DIY project. Hence my current goal is to get a good dealer, get pre-wiring done and have a good idea about the equipment and costs.

A. Budget: Around 3-4l (max) for the equipment. 9l for the whole room including equipment, seating, flooring, acoustics, interior etc.

B. Usage preferences: Around 70% movies, 10% sports channel, 20% gaming.

C. Audio Preferences: I am no audiophile but like to have a wide soundstage, punchy bass and treble that just remains a part of the whole audio and never seems to stand out or be harsh. The bass should not get muddled as it makes the dialogues unclear.

D. Area: The room is 24ft x 17 ft x 11ft. Its on the second floor with big windows on two adjacent sides of the wall. I want to have a sitting of around 12-15 people (I guess that should be possible). I am planning to put recliners in the front row and sets of two-seater sofas in the other two rows. (Since most of the times only 4-5 people will be watching, there wont be much complaining) The room is at a very early stage right now. Plaster, conduits, flooring etc. all are remaining.

E. Systems Auditioned: I have only visited 'Sight & Sound' in GK. I auditioned the following 5.1 setup:-

• Dali Ikon 6 Front floor stander
• Dali Ikon Vocal 2 center speaker
• Dali Ikon 1 surround
• Dali Ikon Sub
• Denon AVR-1910
• Panasonic PT-AX200E
• Screen Da-lite 8ft. Wide- 16:9

I have attached the price quotation.
I liked the sound very much but was a little dissatisfied with the bass. I found it a bit lacking in punch. He (Mr. Rajan Gera) also showed the Dali Concept package, but I found the Ikon much better in comparison. Overall the experience was very good and I am quite satisfied with the equipment.
I am also planning to visit 'Bass n treble' and 'ProFX' in the coming week.

So, here are my few questions:
1. What things do I need to take care of while pre-wiring? Should I finalize the equipment right now or can I still buy any setup even 10 months later?
- I am planning to get cables laid out for a 7.2 setup.

2. Any suggestions regarding the setup? Can I get something similar or better at a lesser price? I am thinking of making it 7.1 as many PS3 games are 7.1. Will it be worth the price and what satellites should I get?

3. How important is acoustic treatment?
- As there will be a lot of seating and I am thinking of covering the whole walls and windows with 4mm foam and fabric (as suggested by the dealer) for the theater like feel, Mr. Rajan suggested that there wont be any need for acoustic treatment. Also I am going to cover only the non-seating half portion of the room with rug, rest of the floor is going to be wooden.

4. Do I have to get anything special done if I go for a 3D projector? What is better : a 720p projector with better brightness and contrast or a 1080p with slightly less (say PT-200E or Optoma HD20)?

5. How much discount can i expect to get as the prices quoted seem to be pretty high(Quotation attached)? I would really like to get everything done from a single source.

6. How is the warranty and service on such products?

And any other suggestion regarding anything is deeply appreciated.:clapping:

PS: Please forgive me and do tell me if I have made some mistake regarding the forum rules.
PPS: Thanks for reading such a lengthy post!

 

[jitubisht]

Some quick ones:
1. Price are definitely high. For example Dali Ikon 6 should be around 68K.
2. Do not go for the Dali Sub. Its the weak link, for that price you can get HSU VTF 2 Mk3. One of our forum members has that combination is very satisfied with it.
3. If you are going to use a lot of bluray stuff (read 1080p stuff), there is no doubt the 1080p projector will have a lots of value add.
4. 3D or no 3D, thats totally upto you. I would rather wait for the 3D stuff to mature.
5. Your room size is quite good and should be enough for 12-15 seater. YES! The acoustic treatment is a MUST. Please contact Lakozy dealers based in Delhi (They are present in the forum - Ashish Kesarwani and Sumit)
6. Although Dali Ikons you auditioned are AWESOME (i have the exact same 5 speakers), I would encourage you to audition other speakers. PSB, Monitor Audio, etc.
7. Denon 1910 will be the weaklink, please consider 2310 at the least.

Regards
Jitu

 

[nshankar]

My thoughts as below:-

1. What things do I need to take care of while pre-wiring? Should I finalize the equipment right now or can I still buy any setup even 10 months later?
- I am planning to get cables laid out for a 7.2 setup.

Pre-wire for 7.2 setup. Buy equipment later.

3. How important is acoustic treatment?
- As there will be a lot of seating and I am thinking of covering the whole walls and windows with 4mm foam and fabric (as suggested by the dealer) for the theater like feel, Mr. Rajan suggested that there wont be any need for acoustic treatment. Also I am going to cover only the non-seating half portion of the room with rug, rest of the floor is going to be wooden.

Please consider acoustic treatment.

Also as mentioned, consider 23xx or better amp.

 

[mridulgoel]

Bro

Do let me know, if you are looking for some One Room Automation setup as well for the HT Room or for your complete house...??

We are automation experts integrating Audio, Video, Lighting, Security, AC Controls and Curtain Controls along with equipment controls...
We even provide details and products on Power Management and Cabling Management...

Reg : Home Theater Dali IKON is a good choice... but i think you need a better amp... higher than 1911/1910...

Cables : Nothing better than QED...

Seating : Mix them with Recliners, Loungers and Bean Bags...

Acoustics Treatment : Not much with AV dealers, get a professional, there are 2 in Delhi, google them... And tell them your room details and your sound preference, accordingly they will provide you details.. and yes dont forget to tell them your Interior details as well, as the stuff used in for Interiors is also a part of treatment...

Projector & Screen : If its a dedicated room then prefer Fixed Frame Screen, always better, get Dalite.. Sight and Sound sell those...
Projector you see...depends on your liking...

Please let me know if you need any help, you can mail me, i can assist you with it...

 

[audiodelic]

Acoustics Treatment : Not much with AV dealers, get a professional, there are 2 in Delhi, google them... And tell them your room details and your sound preference, accordingly they will provide you details.. and yes dont forget to tell them your Interior details as well, as the stuff used in for Interiors is also a part of treatment...

Can you give contact of these two acoustic treatment professionals in new delhi ....or tell me their names so that i can use google to get contact info ?

 

[mridulgoel]

Can you give contact of these two acoustic treatment professionals in new delhi ....or tell me their names so that i can use google to get contact info ?

Buddy

Just goto Anutone website and search them in there Dealer / Installer list...

I will have to ask my Acoustic Consultant... I got the design done for Gemini Traders, though he didnt used those accurately...

 

[iluvmusic]

Thanx to all for your time and quick replies.
Sorry couldn't reply soon as my HardDisk got corrupted.

I visited Bass n Treble today and based on yours and Mr. Danny's suggestions I have conclude that:

1. I am going to get only conduiting done for 7.2 setup right now.

2. Will start hunting for equipment only when the room is near completion.

3. I am not going for soundproofing (The windows are anyway going to be covered from the inside). I need acoustic treatment only for enhancing the sound quality.

Now I need to find someone to : A) Provide layout for cabling. B) Do acoustic treatment on the walls.

So my questions now are:

1. Can I get both done from a single source ? Pls suggest dealers along with contact details.
@Mridul : Couldn't find any such links on anutone website.:sad:
& We haven't decided to go for home automation, but will surely tell you if something comes up in HT room or elsewhere. BTW do you do complete home multimedia networking??

2. I guess I would need acoustic panels now only on some specific portions of the walls and not the whole room. In that case can I get the positions marked as told by the cabling engineer & finalize them according to my interior design later?

3. Any idea how much the consultation and cabling guidance should cost?

Pls correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

 

[marsilians]

Great idea to start planning a dedicated HT room. You have a large room to work the budget.

Before you decide on the equipment, make sure your wiring is done properly as well as in some ways "future proof" as you may end up changing the layout and what not.

THere are a number of posts with pictures on the forum re: the HT setup, you just need to search. There are some members who have gone through the same experience as you and can provide additional insights.

For starters, things to keep in mind:

1. Wire for both, projector based AV setup as well as TV.
2. Run all cables through conduits - brand recommendations will come in soon.
3. Have dedicated wiring done from the source in your home to your room. This will save a lot on power management later.
4. (very important), make sure to use fire retardant cables and conduits (yes, Ihave seen some where this was not taken care and did not end up satisfactorily)
5. Avoid sharp turns (90 degrees) in the layout.
6. Have boxes setup along with way in case you run into issues and have to fiddle with wiring later.
7. Don't mix power cables and A/V cables. They ahve to run perpendicular to each other.
8. Put lots of outlets along with wall (atleast 2 each on shorter walls and 3 on the longer ones)
9. Make sure to plan for lighting as well as air conditioning as you build the room - skylights are neat as well as backdrop lighting.


QED, Blue Jeans, Chord, Bainbridge are worth looking into.

Finally and most importantly do you have an idea of how you want to set up the seating and layout. If not, we can provide some layouts. Start with this in the first place.

Equipment can be bought after your house has been built and dust has settled!

For your budget, my suggestion would be go for separates. (pre-amp and power amp). It will provide the best bang for the buck. That journey is a long one and worth waiting for

 

[mridulgoel]

@ Marsilians : Hey one good point you told about the 90 degree curve...

Guys in order to curve the cables, instead of using L joints, use a big stretching spring (the one used in Gyms for exercise) easily available in market, and then put them into conduits and then bend the conduit itself... This will save the cable for long run and makes it easy to pull the cables as well...

@ iluvmusic : I will get the details from my Acoustic Consultant and get back asap...
Sorry, i am a bit confused on your complete house multimedia, maybe i am a bit confused by this term... kindly elaborate...
Regarding Automation, even if you dont want to go for it for any reasons, i will suggest to get the wiring done and prepare your house for e-home, for the same for future purpose, so that whenever and wherever you want to install it, wiring will not be an issue... Complete House wiring for Audio, Video Lighting and Security will be not more than Rs.1L inc consultation and drawings and site visit and ofcoarse cables...
Reg : HT installation, send me the details once you finalise on interiors i will give you a quote than you can decide on the same...
Finally regarding the QED cables for HT, please let me know, will send you details on the same as well...

 

[iluvmusic]

Great idea to start planning a dedicated HT room. You have a large room to work the budget.

Before you decide on the equipment, make sure your wiring is done properly as well as in some ways "future proof" as you may end up changing the layout and what not.

THere are a number of posts with pictures on the forum re: the HT setup, you just need to search. There are some members who have gone through the same experience as you and can provide additional insights.

For starters, things to keep in mind:

1. Wire for both, projector based AV setup as well as TV.
2. Run all cables through conduits - brand recommendations will come in soon.
3. Have dedicated wiring done from the source in your home to your room. This will save a lot on power management later.
4. (very important), make sure to use fire retardant cables and conduits (yes, Ihave seen some where this was not taken care and did not end up satisfactorily)
5. Avoid sharp turns (90 degrees) in the layout.
6. Have boxes setup along with way in case you run into issues and have to fiddle with wiring later.
7. Don't mix power cables and A/V cables. They ahve to run perpendicular to each other.
8. Put lots of outlets along with wall (atleast 2 each on shorter walls and 3 on the longer ones)
9. Make sure to plan for lighting as well as air conditioning as you build the room - skylights are neat as well as backdrop lighting.


QED, Blue Jeans, Chord, Bainbridge are worth looking into.

Finally and most importantly do you have an idea of how you want to set up the seating and layout. If not, we can provide some layouts. Start with this in the first place.

Equipment can be bought after your house has been built and dust has settled!

For your budget, my suggestion would be go for separates. (pre-amp and power amp). It will provide the best bang for the buck. That journey is a long one and worth waiting for

Thanks for ur suggestions. Will surely take care of them.
Can u pls elaborate points 1 & 3.
1. Do you mean to get wiring done in case I switch from a projector solution to normal TV ? That means getting an HDMI cable from the AVR to the position of the screen . Right?

3. What kind of power management are we talking about exactly?

Regarding the seating arrangement:
There will be 3 rows on steps.
It is going to be 4-5 recliners in the front row.
3 twin-seating sofas in the II row.
3 twin-seating sofas in the III row.
With aisle space on one side of the seating.

 

[iluvmusic]

@ Marsilians : Hey one good point you told about the 90 degree curve...

Guys in order to curve the cables, instead of using L joints, use a big stretching spring (the one used in Gyms for exercise) easily available in market, and then put them into conduits and then bend the conduit itself... This will save the cable for long run and makes it easy to pull the cables as well...

@ iluvmusic : I will get the details from my Acoustic Consultant and get back asap...
Sorry, i am a bit confused on your complete house multimedia, maybe i am a bit confused by this term... kindly elaborate...
Regarding Automation, even if you dont want to go for it for any reasons, i will suggest to get the wiring done and prepare your house for e-home, for the same for future purpose, so that whenever and wherever you want to install it, wiring will not be an issue... Complete House wiring for Audio, Video Lighting and Security will be not more than Rs.1L inc consultation and drawings and site visit and ofcoarse cables...
Reg : HT installation, send me the details once you finalise on interiors i will give you a quote than you can decide on the same...
Finally regarding the QED cables for HT, please let me know, will send you details on the same as well...

By complete home multimedia, I mean that I have a central server and be able to play anything stored there in any room including Audio & Video.

 

[mridulgoel]

By complete home multimedia, I mean that I have a central server and be able to play anything stored there in any room including Audio & Video.

Yes, thats what we call it as AV automation... its part of Home Automation, and is an independent system as well...

 

[iluvmusic]

Yes, thats what we call it as AV automation... its part of Home Automation, and is an independent system as well...

That is smthing I want to go for sure.
I am already getting LAN wire installed throughout. I am planning to use WD, Xtreamer or some other players like those for it.
Is there some better solution? I dont want to shell out a bomb on it. Also I am going tp use it in 5-6 rooms.

 

[iluvmusic]

Also is there a way around installing separate Set Top Boxes for each TV and still be able to access different channels on each?

 

[mridulgoel]

That is smthing I want to go for sure.
I am already getting LAN wire installed throughout. I am planning to use WD, Xtreamer or some other players like those for it.
Is there some better solution? I dont want to shell out a bomb on it. Also I am going tp use it in 5-6 rooms.

Buddy

Dont just install the Cat5e cable as it is, you need to go in for proper wiring, else, later it will be an issue...

Yes you can have seperate Set Top Box for all rooms, all kept in one server location, and can be accessed from any room, and apart from that you can have six more sources that will be common in all the rooms...
You can have upto 8 zones with one server...

If you can email me your AutoCAD i should be able to provide you with a quote...and other Details of how the system works...

 

[pdhanwada]

One other thing to think about is in wall speakers. They are very popular with HT for movies. Most of the conventional/Traditional folks dont like because of following thins

1. Cost is more for the same quality.

2. There are not many dealers who supply in wall speakers.

if you love music definately then you should go buy conventional speakers.

If you plan go for INWALL speakers more planning needs to be done in civil work front.

Thanks
Pandu

 

[iluvmusic]

Buddy

Dont just install the Cat5e cable as it is, you need to go in for proper wiring, else, later it will be an issue...

Yes you can have seperate Set Top Box for all rooms, all kept in one server location, and can be accessed from any room, and apart from that you can have six more sources that will be common in all the rooms...
You can have upto 8 zones with one server...

If you can email me your AutoCAD i should be able to provide you with a quote...and other Details of how the system works...

What kind of problems with cat5 exactly??

For the CAD file ( check ur PM)
Pls elaborate the 6 more sources and 8 zones concept

 

[iluvmusic]

One other thing to think about is in wall speakers. They are very popular with HT for movies. Most of the conventional/Traditional folks dont like because of following thins

1. Cost is more for the same quality.

2. There are not many dealers who supply in wall speakers.

if you love music definately then you should go buy conventional speakers.

If you plan go for INWALL speakers more planning needs to be done in civil work front.

Thanks
Pandu

Thanks for the suggestion but I will rather save money for other stuff
BTW how much costlier are we talking about for a package similar to the Dali set?

 

[mridulgoel]

What kind of problems with cat5 exactly??

For the CAD file ( check ur PM)
Pls elaborate the 6 more sources and 8 zones concept

Yups, i got your CAD file, will take a look, and send you a rough estimate...

In AV Automation, there can be 6 Common Source Input and 8 Main Zone Output in each Hub...
These 6 common sources with Video will be common and available in all the 8 rooms, all can watch / listen same thing or different sources as per there choice...
All the 8 Main Zones can have upto 2 Sub / Extended Zones, which can be controlled (volume / On/off) seperately, for places like washrooms, etc...

Apart from that, our system gives the flexibility of providing one local / private input in each room, that can be used for Personal STB or Local Music or something special you want to watch...
We take care of our clients well, dont we...

These system can further be extended to control Lighting, ACs, Security (CCTV), Gates, Curtains, etc...

And we even have a Commander (Wireless Touchscreen), that can control upto 8 main area of your house...

So in all we can @utomate the complete house with Audio / Video / Lighting / Security / AC / Curtain controls and a lot more...

And most imp thing, the power consumption for 8 Zones Audio inc. Server / Hub and Cable power consumption, our system intakes in total of 130w only...
And all the products are made up of recyclable and green environment friendly material...

For more information visit.. Systemline ...

 

[mridulgoel]

Our complete System works on Cat5e...

There are no issues with Cat5e, but just the thing is that you should know, from where the cables need to be run, and till what location, and how many... Secondly what cables connect where, and which point is required for say Keypad, Local Input, Speaker, Touchscreen, Hub, Source, etc...

And make sure not to run Cat5e and Power Cable in parallel sequence...
There should be a gap of atleast 1ft between both the conduits, else Cat5e, will intake the magnetic flow and disrupt the transmission..