Group Buy for single driver speaker build

[soundnovice]

This thread is for group buy for the drivers and all the necessary components to DIY build single driver speaker pair using full range drivers. FMs are requested to share their ideas, opinions and choices about the driver models, box design etc.

Overview:
No matter how much disadvantages and limitations that can be pointed out for full ranger drivers, in one most important aspect of quality audio single full range drivers manage to excel is being able to achieve perfect phase-coherent audio. The cost and complexity involved with full-range drivers and boxes is compensated by the absence of second driver(in case of 2-way) or third driver(in case of 3-way) and any crossover components. Also as majority of full range drivers have higher sensitivity, this eliminates the need to have high power amplifiers. Most of the time for domestic environment a full range driver based speaker will not need anything more than 10W to reach ear-deafening levels.

I am proposing three popular 8"/6" full range drivers from different vendors. Please vote for the best driver among them. These drivers were chosen because all of them fall in the same or comparable performance level. Also for these models, several box designs and support is available in other audio forums (such as diyAudio)


1. 8" Fostex FF225WK (111USD/unit) http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-fullrange/fostex-ff225wk-8-full-range/
2. 6" Mark Audio Alpair 10 Gen 2 (110USD/unit) http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-fullrange/markaudio-alpair-10-gold-6-full-range-gen-2/
3. 8" Wildburrow Audio Betsy-K (110USD/pair) http://www.wildburroaudio.com/speakers.php

 

[manniraj]

None of the links are showing up on madisoundstore website.

 

[ukjeyaraj]

None of the links are showing up on madisoundstore website.

Remove the closing bracket in the url provided

OP can correct the links

 

[soundnovice]

Sorry. Links are active now

 

[bijinmb]

How about considering the following drivers as well ?

1. L Cao

L.Cao full range speakers

New 8" full range speaker from L CAO - diyAudio

2. Fountek

Products_Fountek Electronics Co.,Ltd

and any idea about this one

EMS full range speakers

 

[soundnovice]

EMS full ranger can be considered but needs to check its price as its field coil driver. moreover need to get some reviews on that. fountek drivers are good. 3" are popular for their flat freq.response in midrange and tweeter. could be used as mid-tweeter but would need to add a woofer for bass augmentation. fe83en, ff85wk, fe126en models are quite popular also.

 

[soundnovice]

FF225WK was chosen because with a proper TL design, it can be made to reach down to 30Hz ( M18-F225 )
similarly Mark Audio Alpair 10 gen 2 also ( M10-A10 )
Betsy-K has got good response down to 50hz at high SPL\

All these drivers will have support from in-room modes at lower bass. This will avoid the need for bass augmentation. However FF225wk and Betsy-K may require tweeter (super tweeter!) support to cover that extra mile, although most of the time just single driver will be enough. Adding a tweeter is simpler than adding a woofer/sub as it will just require a small capacitor. no xover (inductor) needed for fullranger so clean signal to high efficiency full ranger.
one unique advantage of MA Alpair 10 is that, it has got builtin Bafflestep compensation in the natural freq.response only.

 

[soundnovice]

some opinions on Fostex FF225WK:

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2469/ff225wkstockgraph.jpg
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4130/fe206enstockgraph.jpg

compared to previous Fostex models, FF series drivers don't have rising response in the mid and upper mid range (which was the reason for 'shouty' nature of FE series drivers).Compare the freq.response graphs for FF225WK with FE206En. Hence complex transmission line boxes are not necessary in case of FF series drivers. simple bass relfex is fine to bring the most out of these drivers, more importantly covering lows down to F3=50hz. Bob of Brines Acoustics has done good box design and true measurements (non un-echoic so close to practical in-room measurements!) which can be taken as reference for people interested in in-room freq.response of these drivers.
http://brinesacoustics.com/Pages/B18-F225/Main.html

The MLTL (Mass Loaded TL) version will help to take the lower extension 10dB more reaching down to 42hz at F3.

 

[bijinmb]

Anybody have good experience working on the MLTL in our guild ?

I am really interested in doing a project based on Full Range Driver.

If there is anybody who have real hands on experience dealing FR Driver Enclosure build please shoot your experience/learning's.

It will also be helpful which is the best driver for doing this project which meets the criteria like covering majority of the freq. range.

That will be very helpful before starting the project and thanks in advance.

 

[GeorgeO]

Hi Bijin

I've built the Bob Brines MLTL using a Fostex 167E, about 3 years ago, if you want any info just ask. Do a search and you will see Bob Brines site, his plans are simple.

 

[soundnovice]

Hi Bijin

I've built the Bob Brines MLTL using a Fostex 167E, about 3 years ago, if you want any info just ask. Do a search and you will see Bob Brines site, his plans are simple.

nice to know you have built MLTL for fostex. What is your listening impression?
have you taken look at Bob's other designs for MA alpair 10 and FF225WK? what is your opinion?

 

[bijinmb]

Hi Bijin

I've built the Bob Brines MLTL using a Fostex 167E, about 3 years ago, if you want any info just ask. Do a search and you will see Bob Brines site, his plans are simple.

Yeah i have gone through his site.

The below mentioned thing really was interesting and informative.

Why Single Driver Speakers?

Single driver speakers have a unique sound. That sound comes from a lack of a conventional crossover. In a two-way speaker, the acoustic phase of each driver rotates in opposite directions around the crossover point. While the combined phase may be correct at the crossover point, away from that point, the phase will be constantly changing. Why is this important? The human ear/brain is designed to locate sounds primarily by phase. We are very sensitive to phase in the 300-3000Hz range. Outside on this range, sound location becomes increasingly difficult, but within this range, if the phasing is messed up, the sound stage lacks precision and depth. A normal two-way speaker has the crossover point in the middle of 1500-2000Hz range, which is smack in the middle of the frequency band where humans are most sensitive to phase changes. By not having a crossover and the attendant phase problems, a single driver speaker sounds much more natural.

A good single driver speaker is more articulate and detailed in the bass and midrange that a multi-way speaker. Because the driver in a singe driver speaker must work up to 10kHz and beyond, the cone is much lighter than the cone of a comparably sized driver in a multi-way speaker that is crossed out by 2kHz. Less cone mass means faster response to the electrical signal and better transient response. The lighter cones also promote higher efficiency. While my speakers don't qualify as "high-efficiency", all except the FTA-2000 are rated at 92dB/w/m or better, making them good matches to all but the smallest tube amplifiers. (Don't worry, they work great with high-powered solid-state amplifiers too.)

Why Quarter Wave Pipes?

You can't fool Mother Nature. ANY tall, thin ported speaker is a quarter-wave resonator. Ever since the beginnings of hi-fi, designers have been building floor-standing speakers with ports thinking that they were designing bass reflex speakers and then scratching their heads trying to figure out why they were getting spiky bass response. The answer is simple. The dominant resonance is not cavity (Helmholtz) resonance but quarter-wave resonance. Understanding this, it is relatively easy to get a smooth bass output without peaks or boominess.

Using the full potential of quarter-wave resonance, it is possible to get seemingly impossibly low bass with relatively small drivers. The 6" and 8" drivers I use can easily produce bass notes below 40Hz. This means that for acoustic music and electronic music based on a 4-string bass guitar, no subwoofer is necessary. Of course, for 5- or 6-string bass guitars or serious organ music, a sub will help a lot.

 

[GeorgeO]

Soundnovice:

I used these speakers with a 9 wpc 2A3 Class A amp somehow it just didnt cut it for me. It did sound better with a 100 wpc ss amp though. I had to have a sub to get decent bass.

 

[soundnovice]

Soundnovice:

I used these speakers with a 9 wpc 2A3 Class A amp somehow it just didnt cut it for me. It did sound better with a 100 wpc ss amp though. I had to have a sub to get decent bass.

i think that is expected with 6" driver having small Xmax. if i am not wrong, tube amps perform well from above upper bass and mid. on both ends they have roll-off (correct me here). where as SS amp has can easily have flat response (max. +-0.5dB on both ends).

 

[bijinmb]

Sharing few brands which are good in manufacturing FR Driver:

• Fostex
• Lowther
• Audio Nirvana
• Supravox
• Visaton
• Fertin
• EMSspeaker
• Phy HP
• AER
• Hemp Acoustics
• E J Jordan
• Bandor
• Reps
• Feastrex
• Tangband
• Mark Audio
• SONIDO

 

[soundnovice]

Sharing few brands which are good in manufacturing FR Driver:

• Fostex
• Lowther
• Audio Nirvana
• Supravox
• Visaton
• Fertin
• EMSspeaker
• Phy HP
• AER
• Hemp Acoustics
• E J Jordan
• Bandor
• Reps
• Feastrex
• Tangband
• Mark Audio
• SONIDO

thanks for the list Bijin. Lowthers and Feastrex brands are extremely costly costing in lacks! not heard of many other brands listed here. any links to their popular models and reviews would be helpful

 

[bijinmb]

http://www.phy-hp.com/
Products
Supravox drive units

Pls. ref. this link as well..

Single Driver Website

 

[soundnovice]

if possible can you narrow down to few specific models (or may be one model from each brand) which is affordable and meets the requirement.

http://www.phy-hp.com/
Products
Supravox drive units

Pls. ref. this link as well..

Single Driver Website

 

[rohitmusic]

I hope novices like me are welcome on this thread

If I may ask, can you please suggest/comment on single drivers used in horn loaded enclosure designs?
(Requirement: non boxy - live(ly) sound with good balanced response)

Have read horn loaded enclosures are better suited for live listening taste (as there is some time lag between the sound coming from driver and that coming form the horn due to the longer path it needs to travel). This "mimics" the ambient sound (reflections) of the hall of the live performance. However since there are three sources of sound (1. driver 2. horn 3. cabinet resonance - sound-stage is less coherant as compared to other designs) But this design is recommended for live performances due to above characteristics.

So any driver recommendation for horn loaded design?

Will a pencil/other designs do justice to above requirements? Please suggest matching driver Alpair 10 seems popular.

This is a nice thread so want to keep it focused. So without deviating into enclosure designs can you please suggest recommended drivers for each design.

Thanks!

 

[soundnovice]

I hope novices like me are welcome on this thread

If I may ask, can you please suggest/comment on single drivers used in horn loaded enclosure designs?
(Requirement: non boxy - live(ly) sound with good balanced response)

Have read horn loaded enclosures are better suited for live listening taste (as there is some time lag between the sound coming from driver and that coming form the horn due to the longer path it needs to travel). This "mimics" the ambient sound (reflections) of the hall of the live performance. However since there are three sources of sound (1. driver 2. horn 3. cabinet resonance - sound-stage is less coherant as compared to other designs) But this design is recommended for live performances due to above characteristics.

So any driver recommendation for horn loaded design?

Will a pencil/other designs do justice to above requirements? Please suggest matching driver Alpair 10 seems popular.

This is a nice thread so want to keep it focused. So without deviating into enclosure designs can you please suggest recommended drivers for each design.

Thanks!

welcome to the thread. we are all novices here( look at my handle! )

basically as per my knowledge any driver can be used in any kind of box. but what matters is which type of box is optimum for the driver, so as to bring out the most out of it. not necessarily horn loaded boxes are best. the freq.response curve and TSPs decide the suitability of box in my opinion. however there are few drivers which are specifically designed for horn loaded speakers only. example include lowther, audio nirvana and fostex(FE series) (there could be others too) drivers which have their freq. response characterized by an increasing slope above mids. this particular slope results in shouty sound. horn loading is the only easier way to tame them. please see the post #8 where i have given two graphs for this comparison.

i am not sure how horn loaded speakers are suitable for live sound reproduction. as far as know they are good to bring out better bass response(i.e.more efficiency at bass freq.). but nevertheless i believe TL designs are better than ported/bass reflex boxes any given day.

if your sticking to go with horn loaded designs only then i would suggest fostex drivers. FF series are latest models and are known to outperform older FE series. they can work well in TL or normal boxes too. several free and proven designs are there.

i think its a balancing act between 'driver design' vs 'box complexity'. better the driver simpler the box and vice versa. thats where alpair models win. all required features are engineered into the driver itself. +3 to +6 dB higher sensitivity below 1khz for average baffle width to compensate for baffle step loss. reduced +3dB in the mids and upper mids to tame the shouty response. and again +3dB higher sensitivity at high frequencies for better off-axis response. with all the basic issues taken care of within driver's natural response, there is hardly any complexity left for box design. i have put my alpairs into very simple 13 liter vented box and they sound great. they can produce as much as you would expect from 13 liter box. for extended response, putting them in bigger boxes like pencils makes sense.

finally i would suggest to go with bigger model that you could afford. min.8" to have better bass. although alpair 10s are exception as they support high Xmax which in a way compensates for their smaller cone.