Dynaudio focus 140 or focus 200

[ajay124]

Hi! Has anybody done a side by side audition of Dynaudio Focus 140 and 220 using the same equipment and in the same room.Which one would be better for listening to jazz and western classical in a room measuring 25/16/12 feet.Although I am fairly happy with the Audience 122 I have recently purchased I am curious about what an upgrade to Focus 140 or 220 would do.What is the difference between the 220 version 2 and the discontinued version 1? Would also appreciate inputs about cost/quality of Dynaudio Stand 1 and 4 for mounting the 140's?

 

[malvai]

For Jazz and Classical, I would stay away from the Dynes. They are simply too forward and easily excited - a bit like getting AC/DC to play jazz, if you ask me. At those price points, Spendors, Ushers and B&Ws are probably slightly more relaxed and allow deeper examination of the piece being played.

+1 to that. The spendors, Ushers & B&W's are much more 'versatile' in that sense.

 

[marsilians]

Can't ignore Harbeth and Von Schweikert in the same breath when Spendor, Usher & B&W are being spoken about. They are very nice speakers for Jazz and Classical. Each one of them is well regarded by many owners but have a very distinct sound signature. the VS especially have a very nice low end.

Note, these speakers require between 150 - 250 hours break-in to sound good.

 

[reignofchaos]

Can't ignore Harbeth and Von Schweikert in the same breath when Spendor, Usher & B&W are being spoken about. They are very nice speakers for Jazz and Classical. Each one of them is well regarded by many owners but have a very distinct sound signature. the VS especially have a very nice low end.

Note, these speakers require between 150 - 250 hours break-in to sound good.

For Classical, Quad is pretty damn good. However its not great for any other genre of music. Harbeths are supposed to be very good speakers though I've never had the chance to personally audition one.

Lower end Dyns are best avoided for classical/jazz. From the Contour onwards, it gets much more interesting.

 

[buswal]

I had a chance to listen to sitar, classical tunes in quad 909 paired with quad tower speakers at bangalore. I liked the sound very much.

regards

 

[ajay124]

Thanks,everybody for the recommendations!Are the Harbeths available in India?Models?Prices?Also more details about Usher/Spendor/Sonus Faber pricing.While the sound of my present set up of Audience 122/Nad C 375/Nad C 545 is quite nice with good remastered CD'S,I am looking for that extra bit of musicality and sweetness which would bring the violins/pianos/cellos/tenor sax/vocals alive in my room.Would replacing the Nad CDP with an entry level Rega/Naim/Cyrus/Creek make a difference?Or is it the Nad Amp or the Audience 122 which need to be replaced with something at a similar or a slightly higher price point?Anyone with any experience of having purchased CDP/Amp's from Singapore/Bangkok/Dubai for use in India?
* I auditioned Quad 22l2/99 Pre/909 Power/Marantz CDP with good recordings of jazz/rock and classical.I find my Audience 122/Nad 375/Nad 545 set up much more exciting!Even entry level Dynaudio has that something special which is missing in similarly priced Quad and B&W's.My main grouse with the present equipment is that even at moderately high volume the sound acquires a slightly shrill and harsh undertone.Already done around 200 hours but the harshness/shrillness is still there.Will it disappear with more play or is it here to stay?Presently using Draka 4 mm speaker cables and Sommers interconnects.

 

[neo]

I've heard the draka a few times & it sound's bright to me, can't comment on the sommers as i've not heard them. I think you should first try new cables & interconnects like vdh,transparent,kimber etc.
All the best.
Cheers

 

[ajay124]

Yes audio _ engr the dark tone is what I am looking for.Dark like a Rembrandt or a Velasquez painting.Yet imbued with a natural light.Many great western composers wrote works full of a rich dark melancholy-Beethoven,Brahms,Schumann.The last infinitely beautiful swan songs for a dying old world?Having a mediocre solid state amp and shrill speakers reduce their genius into mundane noise is a crime!
Sending you a link for Rembrandt's Philosopher In Meditation-
Two Studies of a Baby with a Bottle, Rembrandt van Rijn
Is there a sonic equivalent of this which would not damage my bank account beyond repair?

 

[ajay124]

Huge improvement with minor tweaks!Earlier the Dyns were 3 feet away from the back wall and 12 feet from each other.Pushing the speakers back to 1 feet away from the back wall has tamed the brightness and added depth and a pleasing resonance.Reducing distance between speakers to 8 feet has resulted in a vastly improved sound stage.Changed the interconnects from Sommers/Ampheleon to a QED(Quinex).Reduced the speaker cable length from the earlier unnecessary 18 feet each to 9 feet each.Returning one 18 feet cable to the shop got me the Qed with a little more cash thrown in.So what's left?Maybe replace the Draka speaker cable and get some decent banana plugs sometime in the future.After a tempestuous two months in which I researched and purchased my present setup and then kept on researching other more expensive equipment lead to a feeling of cognitive dissonance.I am sure all serial upgraders are familiar with that feeling.Human desire is insatiable and the next something better is only a flick of the credit card away.Peace can only be attained with immense self control.I think I am finally making peace with the Dyn/Nad combo.They are sounding warmer and sweeter the more I run them in and I can live with that!Early morning and listening to Debussy's Prelude's.I am feeling happy...

 

[ajay124]

Thanks A_E!
Incidentally excellent recordings are sounding excellent.Good recordings are sounding good.Bad recordings are sounding bad.Foolish to blame one's equipment for that!
Listening to Glenn Gould playing Bach's Preludes and Fugues....

 

[ajay124]

One final tweak to the Dyn's and YES! after app.250 hours and countless twists and turns they are finally hitting the sweet spot.REMOVED THE SPIKES(never liked the look of them in the first place) and almost all the bright and harsh tones disappeared.Been listening continuously for the last 4 hours-Mendelssohn,Mahler,Oscar Peterson,Bob Dylan,Ray Charles,Ali Akbar Khan,Bhimsen Joshi-Wonderful!
Need to spend more time with the spikeless Dyns.But I believe all Dyn owners suffering from an attack of bright/forward/harsh sound should try it out.
Final Settings(Hopefully!)
Distance from back wall-2 feet
Distance from side wall- 3 feet
Distance from each other-9 feet
Room dimensions-16/25/12-feet
Nad C375 BEE Amp/Nad C 545 CDP
Qed(Quinex) interconnects
Draka 4 mm. 9 feet each speaker cable

*Intend to audition the Dyn's with a tube amp sometimes in the future.Any suggestions?

 

[ajay124]

All the tweaks and fixes failed to bring my 400 + CD'S to life.Kept scratching my head wondering whether to blame the NAD Amp and CD player or the Dynaudio's.Well now I know!Disposed off the Nad's and bought the Cyrus 8VS2 Amp.Hooked it up with my old Yamaha DVD player and the Dynaudio's.The Cyrus amp is not only fabulously built but it also sounds magnificient!Straight out of the box the amp radiated precision,detail,power and punch.After 4-5 hours of continuous play the Dyns were finally hitting Highway 61!!!!!
Played many of my old favorites-American Prayer/Rust Never Sleeps/Two Against Nature/Cream Live/Desire/A Love Supreme/Kind of Blue/ Mahler's 5th/Schubert's 8th/Brandenburg Concertos/Mozart's Clarinet Concerto------ SHEER BLISS!
Intend to buy the Cyrus 6se Cd player,the PSX-R power supply and possibly upgrade the Draka cables for something warmer and sweeter.May part with the Audience 122's.But only if I get 80 % of my original 65 K.
Speakers I would like to upgrade to---(but only after several auditions)
Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home
Spendor SE 8
Linn Magik 140
Dynaudio Focus 220
Vienna Acoustic Bach Grand
Baby Rethm/Rethm Maarga
Amps I liked
Cyrus 8VS 2/Arcam FMJ A 18 & 28
Although I have not heard them but I believe the Musical Fidelity A5,Primare I 21 and ESPECIALLY the Naim Nait 5i would be worth an audition!
Amps I found to be average
Quad 99's/Creek Evo's/Cambridge Audio 840's
Amps I did not like
Nad/Marantz/Denon/Rotel
Lessons learnt
Technichal specifications and power handling claims are a load of bull.Make that extra effort to audition several brands before buying.50-100 QUALITY WPC at 8 Ohms is more than enough power to drive most speakers.Brands like Cyrus,Arcam and Naim would be much better value for money in the long run than the budget brands.

 

[Dr.Bass]

Talking about Western Classical, the two major criterion a speaker should fulfil in order to do justice to it are Tone and Dynamics.
Dyns are champs at these two parameters. They dont compress and they have a tone which if you like, feels like heaven.
However I would sincerely suggest you listen to an ATC as well. They do everything that the Dyn does but better them in every aspect. You would need clean sounding electronics though.

 

[ajay124]

dynaudio makes good speakers from the contour series up.i tried to cut corners and bought audience 122 because it was going cheap..a huge mistake.i remember your low opinion of nad.you were right.the nad house sound turned out to be as dull as dishwater.
@dr.bass
what speaker for classical music pared with a cyrus 8vs2 amp and rega apollo cdp.room size 400 sq feet?will cyrus 110 wpc 4 ohms be sufficient?the cyrus website recommends the beethovens because they are supposed to be warm sounding and easy to drive.
proac studio 140
linn magik 140
vienna acoustic beethoven baby grand

amp for audience 122 for listening to internet radio?room size 150 sq feet.
arcam diva a 70?
ca azur 650?
sonos zone player 120.built in dac and class d amp 55 wpc--any good?

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi Ajay,
Couple of things:

I totally disagree with anyone saying that Dynaudio starts getting good only from its Contour series and up. That way I would say Dyanudio actually starts getting interesting from its Confidence series and above..really...if you are talking in high end sense. However lets talk in a more practical sense, where we are looking at value for money. Dynaudio actually start getting very good from its Audience SE series onwards. Though I have not heard the 72SE but I have heard the 52Se many times because my cousin has it and I can tell you its a speaker to beat in under 70k. It is superior to any audience series speaker except may be the Audience 82 which if driven well with a high powered high quality power amp, it sounds really good else it can sound crap. The fact is, Dynaudio in general maintains a very good quality when it comes to building cabinet and cross-overs (based on their studio genes) and that is why it comes down to drivers after one stage. A 52Se has much better cabinet than most speakers in that price range and when paired with the Esotec drivers they sing !!!
The next up is Focus series. There they again do a lot to build better cabinets and crossovers and again feed their latest Esotec-2 drivers. They are clearly superior to Audience and pretty close to Contour sound. If you have not heard the Contour, you would be immensely satisfied with the Focus (provided you like Dynaudio sound in general).
For western classical these speakers are close to unbeatable for the price...the kind of uncompressed Dynamics they produce is not an easy thing to achieve, coupled with deep weighty tones, you would thank yourself. But this will not happen with a Cyrus...Sorry. You would need an Odyssey like amp for that. Or something like a Yamaha AS-2000 that Jaibir has got. I mean look, if you are thinking of dynaudio, please do not think of saving on Amp. If you are ready for at least a good 100k amp only then look at the Dynes. You may try to get a good pre-owned amp and save money that way but it cannot be an average amp for sure. Regarding your Audience 122....first of all it is an HT speaker from Dyanudio. Their pure stereo speakers in Audience line up were A42, 52, 52SE and 82. Rest were targeted for HT. Please read this:
Dynaudio - Authentic Fidelity

Among the speakers you have mentioned, I would choose the Vienna Acoustics. I have heard them, they are very sweet and nice.
I have not heard the particular Linn that you have mentioned. I do not care about this particular Proac model much (too boomy and colored).

If you want to retain the Audience 122 in your second system, try to get an amp like Marantz PM-17 or an Arcam P22...they would sound good.

 

[ajay124]

When I bought the Audience 122 I was actually looking for the 72 SE with the Esotec tweeter.Unfortunately I was in too much of a hurry.
Planning to shift the 122 and Cyrus to my computer setup in a 10 by 12 room.
VA Beethoven Baby Grand for the main setup.... with what amp and cdp?
Can I get Musical Fidelity A 5 integrated amp anywhere?

 

[qoolss]

Hello Ajay,

I recently bought the 220 latest version and at a time 3was contemplating to go with Contour bookshelf which had a huge sound stage. that said I didn't find much difference between the bookshelf and floorstanders. however, the floorstander of contour series were far more refined in every sense. I also listened to 140 which surprisingly sounded slightly bright to my ears and that is also with Denson amps which are supposedly warm sounding.

I firmly believe you have to a fan of their house sound which is not veiled or bright but yes warm and lush with plenty of detail. however, if you were to look for something which can does the home cinema duty also then I am afraid not the right speakers to look for as the metal ones brings lot of bells and whistles which you don't get out of these.

I fully recommend either 220 new version or contour series if you can afford extra money.

Kind regards,

Swatantra

 

[ajay124]

waiting for the vienna acoustics.in the meantime tried new settings for the dyn for the umpteenth time.on some days with certain cd's they sound so good that i wonder why i am upgrading.the cyrus amp is definitely a major improvement over the nad.i am getting quite used to the precise,detailed, lean sounding cyrus amp.i hope with further use this love affair continues.also i have for the moment given up the idea of selling the dyn or moving it to another room.many cd's especially the lively tenor sax's like sonny rollins,dexter gordon and sonny stitt sound so good that i am going to hook up the dyn's to the b terminal and earmark the cd's i enjoy on them.at the moment using a yamaha dvd player which is giving a fairly decent sound.have had it for something like 8 years and its given good service.with the future moving towards dac's and digital streamers i am not sure whether i want to invest in a new cdp.
comments on the dacmagic/musical fidelity v dac?
since i like the cyrus 8 vs 2 sound should i bi-amp with another cyrus?how do i go about it?

 

[Dr.Bass]

Hi Ajay,
Cyrus is a not the amp that I like. I would suggest you try something like Arcam if you want to use your Dynes in your second system.

For your Vienna Acoustics speaker, whats your budget for the amp and CDP..thats important to know.

 

[ajay124]

Got the Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand's.Plugged them in.Put in Beethoven's Kruetzer Sonata cd (after all the speakers are named after him) pressed play...and my audio travails over ......
Straight out of the box they sounded and looked GLORIOUS!No tweaks,no fixes,no confusion.Sweetness,musicality,tonality,precision they have it all.Perhaps a little warm sounding and a wee bit colored.But all in a good cause!
Over the next 8 hours I played every genre of music-western classical,indian classical,jazz,r&b,soul,rock,dance music and loved it all.
Violin,viola,clarinet,oboe,bassoon,flute,horn,organ,piano,harpsichord...never heard them sounding so good in any audition.With little or no touch of solid state harshness.If my Cyrus 8 VS2 70 WPC(great amp although most people advised me against it)can sound so fabulous with the Vienna's then frankly I don't need more power or a 'tube' sound!Although Viren's 2A3 SET and Harmony one was a great audition but for the moment I will stick with solid state.Currently using my humble but nice Yamaha DVD player as source with great results.But will soon be getting the Cyrus 8X CDP and the PSX-R power supply for the amp.Qed Quinex 2 interconnects and Chord Carnival Silverscreen speaker cables complete the setup.
I remember Audio_Engineer advising me on this forum and in PM's to first get the right pair of speaker's for reproducing classical music and everything else--source,amplifier,cables,interconnects,placement would fall into place.You were right boss!I have found my speakers and I see many many years of musical bliss ahead....
And most of all THANK YOU!GRATIN and BOOMARANG for a fantastic pair of speakers and the cables at a very reasonable price.Extremely happy with your product/pricing/service/patience.....
*Boomarang still has a pair of Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grand available at a decent price.I did consider them but finally opted for the bigger Beethoven's.For a medium sized room I believe the Mozart's would be as effective as the Beethoven's are in my 25/16/12 feet room.Placement 2.5 feet from back wall.3 feet each from side wall.App. 9-9.5 feet between the speakers with just a tiny little bit of toe-in.
Over and Out.