FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK?

trittya

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Greetings, All
I would like to share this article with all FMs. Its of 1995 vintage but most of it holds good today. I had great fun reading it and it gave me a whole lot of food-for-thought. Very pragmatically true. FMs are requested to take some time out and post their opinions, impressions and what-have-you? It made me laugh a lot, too . . . .
Audiophiles Need Not Apply

Regards as ever
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

good un! ha ha ha!
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Oh dear.

I think I have to leave this forum now!

(but I won't, because I enjoy it, which probably means there is no hope for me).
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Excellent find. LOL:yahoo:
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Nice article,

The luxury brands make money by fooling the Rich people ,some times the middle class people also
It is not only in Audiophile segment, but also in

1.Automobile
2.Designer clothes
3.Luxury Watches
4.Expensive shoes
5.Designer jewellery
6.Expensive ladies hand bag

But one thing is sure, those who posses such luxury Gadgets feel they are different from others /
Do they really utilise or enjoy these things to the full extent ?

Regards,
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Funny. Well written. Partially true. Many audiophile fantasies deserve to be trashed. But that does not mean that all audiophile components are a scam. Personally I feel that my appreciation of music has been enhanced by the system I have put together over the past 18 months.

For many years my favorite music was Schubert's Unfinished symphony. I used to feel that there was something tremendously beautiful about this music which could not be captured by the Sony, Onkyo, Pioneer, Sonodyne, Yamaha systems I had heard it on. I believe it was an urge to hear this symphony played back in all its glory that pushed me into becoming an audiophile.

My initial auditions of various amps, speakers and sources left me cold. I almost gave up searching for a system which could play this symphony well. The first time I heard this music sounding good and pure was at Viren Bakshi's house. I felt the Lyrita amp and speakers reproduced music beautifully. I could have lived happily with a Lyrita set up, but I was fixated on buying a powerful solid state amplifier and three way speakers. I have found them now and have stopped looking further....

Incidentally the writer of the article professes to be a music lover and not an audiophile, and yet his musical taste seems to be restricted to Led Zeppelin and similar music. Perhaps he is neither an audiophile nor a musicophile :)
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Great find. :)
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Funny. Well written. Partially true. Many audiophile fantasies deserve to be trashed. But that does not mean that all audiophile components are a scam. Personally I feel that my appreciation of music has been enhanced by the system I have put together over the past 18 months.

For many years my favorite music was Schubert's Unfinished symphony. I used to feel that there was something tremendously beautiful about this music which could not be captured by the Sony, Onkyo, Pioneer, Sonodyne, Yamaha systems I had heard it on. I believe it was an urge to hear this symphony played back in all its glory that pushed me into becoming an audiophile.

My initial auditions of various amps, speakers and sources left me cold. I almost gave up searching for a system which could play this symphony well. The first time I heard this music sounding good and pure was at Viren Bakshi's house. I felt the Lyrita amp and speakers reproduced music beautifully. I could have lived happily with a Lyrita set up, but I was fixated on buying a powerful solid state amplifier and three way speakers. I have found them now and have stopped looking further....

Incidentally the writer of the article professes to be a music lover and not an audiophile, and yet his musical taste seems to be restricted to Led Zeppelin and similar music. Perhaps he is neither an audiophile nor a musicophile :)

Dear Ajay,
Yeah, perhaps . . . But then, who cares? Its all a matter of RELATIVITY and PERCEPTION, really. This, I say in the days in which Einstein's theory of relativity seems to have gone for a toss. For 80 yrs, mankind believed that there's nothing faster than the speed of light, which has now been disproved by measuring speeds of a sub-atomic particle called the neutrino.

The author does not claim to be a 'musicophile' either but its not fair to say that just because he listens to Led Zep and the like, he isnt a musicophile. IMHO, thats bourgeois from a workers' class POV on one hand and so very conventionally middle-class from a 'superior' one. Thats relativity and perception. Now, you and/or I may 'choose' to classify 'Haryaanvi raaginis' and 'Punjabi tappey' as cacophony but there's a multitude out there that swears by it and to which, thats all the music there is.

I guess all remains well in this world till we try to see things from a counter-perspective. The trouble begins when we attempt to shove ours down an 'unreceptive' gullet.

I would not have written this in response to a post by anyone who is less 'well (and vastly) read' than you are. I am sure you will take it as a friend's two phooti kaudis in a healthy debate.

Warmest Regards
Trittya (the 3rd peg)
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

This is a nice dig at the tribe. I guess lots of it is keen observation on the part of the author. And has a ring of truth:)

Introspection and poking fun at oneself are signs of maturity and good mental health:). So let's stay mature and healthy.
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

@Trittya,

Agree it is all about Relativity and perception.

Relativity and perception varies with different folks depending on what their priorities and tastes are. Hence, if one writes an article that propounds a counter argument it will still remain valid.

But frankly I found the article funny and nice. Some of the tricks are quite far fetched though (like the sony discman trying to emulate a transport - dac) ;)
 
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Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

This, I say in the days in which Einstein's theory of relativity seems to have gone for a toss. For 80 yrs, mankind believed that there's nothing faster than the speed of light, which has now been disproved by measuring speeds of a sub-atomic particle called the neutrino.

Is there a physicist in the room? Even my high school physics knowledge tells me something is wrong with your conclusions of the CERN experiments.

First of all, only one lab has done the experiment. Wait for other labs to confirm before you start quoting it as true. Remember the Fleischmann and Pons experiments and the ensuing cold fusion controversy?

Even if Neutrinos do travel faster than light, theory of relativity doesn't go for a toss. Just like Newtonian physics did not go for a toss when we had enough proof of the theory of relativity. Everything from car design to aircraft design to space travel still depends on Neutonian physics to solve its problems of motion. Besides, there is plenty of experimental evidence to support the theory of relativity. All those experiments will not yield different results today.

I would wait for the real scientists to confirm the experiments and work out the implications. If the neutrinos traveling faster than light can indeed carry information, we might be onto something. Otherwise it will be another of those facts of interest only to the theoretical physicist.

[The article you quoted was funny. Loved it :) Thanks.]
 
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Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Trittya

Accepted in the right spirit. I agree one should not be overly judgemental. The article has been written in a light hearted manner. My response including the last bit was also meant to be light hearted. Perhaps I was unable to word it properly.
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Funny. Well written. Partially true. Many audiophile fantasies deserve to be trashed. But that does not mean that all audiophile components are a scam.
Absolutely not.

Apart from the occasional miracle product that gives great results at a low price, there can be no doubt that, at least as far as major components are concerned, we get what we pay for.

Nobody needs to be an "audiophile" to go wow at their favourite music played on amazing speakers through high-end components. They don't even need to be told the price first. Nor do they need to know, even, which end is high or low (or middle!) or any of the audiophile language.

Even that language ... yes, it can be irritating, but if we do want to talk to each other, compare notes, or recommend a product against another product, then some sort of mutually-understood words are needed.

There are two problem areas, and I guess they are related: the lunacy on the periphery, and the obsession of detail, some of which may, actually, be of no consequence whatsoever to what happens when our ears and brains listen to and hear sound. There have been some great examples, posted recently, about various kinds of "noise" and what can and cannot actually be heard (by most people. My wife can hear a pair of earbuds, on low volume, from ten feet away: it's a good thing she isn't an audiophile!)

But hey, say one of goes out with multi-lakhs to spend on hifi. Isn't some detail obsession acceptable? Even necessary? Not to mention ...enjoyable!

When we do this, though, I fear that many forget about psycho-acoustics and what happens in the brain, and what can influence it.

I have the following experience regularly. I go to a carnatic concert. The vocalist sounds as if they have been put in the background. Even though I don't have sound-desk skills, I know that the problem is not necessarily the gain setting on the singer's mike, but that the high or mid eq controls should be adjusted. Half an hour later, I can hear the artist's voice, but I know that nobody went near the mixer. My brain has adjusted.

I know very well that spending either money or time, for me, results in better sound. Or worse... ever had that, "Have I been conned, or sold a dud?" feeling? Either may, or may not, be psychological. I think long-term listening "tests" are particularly subject to this. Yes, the speakers or the cables, or whatever, might have burnt in --- but so have our brain cells. That is not to say that all such reports are wrong or imaginary. Some people can remember sound; some people can remember colour...

It is probably true that the sound that audiophiles seek is the sound where they no longer have anything to think about. By then, of course, it might have become an obsession --- but I think most of us are able to just enjoy the music.

As the article says, the best listening experience is when you're not even noticing the sound system.

At the moment, I'm worried that the air in my room might be causing jitter --- Thankfully, manoj.p might have found the answer. I just hope it's expensive enough! :D
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Nobody needs to be an "audiophile" to go wow at their favourite music played on amazing speakers through high-end components. They don't even need to be told the price first. Nor do they need to know, even, which end is high or low (or middle!) or any of the audiophile language.

I agree.

Recently when we had the Banagalore hifi meet, we went through some 4 systems in succession. Each costing different and placed at different levels in the performance ladder. It was very obvious even to a newbie the massive difference between them.

Even for a musicophile, well-engineered and purposely build high fidelity gear can make a huge difference in their appreciation of music.

But I completely agree with the fact that there are many scams. Absurdly priced gimmicks which are designed to prey on the gullible audiophile mind. I am not condoning any of them.

The trick is to separate the tricks from the facts !
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

We could probably quote endlessly from Ethan Winer here, but I just read this and it seemed particularly appropriate to this thread:
Like the Emperor's New Clothes, many people let themselves be conned into believing that a higher truth exists, even if they cannot hear it. There is no disputing that hearing can be improved with practice and that you can learn to recognize detail, but that is certainly not the same as imagining something that doesn't exist to begin with. And, logically speaking, just because a large number of people believe something does not alone make it the truth. Even more important, all the audiophile tweaks in the world are meaningless compared to such basics as installing proper acoustic treatment in the control room and using solid engineering techniques.

It is difficult to prove or disprove issues like those I have presented here because human auditory perception is so fragile and our memory is so short. With A/B testing - where you switch between one version of a signal and another to audition the difference - it is mandatory that the switch be performed very quickly. If it takes you fifteen minutes to hook up a replacement amplifier, it will be very hard to tell if there truly was a difference, compared to being able to switch between the two amps in less than a second. Even when switching quickly, it is important that both amplifiers be set to exactly the same volume level.

When all else is equal, people will generally pick the brighter (or just louder) version as sounding better, unless of course the sound already was too loud or bright. People will sometimes report a difference even in an "A/A" test, where nothing at all has changed! And just because something sounds "better," it is not necessarily higher fidelity. Goosing the treble and bass or adding a little compression often makes a track sound better, but that doesn't mean the result is more faithful to the original source material.

Psychological factors like expectation and fatigue also play an important part in one's assessment of sound, even when nothing physical has changed. If I brag to someone about how great my studio's playback system sounds and then that person comes over to hear it, my system always sounds worse to me while we're both listening. Finally, it's important to consider the source of any claim, though someone's financial interest in a product doesn't mean the claims are exaggerated or untrue either. But there's probably more than a little truth to the popular sentiment, "The most important person in a company that makes audiophile speaker wire is the head of marketing."

Dispelling Popular Audio Myths - Ethan Winer

Edit...

The article I quoted that from is written from a studio/recording/engineering point of view. He says much the same things, but from a consumer point of view in this article: Audiophoolery. Oh dear, some of our members will hate what he says about cables :eek:hyeah:. Power conditioning, too --- although I think he might have a different view of that if he lived in a country where the voltage can be 230 one minute and 170 the next.

.
 
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Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

Is there a physicist in the room?

Yes. Generally I belong to the same field of research. However, I am not an experimentalist, I am a theorist.

I generally agree with what you have written. There are many things I can say about this recent claim of neutrinos traveling faster than light. You may know that an Indian theoretical physicist by the name E.C.G Sudarshan first thought of such a particle, generally called a tachyon. Sudarshan though is more well known for his other works. Even today, with a visitor from Stanford, I have been discussing an early paper by Sudarshan and another physicist Marshak, a work which was a precursor to the Nobel prize winning work of Weinberg, Salam and Glashow.

Let me just say in one statement: There is a huge distance the scientific community has to travel before this claim is accepted. I personally believe this claim will NOT stand and I have some reasons. Scientists are human beings too, and entitled to make mistakes.

Just today Carlo Contaldi from Imperial College, London, has shown in a paper (arXiv: 1109.6160[hep-ph]) that the OPERA group (the experimental group who claimed) did not do the synchronization of the two clocks (at CERN, Geneva and GRAN SASSO, Italy) correctly in measuring the time of flight of the neutrinos. In particular, they did not properly take into account the effect of the rotation of the earth. His estimate of the uncertainty in the time interval measurement due to this effect is O(100 ns) which could easily mimic the apparent 60 ns "earlier arrival time gap" claimed by OPERA.

With time, the truth will come out.

Regards.
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

In science great discoveries have been made thinking and exploring the impossible. But in audio human senses are bound by limitations. We cant hear lets say what bats hear. There are amazing audiophile people who have trained there ears to notice the difference, but most of the average normal people cant. Those average normal people who can, fail to explain if the little difference is an improvement or degradation. Lets say someone says with so and so upgrade midrange detail improved. For a moment lets consider it as a fact. Now what is this improvement. Everybody hears differently. Each persons hearing responses is different. Even mood affects our perception of sound. What about different rooms. Will this little improvement be same in different room. And what we call improvement can be suppression of lower end of midrange so we find them more detailed. so can it be called improvement ? Can improvement and difference be segregated and explained ?
Most of subjective audio discussion and debates are never ending topics which end in either to each his own or verbal fights or its subjective or we agree to disagree. Problems is with people selling expensive products. The price one pays for claimed improved SQ should be pitted against how much improvement they are getting. Either one makes a logical, sensible informed decision in buying or if they have the monies to spare then what the hell...Opus MM2 Speaker Cable Speaker cable from Transparent Cable... these things do make difference.
Anyways words like sweet, lush, transparent, musical, warm sound actually mean nothing in audio terms but have helped many. (Including me :lol:)
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Asitda, I read somewhere that there is no accurate scientific definition of concept of time. Is It true ?????
 
Re: FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK, An awdeophile,audiophile,audiofool or just ABOUT TO ROCK

I discovered, yesterday, that moving my Audio-Techica AT-ADH900 headphones forward (while on my head, of course ;)) by less than 1/4 inch improves the sound considerably!

I don't think I imagined it. In the light of recent discussions, it is hard to be sure of anything now! :lol:

Seriously: simple things can have real results, and I don't think there is anything unlikely or unscientific about this one.
 
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