Getting the best sound of my BS22 speakers...

[Sandesh]

Hi guys,

I am currently using an ONKYO TXDS676 AVR (110 W@6 ohms/ 80W @8 ohms) to power my pioneer speakers BS22 (80 Watts @6 ohms) along with an Onkyo sub. I'm confused whether to go for a DAC or a stereo amplifier (Norge is in my budget) to improve the sound in terms of soundstage,details etc. It would be great if anyone could give me some suggestions how to improve the sound (maybe some tips etc). BS22 owners feel free to give your suggestions too. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sandesh]

Seems like I may have placed this in a wrong area. Admins can you please help as I cant delete the thread...

 

[robin3989]

What is your source?
Soundstage, focused centre image and detail can be achieved to an extent through speaker placement and doesn't require amp change. I don't own BS22, but I have heard good things about this budget friendly stand mounts. So, I'm assuming you can fine tune the existing setup before changing the amp.

There are plenty of info available on the forum related to speaker placement.

 

[MaSh]

Hi guys,

I am currently using an ONKYO TXDS676 AVR (110 W@6 ohms/ 80W @8 ohms) to power my pioneer speakers BS22 (80 Watts @6 ohms) along with an Onkyo sub. I'm confused whether to go for a DAC or a stereo amplifier (Norge is in my budget) to improve the sound in terms of soundstage,details etc. It would be great if anyone could give me some suggestions how to improve the sound (maybe some tips etc). BS22 owners feel free to give your suggestions too. Thanks in advance.

Since they are already connected to a receiver, you can try adding a power amp to the pre out of the receiver for these speakers.

These speakers are known to sing well when given good amounts of clean power.

MaSh

 

[Sandesh]

What is your source?
Soundstage, focused centre image and detail can be achieved to an extent through speaker placement and doesn't require amp change. I don't own BS22, but I have heard good things about this budget friendly stand mounts. So, I'm assuming you can fine tune the existing setup before changing the amp.

There are plenty of info available on the forum related to speaker placement.

Source is Old Philips DVD player/Iphone/Tape Deck/Vinyl player. @robin3989 I am curious whether the DAC (priced between 10-15k) will make a bigger change in the details?

 

[Sandesh]

Since they are already connected to a receiver, you can try adding a power amp to the pre out of the receiver for these speakers.

These speakers are known to sing well when given good amounts of clean power.

MaSh

@MaSh What kind of wattage will I need to feed the speaker? Is my current receiver not enough considering the below wattage
ONKYO TXDS676 AVR (110 W@6 ohms/ 80W @8 ohms) to power my pioneer speakers BS22 (80 Watts @6 ohms). I was actually toying with the idea of going for a Norge Pre-poweramp set up....

 

[Sandesh]

This is my current setup at the moment....

 

[Sandesh]

The speakers have been roughly placed about a little more 1 feet away from the back wall and around the same from the side wall/audio rack unit and the there's about a distance of 8 ft away from my recliners....

 

[Sandesh]

This is my seating arrangement....

 

[Sandesh]

Any suggestions guys? @robin3989 @MaSh

 

[Gecko]

Speaker placement has a big impact on the sound produced by the speakers. Move your speakers at least 2-3 feet from back wall as it is rear ported one. Also try playing with toeing in your speakers such that it fires sound directly towards you.

 

[robin3989]

Source is Old Philips DVD player/Iphone/Tape Deck/Vinyl player. @robin3989 I am curious whether the DAC (priced between 10-15k) will make a bigger change in the details?

In my experience, I can say iPhone isn't a good source if you take out the audio from headphone jack. An external DAC of some sort would rectify this and iPhone requires its own lightning to camera convertor cable to connect the DAC. You may also need to find ways to get through power issues. It will work, definitely sound better than iPhone's headphone jack. But, does the DAC that cost 10-15k outperform the one you have in the Philips DVD player? May be. That can be evaluated only through listening. But typically, DACs that come with good power supply and output stage are worth investing and these cost money.

The speakers have been roughly placed about a little more 1 feet away from the back wall and around the same from the side wall

1 feet is good enough to produce detail. Did you try to toe-in? Toe in a bit and see if you like the stage and imaging, but toe-in eventually will improve detail. Also you can remove the speaker grills and try.
I have been told not to maintain same distance from the side and front wall(behind speakers, as this will cause standing waves to interfere. So, try 1.5 ft from the front wall(behind speakers) and 1 ft from side walls. Hope this helps!

 

[robin3989]

This is my current setup at the moment.... View attachment 46424

Does one side of the room extend than the other? If so, you have to spend some time moving/toe-in/toe-out the speakers to reach the optimal positioning, as one of the side walls and first reflection point is too far.

Similarly the listening position where you usually sit should also be decided based on ears. To find this, you can play a track, move foot after foot away from the speakers(your rack in this case), and at one point you will visualize a clear localised image, and you can prefer that spot. Typically, if the distance between the speakers is 8 ft, you will find your sweet spot between 7 to 9ft from speakers.

Like @Gecko pointed out, pull the speakers 2-3 ft away from the front wall.

 

[MaSh]

@MaSh What kind of wattage will I need to feed the speaker? Is my current receiver not enough considering the below wattage
ONKYO TXDS676 AVR (110 W@6 ohms/ 80W @8 ohms) to power my pioneer speakers BS22 (80 Watts @6 ohms). I was actually toying with the idea of going for a Norge Pre-poweramp set up....

Hey,

As per the manual these are the specs

85 watts per channel min. RMS at 8
ohms, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz
to 20 kHz with no more than 0.08%
total harmonic distortion

I'd suggest these speakers be fed with an amp giving over 100w and able to go down on impedance to say 3-4 ohms. Try to get a Poweramp from an fm in your city and see if you notice a change. Also do try with different seating distances between you and speaker.

MaSh

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

What I see here as a problem is you are sitting away from the sweet spot of the speakers. Ideally if you draw a equilateral triangle it’s better keep the speakers at two corners of the triangle and you should be sitting in the third corner The distance behind the speakers and distance behind your sitting position, keeping it same makes it really spacious. Also the same distance should be used between you and speakers . But I understand this isn’t practical in all rooms . But this is how it’s set it in most well designed rooms. Sitting closer to back wall results in boomy bass due to the wall reflections. Your floor “ looks”reflective so it should sound reflective too! Having a carpet may calm down the reflections from floor. This can be improved further by adding acoustic panels at lest at first reflection points on side walls and on the wall behind your listening spot. That’s a slippery slop which would eventually turn your room into a dungeon.! but let’s try placement solutions first. See my stupid picture attached for a reference.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Bigger the triangle, the more spacious it gets, but that also means the size of the objects in space gets thinner and thinner, getting more space in between them and finally sound disjointed. If your speakers have bigger drivers or your amp send more power to the speakers, eventually you will be moving more air their by getting a bigger possibility of having a larger triangle. Its not exaclty simple as i say but its ok to discard the relatively less prominent issues.


The downside is then your speakers will be moving more to walls and may cause booming. Also moving speakers close to the walls behind or you moving towars the back wall kills the depth or 3 dimensionality of the soundstage.

But everything i said should be taken with a tinch of salt as with sound there are lots ot variables of which some may be prominent in your room, some not. There is no way by which someone can fix your without measuring or hearing the equipment and the room.

 

[Marakk]

What I see here as a problem is you are sitting away from the sweet spot of the speakers. Ideally if you draw a equilateral triangle it’s better keep the speakers at two corners of the triangle and you should be sitting in the third corner The distance behind the speakers and distance behind your sitting position, keeping it same makes it really spacious. Also the same distance should be used between you and speakers . But I understand this isn’t practical in all rooms . But this is how it’s set it in most well designed rooms. Sitting closer to back wall results in boomy bass due to the wall reflections. Your floor “ looks”reflective so it should sound reflective too! Having a carpet may calm down the reflections from floor. This can be improved further by adding acoustic panels at lest at first reflection points on side walls and on the wall behind your listening spot. That’s a slippery slop which would eventually turn your room into a dungeon.! but let’s try placement solutions first. See my stupid picture attached for a reference.

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR desktop/bookshelf budget speakers. I purchased them recently from Amazon for US $118 including Prime shipping. But I hear they go on sale for much less money. The build quality is incredible given the very low price: The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

For this speaker, the combined response with reflections is smoother than on-axis. No need to generally absorb reflections unless specific problems need to be solved.

 

[Passive_audio_enthusiast]

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Bookshelf Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR desktop/bookshelf budget speakers. I purchased them recently from Amazon for US $118 including Prime shipping. But I hear they go on sale for much less money. The build quality is incredible given the very low price: The...

www.audiosciencereview.com

For this speaker, the combined response with reflections is smoother than on-axis. No need to generally absorb reflections unless a specific problems need to be solved.

I think also this one doesnt need much toe in either. By the way, the crossover upgrade on theese speakers are a great improvement according to amir.

 

[Marakk]

I think also this one doesnt need much toe in either. By the way, the crossover upgrade on theese speakers are a great improvement according to amir.

Yeah! The accuracy modded model was also tested I think. It can give really expensive speakers a run for their money. I hope he measures JBL Stage A120 or A130 too. Those can be really great too at a budget. Arena 120 measures superbly.

Toe-in will make these brighter. This is why I feel measurements are vital, especially high-quality ones like by Amir. It can truly show how to make the best out of each speaker and which one to buy.

 

[robin3989]

I think also this one doesnt need much toe in either. By the way, the crossover upgrade on theese speakers are a great improvement according to amir.

If the speakers are toed-in so they both intersect on your face, that may collapse the holographic image, but will definitely improve the detail OP is looking for. This way, the high frequencies get enhanced as they are more directional, and will improve detail in my opinion. Ultimately, OP has to experiment and find what works best in his room and settle with the positioning that doesn't affect detail and soundstage.