DIY 3/4 way ANALOG ACTIVE XO discussion

[trittya]

Greetings to all of HFV. A special 'Mubaarak' and greetings to our Muslim brethren on the recent commencement of the holy month.
Its been quite some time since I posted here, mainly because of professional and worldly pursuits. I do hope to make up for lost time in the few weeks to come ie vacation time.
Having said that, I daresay that I am in a bit of a DIY stereophile bother here. Before I go ahead on that, a small audio intro of yours truly, for the benefit of those who don't know . . .
* I am a technically challenged NOOB, especially so when it comes to electronics.
* I am adequate on the common-sense front and DO understand a thing or two about acoustics and mechanics.
* I believe in getting more for less by DIY/custom-builds.
* I do NOT either believe OR ignore brands, I believe/ignore either the design or the designer(s).
* I have no money to throw around, its hard-earned stuff and always in short supply . . . .

Now, my stereo beliefs :-
* I am sick, tired, bored and fatigued listening to 2 way/3 way #@*%$! PASSIVE speaker systems.
* I believe in either speaker cabinet designs with wide(read 'full') range drivers or multi-way designs with ACTIVE XOs.
* I HATE bass-reflex ported designs and will never ever own/build that sort again.

* My design/topology preferences for speaker cabinet design are (in NO particular order):-
- Transmission line
- Dipole
- Sealed aka acoustic suspension
- Horn loaded (especially FLH cabinets)
- Combination of the above

* I DO believe that form must follow function.
Done with the prelims, lets now get down to brasstacks. I want to go in for a 3/4 way active stereo system with ANALOG CROSSOVERS. (I am not a big fan of stuff like either Behringer DCX2496 whatever OR of the mini DSP.)

I HAVE shorlisted a few 'varied' designs and a few drivers from partsexpress and/or madisound etc. Regardless of that, the '"RANGE" of XO points has more or less decided both for 3 way as well as a 4 way design. I do gather that the final design and these XO pts will have little, if any, bearing on these XO pts. Thats part of the reason that these "ranges" of mine are quite broad and flexible. I have been told that altering XO pts is just a matter of switching values of resistors and capacitors etc for those who know . . . .(I don't)

3 way XO ranges
80 to 250 hz
2 to 4 Khz

4 way XO ranges
70 to 120 hz
250 to 1200 hz
3.5 to 7 Khz

Guys, I am aware of this
3-Way Active Crossover-DIY Kit

* Can any kind soul suggest/guide me to something more contemporary and optimal?
* I am not much good with a soldering iron but know people who can DIFOM (do-it-for-me)

Many thanks in anticipation.

Cheerio, ALL.

 

[trittya]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Over 12 hours, 84 views and not a single post! :sad:
Not very "ACTIVE", are we, eh?

 

[kapvin]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Greetings to all of HFV. A special 'Mubaarak' and greetings to our Muslim brethren on the recent commencement of the holy month.
Its been quite some time since I posted here, mainly because of professional and worldly pursuits. I do hope to make up for lost time in the few weeks to come ie vacation time.
Having said that, I daresay that I am in a bit of a DIY stereophile bother here. Before I go ahead on that, a small audio intro of yours truly, for the benefit of those who don't know . . .
* I am a technically challenged NOOB, especially so when it comes to electronics.
* I am adequate on the common-sense front and DO understand a thing or two about acoustics and mechanics.
* I believe in getting more for less by DIY/custom-builds.
* I do NOT either believe OR ignore brands, I believe/ignore either the design or the designer(s).
* I have no money to throw around, its hard-earned stuff and always in short supply . . . .

Now, my stereo beliefs :-
* I am sick, tired, bored and fatigued listening to 2 way/3 way #@*%$! PASSIVE speaker systems.
* I believe in either speaker cabinet designs with wide(read 'full') range drivers or multi-way designs with ACTIVE XOs.
* I HATE bass-reflex ported designs and will never ever own/build that sort again.

* My design/topology preferences for speaker cabinet design are (in NO particular order):-
- Transmission line
- Dipole
- Sealed aka acoustic suspension
- Horn loaded (especially FLH cabinets)
- Combination of the above

* I DO believe that form must follow function.
Done with the prelims, lets now get down to brasstacks. I want to go in for a 3/4 way active stereo system with ANALOG CROSSOVERS. (I am not a big fan of stuff like either Behringer DCX2496 whatever OR of the mini DSP.)

I HAVE shorlisted a few 'varied' designs and a few drivers from partsexpress and/or madisound etc. Regardless of that, the '"RANGE" of XO points has more or less decided both for 3 way as well as a 4 way design. I do gather that the final design and these XO pts will have little, if any, bearing on these XO pts. Thats part of the reason that these "ranges" of mine are quite broad and flexible. I have been told that altering XO pts is just a matter of switching values of resistors and capacitors etc for those who know . . . .(I don't)

3 way XO ranges
80 to 250 hz
2 to 4 Khz

4 way XO ranges
70 to 120 hz
250 to 1200 hz
3.5 to 7 Khz

Guys, I am aware of this
3-Way Active Crossover-DIY Kit

* Can any kind soul suggest/guide me to something more contemporary and optimal?
* I am not much good with a soldering iron but know people who can DIFOM (do-it-for-me)

Many thanks in anticipation.

Cheerio, ALL.

you seem to have made up your mind on a lot of things.

i have a few questions:

1. why not bass reflex?
2. why not a digital crossover?
3. on what basis have you decided the crossover points?
4. why not passive? why only analog active?
5. what are you driver choices?

which systems have you heard with each of the solutions you rejected, and what was the reason for the rejection (Eg - bass reflex, minidsp etc)
the typical process is to decide on driver -> alignment -> crossover (or) alignment -> driver -> crossover

by alignment i include not just enclosure type and enclosure size but also baffle design (CTC values).

finally - what is your budget.


best wishes.

 

[trittya]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

@ Kapvin
Thanks a lot for the kind reponse.

you seem to have made up your mind on a lot of things.

Yeah, on most of it anyway. Anything wrong with that?

why not bass reflex?

I don't like port-noise due to turbulence as also the boomy, bloated, one note bass they tend to produce. That slug of air phenomenon just doesn't appeal to my ears. There are a lot compromises in speaker design. This is something I am not willing to resort to.:indifferent14:

why not a digital crossover?

I am NOT rejecting digital. I have merely selected analog.

on what basis have you decided the crossover points?

I have NOT chosen the XO points, my friend. I have only chosen a broad range in the limits of which each point will be FINALLY chosen.

why not passive? why only analog active?

I am sick, tired, bored and fatigued listening to 2 way/3 way #@*%$! PASSIVE speaker systems.

hyeah:
Other than that, I feel active bi-amping, tri-amping and quad-amping vastly enhances the listening experience. Makes more sense to me, in brief.

what are you driver choices?

My shortlist is quite long and vast to mention since I have not compiled it yet, save in my head. I will definitely not go in for dearer brands like Seas, Scanspeak, Morel and Fostex etc and nor shall I go in for the entry level brands (which, for obvious reasons I choose not to name). I shall go for Peerless, Vifa, Dayton or equivalent. That price league ie . . .

which systems have you heard with each of the solutions you rejected

Enough to know what I want (within my means, of course).

and what was the reason for the rejection (Eg - bass reflex, minidsp etc)

Bass reflex covered. Why analog again - Analog watch, analog speedometer, analog tachometer, analog altimeters in most sophisticated fighter planes, analog sound(waves), analog brain, analog sensory perception, therefore analog XO. :lol: Jokes aside, asking/answering any more of this amounts to asking/answering why one wants to buy a DAC for listening to music that he/she doesn't have on analog media. I just want to keep it all analog-to-the-max, shall we say? Will try digital stuff later, and that, I am aware is inevitable, sooner or later. But thats easy, switching from analog to digital. One can do so anytime when one wants/needs to. Just that this time ain't one of those . . .

the typical process is to decide on driver -> alignment -> crossover (or) alignment -> driver -> crossover

by alignment i include not just enclosure type and enclosure size but also baffle design (CTC values).

My apologies for being unable to flow-chart the process like you have done above. Nevertheless, most of the aspects that you mentioned have been deliberated upon. Just that its too confusing and long-drawn to share at this juncture. Am waiting for it to crystallize a mite. The fact is that I have not finalised the enclosure topology for separate sections.
That, however, shall make no/little difference to the XO 'ranges' chosen for 3/4 way design. I do remember having said so, if you peruse my initial thread.

finally - what is your budget.

For the XO or the entire system? Its kind of flexible upto 75K, as of now.


Thanks for helping me with your queries. I do realise that I have to help you in helping me. Therefore, I have decided to answer the best I could/should. I do hope it satisfies you.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Warm regards

 

[kapvin]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

@ Kapvin
Thanks a lot for the kind reponse.


Yeah, on most of it anyway. Anything wrong with that?


I don't like port-noise due to turbulence as also the boomy, bloated, one note bass they tend to produce. That slug of air phenomenon just doesn't appeal to my ears. There are a lot compromises in speaker design. This is something I am not willing to resort to.:indifferent14:




I am NOT rejecting digital. I have merely selected analog..


I have NOT chosen the XO points, my friend. I have only chosen a broad range in the limits of which each point will be FINALLY chosen.


hyeah:
Other than that, I feel active bi-amping, tri-amping and quad-amping vastly enhances the listening experience. Makes more sense to me, in brief.


My shortlist is quite long and vast to mention since I have not compiled it yet, save in my head. I will definitely not go in for dearer brands like Seas, Scanspeak, Morel and Fostex etc and nor shall I go in for the entry level brands (which, for obvious reasons I choose not to name). I shall go for Peerless, Vifa, Dayton or equivalent. That price league ie . . .


Enough to know what I want (within my means, of course).


Bass reflex covered. Why analog again - Analog watch, analog speedometer, analog tachometer, analog altimeters in most sophisticated fighter planes, analog sound(waves), analog brain, analog sensory perception, therefore analog XO. :lol: Jokes aside, asking/answering any more of this amounts to asking/answering why one wants to buy a DAC for listening to music that he/she doesn't have on analog media. I just want to keep it all analog-to-the-max, shall we say? Will try digital stuff later, and that, I am aware is inevitable, sooner or later. But thats easy, switching from analog to digital. One can do so anytime when one wants/needs to. Just that this time ain't one of those . . .


My apologies for being unable to flow-chart the process like you have done above. Nevertheless, most of the aspects that you mentioned have been deliberated upon. Just that its too confusing and long-drawn to share at this juncture. Am waiting for it to crystallize a mite. The fact is that I have not finalised the enclosure topology for separate sections.
That, however, shall make no/little difference to the XO 'ranges' chosen for 3/4 way design. I do remember having said so, if you peruse my initial thread.

For the XO or the entire system? Its kind of flexible upto 75K, as of now.


Thanks for helping me with your queries. I do realise that I have to help you in helping me. Therefore, I have decided to answer the best I could/should. I do hope it satisfies you.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Warm regards

any alignment which is not done well will sound bad. A poorly designed transmission line will also ring. As will an under damped sealed.

I will make one more attempt to explain what I was saying.

You will typically choose drivers which work best in the alignment you have chosen. A speaker that works well in a tl may not give you happiness in a sealed enclosure. The crossover design starts with once the speakers are mounted in the enclosure (this can be modelled, but you need to know the exact driver combination and baffle design to model). The reason for this is that the phase angle changes with frequency, response changes based on baffle design (Bsc) , driver anamolies (incl cone breakups) and impedance plays a role (for passive). The driver interaction with each other needs to be compensated for in the crossover. For eg.. I was talking to fm hari iyer and he is using 11 components to make a first order 2 way crossover (in theory it should be done with just 2).

Therefore you need to actually custom build a crossover for a given speaker design, whether active or passive.

Sure you get off the shelf active crossovers, just like you get off the shelf passive crossovers, but they are not optimised. Which brings be to my final point - a well designed passive crossover for a given speaker system will almost sound better than an off the shelf crossover.

Since you have heard minidsp enough,I would suggest you go to the install you heard and change, to off the shelf settings instead of the custom settings that wound be there. The sound will be so much worse.

And while it is off topic now, the best chance you have of making "unfriendly/incompatible " drivers work with each other is using a digital crossover

 

[kapvin]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

analog. adjustable. cheap. should come in under 10-11k landed in India.

if this floats your boat.. then have fun..

 

[trittya]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Behringer CX3400 Superx Pro High Precision Stereo: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments

analog. adjustable. cheap. should come in under 10-11k landed in India.

if this floats your boat.. then have fun..

Hiya Kapil, thanks for the pointer dude. Really appreciate it. I guess I'll fall back to something like this in case the pseudo-DIY/custom-built analog XO thing doesn't work out.
Meanwhile, I do hope that it does work out or else I stand to lose a significant wager. :sad:

Regards

 

[trittya]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

:sos:
:sos:
:sos:

 

[greenhorn]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Before you plonk your money down or start building a hardware crossover, get your drivers, amps, and play around with your crossover frequencies so that they are just right.

If you dont mind using a PC as a source, (and you're gonna love this)
foo_dsp_xover
and a good surround soundcard will be all you need as a source. Since this filtering is done the source, the effect on the sound should be less.

 

[tcpip]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Trittya,

Is a little more rigour required in your opinions, maybe, if you want others to participate? Your remarks about rejecting bass reflex, rejecting digital xo, all seem ... well, hard to discuss, because you give no arguments to support your beliefs. And remarks like "I did not reject digital, I just selected analog" and "I have only chosen the range of crossover points..." seem... for want of a better word, merely facetious. Why did you select digital? Why did you select that particular range of xo points? Puts the rest of us in a hard place, doesn't it? And then if we don't respond, you clamour about 12 hours and 84 views!

I find your opinions about some of these approaches hard to defend, given my limited knowledge. A lot of Stereophile Class A speakers which retail for $40,000 a pair or more use bass reflex, for instance. They may not be the world's best speakers, but it's hard to believe that you and I can hear port noise and boomy one-note bass from, say, the JMLab Utopia Grand. You start the thread saying you are new to this area, but you then list a whole slew of strong viewpoints, and when Kapvin asks you reasons behind them, you don't really give any -- you seem to have just skirted his questions.

In that case, the only thing I can do is say "Go for it!" or some such politically correct, encouraging remark. There are many other similar statements, like "Whatever floats your boat!" or To each his own!" or ... you get the drift ...

I believe you liked Kapvin's suggestion of the Behringer analog xo model 3400. That's a nice box, but then all the remarks I had made to mpbraj here come to mind ... I feel you need to measure driver impedance and SPL first, and then build xo by software modeling. And if you do so, the Behringer 3400 won't work.

Check out my page on an active crossover for the Asawari. Tell us how you will go about doing that kind of a crossover using the Behringer 3400. What you will get using the Behringer 3400 is what I have described in "Attempt 1: Stock LR4" on that page. See why I got nowhere with that. You will get only stock LR crossovers with the Behringer box. Of course, another way to look at it to say "If it sounds good to you, go for it!"

Alternately, maybe you can discuss your choices with the rest of us and actually re-examine them? Just maybe? :sad:

 

[trittya]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Thanks, Tarunda and Kapvin et al for chipping in. That, sure is a lot of food for thought there. Let me chew on it all and get back to you guys here. Other worldly pursuits including shifting northwards seems to have stalled my hi-fi train. Many thanks, again, Gents.

 

[kanwar]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

@Trittya Tunn,

Paaji, lets roll in and have some discussion over actives.

Deg-Teg-Fateh

 

[captrajesh]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Hmm Trittya seems to have gone incognito.

 

[trittya]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Dosto
Lo main aa gya.
Here I am, my friends.
Lets roll again, shall we?

 

[captrajesh]

Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.

Alright soldier; now get up and get going.

 

[trittya]

Since I am with Gurkhas in the neighbourhood - I say -
"Hunchcha Huzur!" hyeah:
(It will be done, Sir)

Its a day short of one year since I'd commenced this thread. Do I have to submit a 'delay report' "through proper channel", Boss.
Waise abhi case "time-barred" hone mein 07 ghante baki hain. :lol:
(There are still about 7 hrs to go before the case gets "time-barred")

On a more serious note, a whole lot of water seems to have flown under the bridge. I have been constrained to view the forest for the trees, in that, I've had two major deficiencies during the intervening period - time and money. :annoyed: :indifferent14:

I still maintain my stand about the design objectives posted initially, although the intended crossover bands and drivers to be chosen have undergone a minor shift. Alas, I do not have those kind of monies to spend all at one go. Therefore, I need to go in for a bit-by-bit build. It may take time but at least one would've got the ball rolling.

But first things first, like FMs Goldy Rathore and the Captain, I have invested in certain drivers(nowhere as near as them, though) that are long overdue for another DIFOM(do-it-for-me) project by our man, Kanwar.

I happened to see this thread commenced by FM Staxxx and was reminded that my 100 drivers are crying out to be put together in a line array.
http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/52724-line-array-speakers.html
Well, I am going in for that build first, to be followed by a pair of subwoofers to with the LAs, which makes it an active 2 way system. I guess we still wont be far from the thread title if amended/edited (Moderators, please consider) to read as under :-
FOR
Re: SOS! HELP needed to DIY a 3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG XO for an "active" SYSTEM.
READ
Discussion on a DIFOM(do-it-for-me) 2/3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG SYSTEM.

Consequently, we could keep this thread alive to come up with 3/ 4 way system, which, guys, have no doubts, shall be built entirely by Kanwar and his team. Meanwhile, I shall either commence a new thread for my LA build or alternatively, just post in FM Staxxxs thread during , at least during the discussion and/or planning stage.

Nevertheless, to take this thread further, as it was . . . .
I too have been bitten and smitten by the coaxial driver {aka dual concentric drivers} bug, having heard two pairs inaround the Capital recently
(and having carried FM Manav Malvais Altec 604-8G pair by car to Punjab, where they were built into the beauties that they are - by Kanwar et al).
I havent heard the pair since then but I have been following the feedback closely, something that has only resulted in the re-affirmed belief about Kanwar that The boy has arrived!. We were together when we auditioned FM Cybervinays and Rannjeets Tannoys and were highly impressed.
To top it all, our dear Skipper aka FM CaptRajesh also landed a pair of Tannoys a little while ago. I have to follow the "Skipper", do I not?
To tell it like it is I have heard some very good systems and speakers and I give full marks to the coaxials for pinpoint imaging, near flawless coherence and wide, very wide soundstaging. Not that there werent any flaws noticed during the audition. But those were mostly, if not entirely attributable to :-

*(passive) crossover induced (pun very much intended) phase and assosciated inadequacies especially in playing consistently within the entire allotted bandwidth.

*lack of a horn/waveguide for better directivity resulted in a very stingy sweet-spot
(Manav's Altecs have a multi-cell (6) tweeter horn in the middle of the woofer cone as seen here)

*arbitrarily constructed cabinets wrt acoustic design, inspite of evidently excellent workmanship and build quality(they were built by the same person).

In my case, Id like a 8/10/12 coaxial driver to do duty in a flared cabinet with XOs at 60 to 100 hz(with stereo subs) and the second one at 1000-1600 hz(between outer woofer cone and inner compression driver), give or take a couple of 100s. Whats that between friends, eh? The 1/2 compression tweeter may be allowed to play just beyond 10 khz at max, in event of going in for a ribbon/AMT/bullet/slot tweeter for the highs.
I have done some research on (easily&locally available) drivers for subwoofers, mid-woofers, lower HF and upper HF drivers, most of them being from the "Thoroughbred Pro" stables, for very obvious reasons. Suitable brands for the coaxials are B&C, RCF, Eighteen Sound, Beyma, P Audio, Ciare, Faital Pro to name a few, in no particular order.

However, I confess that I am still in two minds whether to go in for a coaxial or for a large format ie 2 compression tweeter-cum-wooden/cast aluminium/ABS/fiberglass horn{ (18 or more across, if wooden) to play from 400-1200 hz to about 7-10 khz} surrounded by 4 x 6 Peerless/equivalent woofers to play from about 60 -100 hz to 800-1200 hz, as seen in these speakers:-

Legacy Whisper XDS

Legacy Helix

Donald North Sequence

Any pointers/ideas/suggestions/comments/opinions are welcome
(Flame suit on)

After this I shall revert to the design aspects/driver selection of the stereo subwoofer drivers and cabinets (common for the LA and mutiway system but to be XO-ed between 150-200 hz with the line array). Above the subwoofer would be added subsequent components in their respective cabinets, as separate modules that can be stacked together to look and perform like one tall unit.

More on hearing from you guys.
Cheerio

 

[GeorgeO]

Here's my 2 cents:

Far too many ideas/thoughts/wish list items/wants floating around and listed by you, you need to at the outset define your budget and drivers and then drill down to what you want.

 

[trittya]

Re: DIFOM(do-it-for-me) 2/3/4 way ACTIVE, ANALOG system discussion

Far too many ideas/thoughts/wish list items/wants floating around and listed by you

I concede, Master. :sad:
But then, that phenomenon is part of the hobby that we share, no? hyeah:
{I do earnestly hope that doesn't constitute an offence, Mr Ollapally. }
Aaw, come on, Sir, do have a heart, don't tell me you've never been through it. I assure you its not as bad as it may have seemed, you see.

you need to at the outset define your budget and drivers and then drill down to what you want.

For that, I'd very earnestly like you to stay tuned here, I am going to need your valuable advice as well. A huge :signthankspin: in anticipation.

As you may have perused, I have decided to go ahead with the LA first, for which the drivers have already been procured and delivered to the intended fabrication venue. I have not yet asked for an estimate as I haven't "finally" finalised the design, though I daresay, its almost done. More on Staxxx's LA thread shortly. I intend to discuss the finer nuances therein, rather than create a similar new thread. Maybe I'll do so when the LAs are ready.
@ALL
My budget for the LA build alongwith a 500-750 wpc @ 8 ohms Class D/AB amplifier is about a lakh INR.

These will need accompanying stereo subwoofers and the power to drive them, not to mention the active XO module. For that, I guess i ought to be on the (very) wrong side of the aforesaid amount. Just the four 15" drivers alone will cost at least 40K INR or in excess of 60K, in case I decide to go in for Beyma, B&C or say, BMS/18sound.

I have shortlisted a few drivers and shall be discussing them here soon. Importing subwoofer drivers is not an option, as things stand now. As you may surely be aware, pro subwoofers are usually mass controlled drivers(low xmax and high sensitivity) while the better ones for home are compliance controlled ones(much more Xmax, lesser sensitivity, but more ELF-grade SPL). I think I am looking for the best of both worlds here. Jokes apart, I want the system to go down as low as possible. So, I need a pro/home subwoofer with at least 10mm Xmax, non-foam surround(Eminence Lab 12/15 have foam), Fs about 30hz(25 if home), Qts 0.3 t0 0.45 and last but not least, a cast aluminium chassis. Home subwoofer drivers made in India, those that I know of ie Peerless and the like have stamped steel baskets which are not advisable for use below 50-60 hz.
I wonder if any FM could guide me towards a locally available(imported) subwoofer drivers (of which, I shall need eight if 12 and four if 15) with decent Xmax, price and performance. The Seas 12 costs about 20K INR per piece, theres no way, I can spend 1.6 lakhs for ELF. Pointers would be highly appreciated. I am looking for something like the Peerleess XLS, Shiva or NHT equivalent. In case these are not available within my budget locally, I shall go in for four 15 drivers from P-Audio, Fane , B&C or Beyma, not necessarily in that order, though.

Even at the cost of repetition, I must reiterate that the stereo subwoofers are going to be common for the LAs as well as the active analog 3/ 4 waysystem that this thread is about. The mid-woofer, lower HF and higher HF cabinets shall be vertically stacked to blend/merge with the LF cabinets. Therefore, as far as this thread goes, we are talking about the LF part of a 3/4 way active system. Ill post about the other 2/3 sections/modules after Ive delivered the mandatory 2/3 amount as advance to Kanwar as per his terms. That way, id have finalised one 2 way system, at least.

Nevertheless, suggestions and brickbats are most welcome, meanwhile.
So, where art thou, Skipper? (aka Capt Rajesh)

Mr Ollapally, how I wish your "two cents" had included some generous and valued advice on this query by yours truly. This way, it appears that you chose to read/comment upon the bit about my having a flame suit on only. :sad:
Its never too late, though . . .

However, I confess that I am still in two minds whether to go in for a coaxial or for a large format ie 2 compression tweeter-cum-wooden/cast aluminium/ABS/fiberglass horn{ (18 or more across, if wooden) to play from 400-1200 hz to about 7-10 khz} surrounded by 4 x 6 Peerless/equivalent woofers to play from about 60 -100 hz to 800-1200 hz, as seen in these speakers:-
Legacy Whisper XDS
Legacy Helix
Donald North Sequence
Any pointers/ideas/suggestions/comments/opinions are welcome
(Flame suit on)

Cheerio

 

[GeorgeO]

Trittya

My comment was more from the point of view of your giving us clarity rather than flame-you seem to have totally misunderstood my comments. If I may I can only

Since you obviously have a fair idea about your requirements pare them down to allow people to provide input. I can suggest you look at Peerless India sub drivers, they cost around 4K each, so getting a large number wont break the bank.

 

[trittya]

Trittya
My comment was more from the point of view of your giving us clarity rather than flame-you seem to have totally misunderstood my comments. If I may I can only

Since you obviously have a fair idea about your requirements pare them down to allow people to provide input.

Thats mighty sweet of you, Sir. Thanks very much for the clarification. Encouragement from senior members like you means a lot more than you can imagine. I get your drift, Mr Ollapally. I shall comply accordingly henceforth. Profound appreciation may please be accepted.

I can suggest you look at Peerless India sub drivers, they cost around 4K each, so getting a large number wont break the bank.

I presume you are referring to this one.
Peerless - 12" Sub-Woofer
Thanks for the input, but that one's got a pressed steel frame, as you can see from this pic from FM T.Anthony's sub build thread here. :sad:
http://www.hifivision.com/diy/19965-my-ported-subwoofer.html

In fact, thats the one I had made mention of in my preceding post above. I wish they had a cast frame basket as an option.
The hunt is still on, Gents. :indifferent14:

Peerless seems to have issues with opening up their gates to the Indian DIY-er lot. This is an extract from their Indian website -
Products - PeerlessAudio.com
"After two years of painstaking engineering and development, Peerless has created an exclusive line of PEERLESSPRO subwoofers etc etc _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _developed for some of the most technically advanced studio monitor brands in Europe & USA."

Notwithstanding that, their product profile only shows these three 12" drivers, which are not reportedly available with Varsha Electronics or Diyaudiocart.
SB30NP(SH)-04

Products - PeerlessAudio.com

SB30NP-06

Products - PeerlessAudio.com

D30GT-02

Products - PeerlessAudio.com

OTOH, the driver presumably suggested by FM GeorgeO and linked above earlier is not there among their products. Maddening.

Whats more, the only 15" sub on their website is this
SB40NN-04

Products - PeerlessAudio.com

Now, this would have been great, had it been available. To heighten my frustration, it appears to have a die-cast chassis from the pic above but the webpage says-

QUOTE
Chassis- Stamped Steel
Size- NA
Impedance- 4 Ohms
Cone / Dome Material- Paper
Magnet System- Neodymium
Basket Material- NA
Frequency Range- 20 ~ 300 Hertz
Sensitivity- 93.12 dB
Power Handling- NA
Voice Coil
Re 3.54 Ohms
Dia d 100 mm
WW 48 mm

Air Gap Height- 10 mm

T/S Parameters
Qms 7.42
Qes 0.3
Qts 0.29
Vas 275.24 Ltr.
MMS 221.09g
CMS 353.03 mm/N
BL 17.14 N/A
Resonance Frequency-Fs 18.01 Hertz

Description
High Power 15" Sub woofer with 4" Voice coil.
Specially designed Neodymium Motor system for higher sensitivity.
Aluminum Flux Ring for reducing 2nd order Distortion and Improving Magnetic retaintivity.

Options
Small Roll surround.
Design assistance available.

Features
Extra Long throw Edge wound Voice coil.
Glass reinforced Air dried Paper cone.
UNQUOTE
Products - PeerlessAudio.com

Besides the shoddy 'spec-sheet', which contemporary pro designer worth his salt would like to implement a subwoofer design with a 15" woofer with a Neodymium magnet in a pressed steel frame. :indifferent14: Any takers?

Can anyone help with with pointers for any locally available suitable home-audio woofers with a cast frame costing less than 10K apiece? :licklips:

Cheerio