Dedicated sub or floorstanders?

[Deepaksharma86]

Hello there.
I’ve been using my current system for a while in a large living room (about 20 by 30 ft). Everything going well but now I feel the need for a better, more pronounced bass output.

Current setup
1) Leak Stereo 130
2) Q acoustics 3020i
3) Wiim Mini streamer
4) Yamaha 3072 htib (tried using the subwoofer from this with the 3020i but made absolutely no difference)

Do think my bookshelf speakers push quite low but think a dedicated sub or floorstanders would do a much better job of improving the dynamics in such a large space.

Any inputs on the above dilemma?

Considering a good quality sub will cost well over 50-60k, I’m just confused if it makes sense to just get decent floorstanders for around 70-80k instead? Not sure if a dedicated subwoofer with the above bookshelves will be better vs a standalone floorstanders.

Thanks so much in advance.

 

[Mahi]

Hello there.
I’ve been using my current system for a while in a large living room (about 20 by 30 ft). Everything going well but now I feel the need for a better, more pronounced bass output.

Current setup
1) Leak Stereo 130
2) Q acoustics 3020i
3) Wiim Mini streamer
4) Yamaha 3072 htib (tried using the subwoofer from this with the 3020i but made absolutely no difference)

Do think my bookshelf speakers push quite low but think a dedicated sub or floorstanders would do a much better job of improving the dynamics in such a large space.

Any inputs on the above dilemma?

Considering a good quality sub will cost well over 50-60k, I’m just confused if it makes sense to just get decent floorstanders for around 70-80k instead? Not sure if a dedicated subwoofer with the above bookshelves will be better vs a standalone floorstanders.

Thanks so much in advance.

20×40 = 600sq you need good quality floor standing speakers # example polkaudio audio RTI 9 floorstanding speakers #

 

[amrutmhatre90]

tried using the subwoofer from this with the 3020i but made absolutely no difference

Did you make changes in speaker configuration? changing speakers from Large to small ? crossover to 80hz ?
Surprising you did not notice a difference.

 

[efernand1]

Hello there.
I’ve been using my current system for a while in a large living room (about 20 by 30 ft). Everything going well but now I feel the need for a better, more pronounced bass output.

Current setup
1) Leak Stereo 130
2) Q acoustics 3020i
3) Wiim Mini streamer
4) Yamaha 3072 htib (tried using the subwoofer from this with the 3020i but made absolutely no difference)

Do think my bookshelf speakers push quite low but think a dedicated sub or floorstanders would do a much better job of improving the dynamics in such a large space.

Any inputs on the above dilemma?

Considering a good quality sub will cost well over 50-60k, I’m just confused if it makes sense to just get decent floorstanders for around 70-80k instead? Not sure if a dedicated subwoofer with the above bookshelves will be better vs a standalone floorstanders.

Thanks so much in advance.

Adding a sub to the setup will be better. Most Floorstanders which can really perform well cost a lot.

Look at Polk HTS 10 or HTS 12 subs....audition at Profx to decide

 

[sandeepmohan]

I have a floor stander and guess what, it needed a sub. You are likely better of staying with your existing loudspeaker and supporting them with a compact sub woofer, instead of two monster sized floor standers. The thing is, a sub woofer can cost as much as a good pair of floor standers so don't be fooled into thinking you are getting better bang for your buck with a floor stand. You are not. A big speaker needs space (Which you have) but its not necessary they get down to the levels of bass you are expecting.

To get deep bass, you need a giant box with large drivers and room big enough to allow them to push all that air. Not all of us have the space nor want to deal with 12"+ drivers.

A sub woofer is like magic in this situation. You don't want to deal with bulk and you want to retain the excellent separation capabilities of your current stand mounts. Careful with selection though. If your amplifier does not have a low pass or dedicated sub output, you want to buy one which can accept speaker level inputs. Also; don't go ballistic and buy the biggest and most powerful sub woofer you can get for your money. Focus on quality. A 8" - 10" with about 200 watts should do the job. Look around for quality used sub woofers too.

 

[Deepaksharma86]

Did you make changes in speaker configuration? changing speakers from Large to small ? crossover to 80hz ?
Surprising you did not notice a difference.

Was using the pre outs from the leak stereo 130 which doesn’t have these settings. The sub has volume controls only.

 

[grindstone]

Free opinion: Big rooms like big speakers and vice-versa. It's not that one can't do other things, it's just easiest way to energize a big space (and has room to let them do what they do at LF). Smoothing of bass in the "modal region" is another separate issue; if you want to listen all over the place and have LF be pretty smooth, distributing sources ala Todd Welti or Earl Geddes are sane ways to approach that. The cheapest/easiest thing to do to energize the whole space for reasonably "dedicated" listening positions is a pair of corner horns or Cornwalls or something of the ilk. Two sources in a big room like that will still leave "bass" (call it <150Hz for discussion here) a sort of undulating checkerboard that's frequency-dependent if you're picky--so it would still benefit from some additional LF sources positioned elsewhere if you want it smoother than one can get with a couple speakers. It's a personal choice about what you're after (and how hard) vs. the implementation pain. Little speakers in big rooms always sound somewhat like "toys" to me--and it's clear that it's a little speaker trying hard to make "music sounds". Big speakers take the "toy" bit away and replace it with a wall of music headed right at you. Dynamics come for free with big+high-efficiency. If you want bass smoother all over the room, even big speakers benefit from (require) the same addition of distributed LF sources (subs). It really is about what you want--I know people who love the built-in (ceiling, wall, etc) speakers and big rack-closet pro home systems because they're closer to "domestically invisible", etc. There are a ton of tradeoffs with complexity & amps and so on--and we are all different. Please keep us posted if you feel so-inclined.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hello there.
I’ve been using my current system for a while in a large living room (about 20 by 30 ft). Everything going well but now I feel the need for a better, more pronounced bass output.

Current setup
1) Leak Stereo 130
2) Q acoustics 3020i
3) Wiim Mini streamer
4) Yamaha 3072 htib (tried using the subwoofer from this with the 3020i but made absolutely no difference)

Do think my bookshelf speakers push quite low but think a dedicated sub or floorstanders would do a much better job of improving the dynamics in such a large space.

Any inputs on the above dilemma?

Considering a good quality sub will cost well over 50-60k, I’m just confused if it makes sense to just get decent floorstanders for around 70-80k instead? Not sure if a dedicated subwoofer with the above bookshelves will be better vs a standalone floorstanders.

Thanks so much in advance.

Seperate sub is best.

1. Floor standers that can match a sub in bass will cost more than a lot of cars.
2. Your room has 2 locations. One where the bass will best couple to the room. Second where your speakers will give you the best sound stage and imaging. Sadly both these locations are usually never in the same place. So best to keep subs and speakers seperate in their ideal locations.
3. You can start with one sub, with your setreo channels summed in mono.
4. In future you can use 2 subs in stereo. Which should really open up the sound stage.

The only PITA is getting the sub integration right. Unless you want to use dsp of some sort to achieve that, best is to go with subs with high level speaker inputs like REL. Once we factor in the cost of a dsp input + other brand sub. The slightly more expensive REL will appear the cheaper option . Not to mention that it is better than most for 2 channel music, where speed matters more than bass heft.

 

[spirovious]

A good floor standers will sound much better than bookshelf as room is large. But then you need it better specs like 3way or hitting low below 40hzs. Budget floor standers may not go low.Again driver size will matter.Adding sub before going for floor stander will be good move.

 

[Smadhu]

Seperate sub is best.

1. Floor standers that can match a sub in bass will cost more than a lot of cars.
2. Your room has 2 locations. One where the bass will best couple to the room. Second where your speakers will give you the best sound stage and imaging. Sadly both these locations are usually never in the same place. So best to keep subs and speakers seperate in their ideal locations.
3. You can start with one sub, with your setreo channels summed in mono.
4. In future you can use 2 subs in stereo. Which should really open up the sound stage.

The only PITA is getting the sub integration right. Unless you want to use dsp of some sort to achieve that, best is to go with subs with high level speaker inputs like REL. Once we factor in the cost of a dsp input + other brand sub. The slightly more expensive REL will appear the cheaper option . Not to mention that it is better than most for 2 channel music, where speed matters more than bass heft.

+ 1

I bought a floor stander precisely to avoid the subwoofer. Thanks to @GeorgeB , I home auditioned REL T9iand was floored. I realized what I was missing ended up with S510.

I don't think I can make do without a sub unless my listening room is extremely small.

The sub has been one of the best upgrades. It is not just the bass it adds magic to all the frequencies and also the soundstage. I don't know about two but content with one.

Sub integration was not an issue with REL at all. I am using their high level connection. Budget would be an issue with REL.

The speakers need to be appropriate to the room size. Those small standpoint would not be able to produce room filling sound unless the listening space is a portion of the room. Buying a room size appropriate speaker is essential.

 

[Mayasandra_l]

My experience has been that a bookshelf speakers for a large room would not be adequate at all. I had KEF q300 that played in almost the same room dimension that OP mentioned and it did sound anemic. I then moved my Indiq floor standers in place of the KEFs and they could give me a room filling sound. I did connect my Polk sub for a while with the floor standers but decided to disconnect them. Getting the placement right for the subwoofer in my room and it to match with my FS turned out to be a Royal PITA. The subs only play with Indiqs when my son wants to watch some movies where all that is needed is Dhoom dhadaka .

I am now happy with my Indiqs FS being driven by Audiolab 6000 (for music) in the big room while KEFs are being driven happily by the Wilsenton R8 in the small room.

Learning for me...big speakers for big rooms and small ones for small rooms.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

My experience has been that a bookshelf speakers for a large room would not be adequate at all. I had KEF q300 that played in almost the same room dimension that OP mentioned and it did sound anemic. I then moved my Indiq floor standers in place of the KEFs and they could give me a room filling sound. I did connect my Polk sub for a while with the floor standers but decided to disconnect them. Getting the placement right for the subwoofer in my room and it to match with my FS turned out to be a Royal PITA. The subs only play with Indiqs when my son wants to watch some movies where all that is needed is Dhoom dhadaka .

I am now happy with my Indiqs FS being driven by Audiolab 6000 (for music) in the big room while KEFs are being driven happily by the Wilsenton R8 in the small room.

Learning for me...big speakers for big rooms and small ones for small rooms.

I did miss out the room size part, in my usual hurry. Yeah that's a big room to fill. However it will also depend on the listening distance. But to fill that amount of space properly, we probably need floor standers + subwoofers too.

 

[chillumphile]

I have a floor stander and guess what, it needed a sub. You are likely better of staying with your existing loudspeaker and supporting them with a compact sub woofer, instead of two monster sized floor standers. The thing is, a sub woofer can cost as much as a good pair of floor standers so don't be fooled into thinking you are getting better bang for your buck with a floor stand. You are not. A big speaker needs space (Which you have) but its not necessary they get down to the levels of bass you are expecting.

To get deep bass, you need a giant box with large drivers and room big enough to allow them to push all that air. Not all of us have the space nor want to deal with 12"+ drivers.

A sub woofer is like magic in this situation. You don't want to deal with bulk and you want to retain the excellent separation capabilities of your current stand mounts. Careful with selection though. If your amplifier does not have a low pass or dedicated sub output, you want to buy one which can accept speaker level inputs. Also; don't go ballistic and buy the biggest and most powerful sub woofer you can get for your money. Focus on quality. A 8" - 10" with about 200 watts should do the job. Look around for quality used sub woofers too.

I am getting a deal on Klipsch RW10 for about 22k.

What do you think? If you are aware, it is probably decades old.

 

[Nagaraj S]

If the room were big, I would definitely go for a floor standards, but with at least 8 inch woofers to fill the room. Not those with the puny 5.5 or 6.5 inch drivers, unless it’s the likes of those mighty (and very expensive) KEFs or Spendors. Few well known floor standers come with 8 inch woofers- Monitor Audio, Fyne Audio, Tannoy (the XT 8F is not available in India), and I think Klipsch and/or Polk. There could be others too. I am very specific about bigger drivers on the floor standers for the bass part, but that’s only me. With large woofers and adequate power, it’s less likely that you want a subwoofer for music.

 

[k-pad]

Hello there.
I’ve been using my current system for a while in a large living room (about 20 by 30 ft). Everything going well but now I feel the need for a better, more pronounced bass output.

Current setup
1) Leak Stereo 130
2) Q acoustics 3020i
3) Wiim Mini streamer
4) Yamaha 3072 htib (tried using the subwoofer from this with the 3020i but made absolutely no difference)

Do think my bookshelf speakers push quite low but think a dedicated sub or floorstanders would do a much better job of improving the dynamics in such a large space.

Any inputs on the above dilemma?

Considering a good quality sub will cost well over 50-60k, I’m just confused if it makes sense to just get decent floorstanders for around 70-80k instead? Not sure if a dedicated subwoofer with the above bookshelves will be better vs a standalone floorstanders.

Thanks so much in advance.

Sir, straight up, home truths:
1. For that room size, yes, you need massive floorstanders, with at least eight-inch woofers.
2. You need at least a good 15-inch sub even for near-field.
These two are not mutually exclusive. You need both for a good experience in a room that size.
Regards

 

[k-pad]

I am getting a deal on Klipsch RW10 for about 22k.

What do you think? If you are aware, it is probably decades old.

won't suggest plonking hard-earned money on such an old model
You'll get a current Klipsch at around 40-50K

 

[eastofthesun]

Hi , A good set of floor standers should do the job. Somehow have never been convinced about using a sub for music listening. But then again thats my liking and leaning. Also the synergy of your electronics and speakers matters a lot.
Cheers !
Anand

 

[MaSh]

Thats a BIG room. How are far do you sit from your setup? How do you like the Mids and Highs from your current system? If they do these well then all you need is a Sub to boost the Lows. Definitely invest in a Good Sub and that will improve the whole frequency range.

MaSh

 

[argho]

What is your budget ?

For a room of that size, a pair of Wharfedale Lintons would be great. Would also pair well with your Leak amp, and would not need a sub.

To be clear, I agree with others that most floorstanders also need a sub. The Lintons are the only speakers I have heard, where I have not felt the need for a sub.

However, if you do not want to spend that much, just buy a sub for now. Dont buy a huge powerful HT sub. Buy a 8 inch sub meant for music. Will make a big difference.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Both needs DSP to manage the bass region to sound accurate at the listening point. Bookshelves + Subwoofers has the advantage of adjustable height by changing the stand height. So this can have a good impact in soundstage. Also, in many rooms, at the spot where the sounstage, imaging And everything is right, bass still may not be th best. With subs, you can place them at a different spot and make everything sound right(theoretically). Towers which has good bass extension, sound more coherent if it works in your room. Many towers nowadays have adjustable ports to mitigate this problem