First Experience with Projectors (Vivibright, Egate, Epson)

NiteRider

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Sharing my first experience with projectors:

I have tried Vivibright GP90 (Rs.16-17,000), Egate P513 (Rs.17-18,000) and Epson EB-X31 (Rs.34-36000).

Having tried Epson, I could not go back to the cheaper brands. The colours are fantastic, like watching an LCD TV. And having seen a large size on the wall from 80in to 100in diagonal, I do not like watching movies on my 42 inch Plasma.

However, Epson X31 has other issues.

(1) First, the resolution is too low at XGA (1024x768). The problem is not just about losing details in an HD picture but you can see the big pixels on the wall/screen which takes you out of the viewing experience. This is called the "screen-door effect" (SDE).

If going for this, I recommend at least going one model higher to Epson W04 which has a higher HD resolution of WXGA (1280x800) which will fall around Rs.42-45,000. The next model is U32 which is full HD WUXGA (1920x1200) for around Rs.52-55,000. However, the throw ratio is the worst in this model which means you need to keep the projector quite far to get the same screen size.

(2) Second, all "EB" models are business class products meant for data or presentations (or home entertainment vs home theater) which means they are meant to be watched in a bright room while accepting a washed out picture as something is better than nothing. But if watching with lights out, the brightness is too high which hurts the eyes. That doesn't work well for home theater users. You can use tactics like placing an "ND filter" lens made for cameras to reduce the light coming out or you can use a grey screen. Doing this felt like doing hacking and not expected after spending so much.

The next higher model is more suited to watching movies, which is EH-TW5300 but the cost is quite high at Rs.70-74,000. It also suffers from weaker blacks (as per reviews, I haven't tested it) which means a proper setup is required. But the throw ratio is excellent and the brightness isn't too high to blind you. You should only go for this if you have the budget for it. Don't over-stretch to get it.

Some other points from my experience:

Vivibright vs Egate: The corners in the Vivibright did not have focus. Egate seemed to have better focus in the center and the corners.

EGate vs Epson: LED projectors seem to throw out less heat. Having an Epson in the room meant that you had a small heater turned on which means in the hot summers you will need to keep the AC on and you will not be able sit too close to it. However, with regard to colours, Epson is more natural while Egate will feel like watching in black & white (used a light-yellow wall, may be better on a white screen, but not tested). But Egate had better blacks than Epson, maybe due to the lower brightness. That also meant easier on the eyes than Epson which is a light canon (but still not good enough even with one tube light on as any light in the room affects the picture quality). Epson has digital keystone which means you can place the projector off-center with some loss in picture quality which I didn't notice except on text. There is no "lens shift" feature in any of the models I have named here. The "throw ratio" of all Epson models are better than EGate (distance/1.55 = screen width) which means you get a bigger screen size for the same distance.

DLP vs LCD: I did not try any DLP projector as I was worried about the rainbow effect as I do get headaches even on watching TV for too long. The black levels are considered to be better here. But the bulb replacement costs are much higher.

Placement: Make sure that your eye level is at 30% to 50% of the projected screen from the bottom. That is, when you are seated, the screen shouldn't be too high up. Otherwise it becomes too uncomfortable to watch.

Screen size: Don't go for a projector unless you can go for at least 80 inch screen size which means a 70in width. For an immersive experience, I like the ratio of 1.35 the best (most people like it from 1.25 to 1.50). For example, if sitting at 120 inches away from screen, I would like a screen width of 120/1.35 = 89 inches (x 9/16 = 50 inch height). For a screen size of 89x50, the diagonal screen size will be 102 inches (formula: Pythagoras: a^2 + b^2 = c^2 where c is the diagonal size).

If going for Epson: Use Epson's calculators on UK/AU sites to get the proper estimates of screen size vs distance before buying any model. Also, buy from the local dealer for a better price than Amazon if you do not want the return option.

Darkness: For home theater use, you need to have darkness to enjoy the picture. However, I realized that my eyes start feeling tired too quickly due to watching flashing lights in a completely or heavily darkened room. The scientific reason for this is that the pupils have to keep contracting and expanding depending on the light levels in the room and the more it has to do that, the quicker the eyes get tired. Since I have to work for hours on a computer, I did not want to risk damaging my eyes. Not only that, I did not find it comfortable to watch and could notice that I am watching something instead of being lost in the movie. So I am out of projectors at this point but I do miss the immersive experience.

Future/Proper Setup: I probably shouldn't have gone casually into projectors with less time and budget as they are meant to be taken seriously if you are an AV enthusiast. If I go for it again, I will need to spend more time on setting up bias/ambient lighting by setting up a screen and placing lights behind it and some dim lights in more places. I will also need a grey screen, darker walls and a darker ceiling so that light does not reflect back on to the picture making it wash out by its own light. I will also need to do wall/ceiling mounting of the projector/screen to get perfect centering which means making it a fixed setup and doing a lot of hard work for it. That required a dedicated room which I didn't have and a lot of time and budget which also I didn't have at this time. I will probably upgrade to a 55-65 inch OLED TV first as it is easier for my eyes with all lights on.

Hope this helps someone. If anyone has found an easier solution or did their own testing, please share your own experiences on this forum. I found this forum quite useful when I was doing my setup.
 
Very nicely explained. With your inputs, I'm thinking of dropping the idea of projectors or maybe import a cheap one like the DBPower T21 or T22 just for the feel.
 
I have tried Vivibright GP90 (Rs.16-17,000), Egate P513 (Rs.17-18,000) and Epson EB-X31 (Rs.34-36000).

Which one do you own now?

EGate vs Epson

Probably Egate K9 (WXGA) Vs Epson EB X31 (XGA) would be a fair comparison as they both are closely priced..

Placement: Make sure that your eye level is at 30% to 50% of the projected screen from the bottom. That is, when you are seated, the screen shouldn't be too high up. Otherwise it becomes too uncomfortable to watch.

Yes.. Me too have a DIY screen and placed 50% of the screen at eye height when seated.. No issues so far..

I will need to spend more time on setting up bias/ambient lighting by setting up a screen and placing lights behind it and some dim lights in more places. I will also need a grey screen, darker walls and a darker ceiling so that light does not reflect back on to the picture making it wash out by its own light. I will also need to do wall/ceiling mounting of the projector/screen to get perfect centering which means making it a fixed setup and doing a lot of hard work for it.

This one looks to be a critical factors for large screen viewing experience..

That required a dedicated room which I didn't have and a lot of time and budget which also I didn't have at this time. I will probably upgrade to a 55-65 inch OLED TV first as it is easier for my eyes with all lights on.

I have Egate P531 in my living room, with a 96inch screen.. I had Tube-CFL, which was way bright in my room.. So i changed to 8W LED bulb, to cut down ambient light in my room..It is pretty much usable now, though am looking for an upgrade with PJ in the form of higher lumens which should do my needs..
 
Which one do you own now?

None of them. Returned all. But I miss the large viewing experience and my 42-inch TV looks too small for watching movies.

I am still considering which one to go for after lowering my expectations (and go for Egate P513) OR raising my budget (and go for Epson U32 or TW5300 with a grey screen). Or I may just drop the idea for now.

Probably Egate K9 (WXGA) Vs Epson EB X31 (XGA) would be a fair comparison as they both are closely priced..

I would prefer to spend over Rs.30k only on big name brands like Epson, BenQ with a good support system and tried and tested product quality. Also, I don't want to risk my eyes with 1-chip DLP models. Very expensive 3-chip DLP are a completely different matter and probably much better than LCD projectors.

I have Egate P531 in my living room, with a 96inch screen.. I had Tube-CFL, which was way bright in my room.. So i changed to 8W LED bulb, to cut down ambient light in my room..It is pretty much usable now, though am looking for an upgrade with PJ in the form of higher lumens which should do my needs..

Let me know which one you try out as I am also looking for one. You will have to get out of LED if you want higher lumens and lower cost as it is still a developing tech. Epson's replacement bulbs are quite cheap at about Rs.7-9,000 compared to BenQ-DLP. But you will have to bear a mini-heater in the room.
 
Very nicely explained. With your inputs, I'm thinking of dropping the idea of projectors or maybe import a cheap one like the DBPower T21 or T22 just for the feel.

It is better to try it out on your own as different people have different interests and preferences.

If it's just an itch, then it will go away on doing a test as long as the product is returnable or borrowed from a friend. If it is a passion, then you will be ready to make some compromise but go for the big screen experience.
 
None of them. Returned all. But I miss the large viewing experience and my 42-inch TV looks too small for watching movies.

True.. I upgraded to 96inch screen from 46 inch and the difference is juz lovely..

I am still considering which one to go for after lowering my expectations (and go for Egate P513) OR raising my budget (and go for Epson U32 or TW5300 with a grey screen). Or I may just drop the idea for now.

If you expectation is low, you should be pretty happy with P513..

I would prefer to spend over Rs.30k only on big name brands like Epson, BenQ with a good support system and tried and tested product quality. Also, I don't want to risk my eyes with 1-chip DLP models.

You should be fine with at least HD capable PJ..

Very expensive 3-chip DLP are a completely different matter and probably much better than LCD projectors.

3 chip DLP are high end terrotory i believe..

Let me know which one you try out as I am also looking for one.

Mostly decided on Xgimi H1..

You will have to get out of LED if you want higher lumens and lower cost as it is still a developing tech.

I don't want to limit the big screen experience to movies alone.. Will be using just like a TV for every day use..I understand, i will need to compromise somewhere or the other.. So made the choice as DLP-LED..
 
I'm thinking of dropping the idea of projectors or maybe import a cheap one like the DBPower T21 or T22 just for the feel.

You have a better one in the form of E-gate P513, which you can get it with warranty.. Why import a lower resolution PJ?
 
1-chip DLP may tire the eyes as there must be some invisible flickering going on due to the rotating wheel. I have read reviews where people have said they got headaches or their eyes got tired compared to LCD projectors.

Even trying it out in a store for a few minutes won't be a good test to know if it affects you or not. It would probably take a few hours to know.

Xgimi H1 is quite expensive. Have you considered Epson TW5300? (with a grey screen due to extra brightness and weaker black levels compared to DLP) The cost would be the same with the screen.
 
1-chip DLP may tire the eyes as there must be some invisible flickering going on due to the rotating wheel. I have read reviews where people have said they got headaches or their eyes got tired compared to LCD projectors.

Even trying it out in a store for a few minutes won't be a good test to know if it affects you or not. It would probably take a few hours to know.

Xgimi H1 is quite expensive. Have you considered Epson TW5300? (with a grey screen due to extra brightness and weaker black levels compared to DLP) The cost would be the same with the screen.

Thanks for the info..Not aware abt the flicker issue..We have a FM who owns the Xgimi H1 here, will check with him if he has observed this..

@danielnaveen2003, could you confirm if you have observed this issue with Xgimi..

I didn't consider lamp PJ as i intend to use it for 6 hrs a day..

I plan to get the Xgimi from US thru my friend..
 
Re: DLP: I have no direct experience with DLP. What I had said was "invisible flickering". Which means, you can't see it with your eyes. But if you record the screen with your mobile with a lower refresh rate, then you will see it in the video. That is probably called the "rainbow effect". You can see that in some videos on YouTube.

Basically, the colour wheel rotates and sends out red, then green and then blue pictures from the same frame and that fools your eyes into thinking that it is all one picture. I don't think that is too natural for our eyes.

Your friend won't be able to tell you if there is any flicker or not. And his eyes may not be affected by DLP. You are currently using a 1-LCD projector and so you won't know if 1-chip DLP affects your eyes till you start using it for long hours.


Re: Importing: I had also thought of importing a projector directly or through friends. But then there would be no warranty and if it is not sold in India, then there would be no service centers too. What if you face a problem in the first week?

I wouldn't risk Rs.50k+ on that. Under 10k would be safer. It is better to select something that is sold here with warranty and service centers while hoping that the market will improve and more companies will enter in the future.
 
Epson India vs US Model Numbers: For any one looking for reviews on the net for the entry-level Epson models I mentioned, these are the same or very closely related India/UK/EU and their respective US model numbers that I have found:

India/UK/EU -> USA/Canada
Epson EB-U04/U32 -> Epson Home Cinema 1040
Epson EH-TW5300/5350 -> Epson Home Cinema 2040/2045

*Newer 2017 Models (not released everywhere yet)
Epson EH-TW5600 -> Home Cinema 2100
Epson EH-TW5650 -> Home Cinema 2150 (better contrast than 2100)

*Higher End Models
Epson EH-TW8300/9300 -> Home Cinema 5040UB/6040UB

Hope it helps someone considering them and looking for more info or reviews. You can search for their reviews on YouTube.com, Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, ProjectorCentral.com

I recommend considering a grey screen when going for high brightness projectors to improve the darkness of the blacks and the ability to keep some lighting on in the room.
 
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I recommend considering a grey screen when going for high brightness projectors to improve the darkness of the blacks and the ability to keep some lighting on in the room.

Shed some light on Grey screen.. An other FM also in an other thread, insisted abt grey screen, but Ambient Light Rejecting (ALR) screen..

Juz like the acoustics of the room, there seems to be more science behind ALR screen.. (Incident ray, reflection angle stuff)..
 
Shed some light on Grey screen..

Re: Grey Screen

I have not tested but currently in talks with "Bharat AV Solutions" (Mumbai based), a firm making ALR-Dark screens by doing some special coating on white screens. They gave excellent support to me and answered all my questions on phone and via WhatsApp.

Term: ALR: For those who don't know, it means "Ambient Light Rejecting" Screen.

Having ALR is better than using just a grey screen as it helps protect the image (not 100%, but better than no protection) from the light that comes from the sides of the screen if you don't want to watch in complete darkness. Not only that, it helps prevent the blacks on the screen getting washed out when the light from the screen bounces off the ceiling and hits the screen again even if you have kept all the lights out in the room. Having a grey colour in the screen also helps in doing that.

Now how much this actually works depends on the type of screen and the paint or coating done on it and so it will be different for different sellers. I haven't bought the screen from Bharat AV and so I cannot be sure if it works or not. They also do not send out samples.

I will share more pics and review if I end up buying from them. If someone else has done the same, then please do share your experience.

Here's some of the details that they sent me which I am sharing here after getting their approval:

Screen Coating: Premium Grey

Pricing: you can talk with them directly (expect about 1.5 to 2 times the price of a white screen, so not very cheap but not too expensive either)

Demo videos:

Bright room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjIr-f5ny64

Dark room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=majk1ix84iQ

Multiple Screen Comparison (black, grey, silver, white) with Egate P513
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ogM_WQTck

Brochure: (not sure if it is allowed to share this on the forum; please remove if not; I am not the seller but a potential customer sharing my info about the service)

niterider-albums-premiumgrey-picture828-pic1.jpg


niterider-albums-premiumgrey-picture829-pic2.jpg


niterider-albums-premiumgrey-picture830-pic3.jpg


niterider-albums-premiumgrey-picture831-pic4.jpg


niterider-albums-premiumgrey-picture832-close-up-grain-3.jpg
 
Re: DLP: I have no direct experience with DLP. What I had said was "invisible flickering". Which means, you can't see it with your eyes. But if you record the screen with your mobile with a lower refresh rate, then you will see it in the video. That is probably called the "rainbow effect". You can see that in some videos on YouTube.

Basically, the colour wheel rotates and sends out red, then green and then blue pictures from the same frame and that fools your eyes into thinking that it is all one picture. I don't think that is too natural for our eyes.

Your friend won't be able to tell you if there is any flicker or not. And his eyes may not be affected by DLP. You are currently using a 1-LCD projector and so you won't know if 1-chip DLP affects your eyes till you start using it for long hours.

I missed your post..So it is only noticeable on DLP PJ on prolonged use.. I just have to wait & see..

Re: Importing: I had also thought of importing a projector directly or through friends. But then there would be no warranty and if it is not sold in India, then there would be no service centers too. What if you face a problem in the first week?

I wouldn't risk Rs.50k+ on that. Under 10k would be safer. It is better to select something that is sold here with warranty and service centers while hoping that the market will improve and more companies will enter in the future.

Xgimi has authorised dealer/service center in India, even if i loose warranty, hopefully i can still get service thru dealer as paid service..

What you are saying is true..But hope for the best..
 
Thanks for the details..

Re: Grey Screen

I have not tested but currently in talks with "Bharat AV Solutions" (Mumbai based), a firm making ALR-Dark screens by doing some special coating on white screens. They gave excellent support to me and answered all my questions on phone and via WhatsApp.

Great.. Would you be aware if these screens/coating are made in India?..I ask because, the cost can be significantly lower in this scenario..

Here's some of the details that they sent me which I am sharing here after getting their approval:

Screen Coating: Premium Grey

Pricing: you can talk with them directly (expect about 1.5 to 2 times the price of a white screen, so not very cheap but not too expensive either)

Demo videos:

Bright room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjIr-f5ny64

Dark room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=majk1ix84iQ

Multiple Screen Comparison (black, grey, silver, white) with Egate P513
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ogM_WQTck

I think these screens are vinyl material, treated with black/grey coating..

I would check with them if they have Acoustic transparent screen in black..
 
Thanks for the details..

Great.. Would you be aware if these screens/coating are made in India?..I ask because, the cost can be significantly lower in this scenario..

I think these screens are vinyl material, treated with black/grey coating..

I would check with them if they have Acoustic transparent screen in black..

Yes... done in Mumbai, India and can ship them anywhere in India... they buy ready-made white screens and apply their special coating on them (I don't know the exact method as I care about the results irrespective of the method used).

You can talk with them directly via call or WhatsApp. The phone number is listed in the brochure pic that I had included and also on their YouTube videos.

If anyone wants more details about their screen, please contact them directly as I have already shared what I know. Tell them you found their details on the forum from "NiteRider" and want more info before making a purchase. They are very helpful and answered all my questions multiple times even though I haven't made a purchase yet.
 
I missed your post..So it is only noticeable on DLP PJ on prolonged use.. I just have to wait & see..



Xgimi has authorised dealer/service center in India, even if i loose warranty, hopefully i can still get service thru dealer as paid service..

What you are saying is true..But hope for the best..

I couldn't send you a PM about it either. Your inbox is full and can't receive any new messages.

You may get the effect in 1 hour or 1 week if your eyes are sensitive to it. Can't be sure. I have no direct experience with 1-chip DLP projectors and so I have no idea. But I don't think it would be easy on the eyes even if you can't actually see any visible flicker due to the rotating wheel.

About Xgimi, what's the price here instead of getting from US? Why are you not considering Epson TW5300 (2040 in US) given that the lamp lasts for many hours and lamp replacement is cheaper than lamp-based DLP projectors? You can combine that with a grey screen to get very good results. The throw ratio is also very good which means you can get a big screen from a short distance.
 
I couldn't send you a PM about it either. Your inbox is full and can't receive any new messages.

Sorry.. I have cleared my inbox now.. Try sending PM now..

You may get the effect in 1 hour or 1 week if your eyes are sensitive to it. Can't be sure. I have no direct experience with 1-chip DLP projectors and so I have no idea. But I don't think it would be easy on the eyes even if you can't actually see any visible flicker due to the rotating wheel.

I have read many reviews & watched YouTube videos on the product and haven't noticed any mention of this issue..

About Xgimi, what's the price here instead of getting from US?

Comparison of the Indian prices Vs internationl is against the forum rules.. So i will quote Indian prices here for Xgimi H1 - It is 80K with bill & warranty, from Indian dealer.. Please check amazon.com (or) gearbest to get US price..

Why are you not considering Epson TW5300 (2040 in US) given that the lamp lasts for many hours and lamp replacement is cheaper than lamp-based DLP projectors? You can combine that with a grey screen to get very good results.

Usage.. I will be using it for 6 ~ 8 hrs a day, just like i have been using Egate P531 so far.. If i do this fashion, i would exhaust the lamp hrs sooner and need to spend on lamp replacement, which is again an additional cost..

Epson TW5300 seems to have 4,000 hrs lamp hrs, while Xgimi H1 (LED PJ) is a claimed 30,000 hrs..So, can use it without the worry of replacing lamp..
 
I have read many reviews & watched YouTube videos on the product and haven't noticed any mention of this issue..

Usage.. I will be using it for 6 ~ 8 hrs a day, just like i have been using Egate P531 so far.. If i do this fashion, i would exhaust the lamp hrs sooner and need to spend on lamp replacement, which is again an additional cost..

I wasn't talking about this product specifically. I was talking about 1-chip DLP projectors vs 3-LCD projectors in general.

Search on Google for this specific term and go through the many articles and forum discussions on this topic:

"1-chip DLP eye strain"

Maybe LED lighting will be better than lamp on this DLP, but I wouldn't risk it as I can't watch 3D for too long and get eye strain and so I don't want to risk anything with my eyes. If you can bear watching 3D in theaters, then your eyes may not be sensitive to such issues.

Epson TW5300 seems to have 4,000 hrs lamp hrs, while Xgimi H1 (LED PJ) is a claimed 30,000 hrs..So, can use it without the worry of replacing lamp..

If you can separate TV watching from movie watching, then those hours would reduce considerably as you use the TV for normal TV programs.

But even if you don't, by the time the lamp goes in 2-3 years, you may be ready to upgrade your projector as many people do. And even if the lamp goes out, it would be a lower cost (about Rs.7-8,000) than lamp-DLP projectors.

My only problem with lamp based projectors is the heat that they produce. But if your seating is a bit away from it, then it wouldn't be a problem.
 
I wasn't talking about this product specifically. I was talking about 1-chip DLP projectors vs 3-LCD projectors in general.

Got it..

Search on Google for this specific term and go through the many articles and forum discussions on this topic:

"1-chip DLP eye strain"

Maybe LED lighting will be better than lamp on this DLP, but I wouldn't risk it as I can't watch 3D for too long and get eye strain and so I don't want to risk anything with my eyes. If you can bear watching 3D in theaters, then your eyes may not be sensitive to such issues.

I wouldn't be using 3D initially.. But will check out at some stage..

If you can separate TV watching from movie watching, then those hours would reduce considerably as you use the TV for normal TV programs.

But even if you don't, by the time the lamp goes in 2-3 years, you may be ready to upgrade your projector as many people do. And even if the lamp goes out, it would be a lower cost (about Rs.7-8,000) than lamp-DLP projectors.

I get it.. The intent of getting this PJ is to use as PC monitor/Movies/HD broadcasts..(To use for widescreen content as much as possible)..

My only problem with lamp based projectors is the heat that they produce. But if your seating is a bit away from it, then it wouldn't be a problem.

My seating position would be right below the PJ..
 
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