Help me find a dedicated MM phono preamp and Improve my Basic TT system

[tripaccino]

Hello Friends,
I have a pretty basic turntable setup .

Source: Project Primary E with OM5e cartridge
Phono : using the inbuilt phono on the TT
Speakers: Edifier S1000DB

My system is essentially only for vinyl listening and frankly with the present setup, I find same music from digital sources sounding better in some cases when compared with the records.

I would like to make small upgrades to my system to help achieve some improvement.

Im thinking of 1.Swapping the stylus to OM Stylus 20 and 2. Getting myself a dedicated phono preamplifier for the phono stage.

To keep the phono stage budget in check, I'm okay with a only MM phono preamplifier also as I do not intend to go MC anytime soon.

Any help in sourcing these or suggestions for improvements of my system would be appreciated.

Regards
Vish.

 

[arj]

whats you budget Vish ? for less than 15K the Schiit Mani is quite an easy recommendation.

 

[sachu888]

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=371889

Regards
Sachin

 

[reubensm]

whats you budget Vish ? for less than 15K the Schiit Mani is quite an easy recommendation.

I too think this is the best option. Schiit (yes, pronounced as sh*t) products are really good and value for money. Alternately if you are a DIY person, or have access to a DIY person, first start with the phono stage suggested by Sachin. The best part of this one is that it can be built at a range of price points, with basic components you can buy off any electronics store counter for a couple of hundred or with high quality components for about a couple of thousands (including powersupply components in both cases). The advantage is you can save your money for a top of the line upgrade, later on and in the meanwhile, enjoy the merits of an upgrade anyways. Also once you want to upgrade from a CNC phonostage, a simple advert on hifivision is all that is required, and it will be gobbled up instantly

 

[tripaccino]

Thanks @arj and @reubensm and @sachu888 .

I forgot to mention that I live in Port Blair Andaman and access to electronic components is a challenge.
Im not too inclined to go down the rabbit hole of DIY...yet. But thanks for the suggestion of the CNC, looks interesting definitely.

My budget would be spot on as you predicted <15k.

1. Would the Schiit beat the inbuilt Phono on my Pro-ject considering the Phonobox E is the same price as the Schiit Mani?

2.How worthy is my idea to upgrade the Stylus to make my cartidge a resultant OM20? With that and a suitable Mani like phono pre, would I expect proportional improvements?

3.Noob question: Would adding a basic amplifier like the PM5005 help the SQ in anyway?

Thanks a lot guys.

 

[Bloom@83]

Even a basic phono pre amp would be way better than an inbuilt TT phono. One should always avoid TTs having inbuilt phono. In that sense , Mani would of course be a big upgrade in sound quality ( although Mani is out of stock in online retail market ).

Even if you manage to get one - not sure how you can bypass the inbuilt phono. Other experienced people can shed light. It requires some DIY.

 

[tripaccino]

manage to get one - not sure how you can bypass the inbuilt phono. Other experienced people can shed light. It requires some DIY.

The pro-ject TT has an option to defeat and bypass the inbuilt phono. So I don't think that would be an issue. The mission is to find a schiit.

 

[arj]

Thanks @arj and @reubensm and @sachu888 .

I forgot to mention that I live in Port Blair Andaman and access to electronic components is a challenge.
Im not too inclined to go down the rabbit hole of DIY...yet. But thanks for the suggestion of the CNC, looks interesting definitely.

My budget would be spot on as you predicted <15k.

1. Would the Schiit beat the inbuilt Phono on my Pro-ject considering the Phonobox E is the same price as the Schiit Mani?

2.How worthy is my idea to upgrade the Stylus to make my cartidge a resultant OM20? With that and a suitable Mani like phono pre, would I expect proportional improvements?

3.Noob question: Would adding a basic amplifier like the PM5005 help the SQ in anyway?

Thanks a lot guys.

If you can get a pre owned CNC , from the discussions on this forum , it seems to be really good.
I do have a Schiit as a backup ( used it for a 2nd arm) and found it very musical as an MM Phono. did not work very well with my MC

There was a shootout done by a singaporian on you tube below. found it interesting !

 

[reubensm]

The concept of in-built phonostage is to serve a specific purpose - that of using a turntable with virtually any type of amplifier, irrespective of whether the amplifier has a phono input or not (if the amp has a phono input matching the cartridge type, the inbuilt phonostage can be bypassed). The core objective is functionality over performance. Inbuilt phonostages are generally very basic with mass produced turntables and this is obviously to keep costs down. Make no mistake about the concept though, high end broadcast turntables like the EMTs have inbuilt phonostages that are very high-end.

On another note, there is this raging debate on which is better - analog (vinyl records) or digital. I have been listening to vinyl records for nearly 45 years now and based on my experiences with all formats, digital is more versatile. A simple file download on a simple mp3 player with proper amplification can be made to sound very nice and clean. One has the option of enhancing the sound digitally using software or using other digital means during real-time during playback. The sound is generally clean and steady. Assuming that the equipment chain remains the same, the only real variable is the quality of the digital file (and sometimes, the file format). Analog formats have a lot more variables and the more one is in control of these variables, the better the results. For example, you may have the best equipment chain for playing records, but if you are going to listen to average pressings, the results are not going to be as good as perhaps your neighbour with a set up costing much less, being able to produce better quality sound, just because he is playing a British Decca Phase-4 Stereo pressing Even something as simple as tracking can impact the sound, and then there's this major factor - the quality of pressing.

Of course, guys like me have been through a few of the most highly rated turntables of all time and based on this experience, I can tell you for sure that although having a good turntable is useful, one really does not need to have an exotic one. A decent turntable with a good cartridge mounted on a reliable tonearm, with a decent phonostage and amplification can produce very enjoyable music (though without bragging rights ). And yes, old timers like me are happy to listen to ticks and pops and groove noise with our music as we consider it part of the experience of listening to a record. It is virtually impossible to listen to a 'quiet' record unless you have that pristine pressing

 

[Bloom@83]

Growing up during the eighties, I have very fond recollections of my dad’s records of old Bengali and Hindi film music , which are still with me. Playing them on my new turntable after a gap of almost 25 years has been a most satisfying , and heavily nostalgic experience- especially with the familiar clicks and pops.

 

[Bloom@83]

If you can get a pre owned CNC , from the discussions on this forum , it seems to be really good.
I do have a Schiit as a backup ( used it for a 2nd arm) and found it very musical as an MM Phono. did not work very well with my MC

There was a shootout done by a singaporian on you tube below. found it interesting !

This guy is is love with Schiit Mani, saying they sound better than even 1000$ phonostages.

 

[tripaccino]

@reubensm
Thanks for sharing your vast experience.I have to agree I got into vinyl for the tactility and ritual of it which makes it a family hobby where we can sit down and listen to records together. However, I do continue to enjoy much of my music from digital sources as well.
I hope to be satisfied with adequate performance from my modest setup and hope the two improvements make a difference.

@reubensm Does a dedicated amplifier help the chain in anyway?

@arj thanks for the ping.
1. Is your backup schiit available for sale/loan ?

2.How's the word on the street of a Graham Slee communicator against the Schiit Mani?

 

[sachu888]

Please read the last post in CNC thread. He has done a direct comparison between CNC and Schit https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...phono-stage-no-expense-spared.371889/page-152
You will find many more shootouts of CNC with different phonos in same thread.

Regards
Sachin

 

[reubensm]

Talking about the ritual and family occasion, yes - that's the best part. One of the experiences that I remember from my early life (may have been 3 or 4 years old at the time) was so sit down and listen to records with my father. My father was a night shift engineer with Dept of Telecom (now BSNL) and mom was a school teacher. So after his night shifts and morning sleep, we used to go into our sitting room (living room) and listen to records until mom returned from school in the late afternoon. While dad used to sit by the rig making adjustments to feedback loops on his DIY phono preamp, I used to be happily perched on the sofa, record cover in hand admiring the colourful pictures and attempting to read what was written on the back of the cover (dad would at times read this out to me). On Saturday and Sunday evenings (these were the days before TV, in the 1970s) mom would also join in and actually sing along with those Skeeter Davis, Jim Reeves, Pat Boone, Englebert Humperdinck, Tom Jones and Buck Owens LPs. This close music listening relationship that i shared with my father also got me interested in his electronics hobby. Although the old man is not around anymore (deceased-2009) and my mom stays with my brother down the street, she still drops by over the odd weekends to listen to some of Dad's old records.

Now, that's what listening to records is all about. For guys like me, its not just about equipment and sound quality

 

[Mayank Shah]

I liked the Hagerman Bugle 3 phono much better than Schit Mani.

 

[arj]

This guy is is love with Schiit Mani, saying they sound better than even 1000$ phonostages.

He is playing them and you can also hear it right ? I dont believe that higher priced phonos are necessarily better..even Dacs for that matter

 

[reubensm]

+1, when it comes to audio equipment it has nothing to do with price - take me for example, i must be the only guy in the whole world who has a Garrard 301/401 turntable duo on the rack, playing music through what many would call, very low end BPL tower speakers

 

[tripaccino]

How does a Graham Slee Communicator Gram Amp 2 stand against the Mani?

 

[arj]

Unfortunately, there is no "better" but lots of good ones and both are good . Issue is reviewers and owners have their own bias and you cannot go fully by that.

The only place where I could see a comparison done well was in the above video and I found Ian above to be fair. Maybe excitable and could be biased but he does not have any vested interest.

For MM I would choose schiit mani because the designers are not just good engineers but into music as well and dedicated at value for money. Graham Slee is also a very good designer and supposed to be one of the good guys in audio so you could not go wrong with that either.

For MC, I might go for the Graham Slee.

 

[tripaccino]

Thanks @arj
I'll hunt for the Schiit.
Is your backup Mani available for sale?