Horn loaded versus conventional speakers

viren bakhshi

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"Hi all
Have a Pro Ac D28 refrence series speakers ..want to explore the Horns ..have a tube set up..what are the pros and cons of front loaded horns ..I am looking at a horn loaded mid range and tweeter with conventional woofer"
- Rupakghosh.80

This was posted as a PM to me by a new member. I think it deserves wider participation - so opening a thread.

Viren
 
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Well designed horns sound more immediate and real. Music is free flowing and very dynamic. On the flip side they might need 8-10 feet of listening distance to sound coherent.

Nice to see you back, Viren :)
 
I have always admired horns and feel at some point thats going to be my end state speaker !

Adding to what prem said, for a conventional Horn from what i could gather one can go down upto 50Hz or whereabouts with front loaded horns but will need a conventional sub woofer to take off below it to keep the size which is realistic in a room but needs the distance from the lister to make it coherent.

The Other option is a rear loaded horn, which does go up in size but I have always dreamt of something like the Tannoy RHR speaker . i believe the cabinet design is extremely critical here ( ?).

Another design option which is more complex might a corner loaded horn like the Klipschorn although it limits the room to a rectangle and the ability to place it along the longer wall corners
 
Well designed horns sound more immediate and real. Music is free flowing and very dynamic. On the flip side they might need 8-10 feet of listening distance to sound coherent.

Nice to see you back, Viren :)

Hi,


Nothing more to be said. However they may not be everyone's cup of tea. Horns need not be expensive a simple project like the econowave
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...econowave-speaker.150939/page-12#post-1856214 will sound very good. The drivers and horns(wave-guides) are available in India from most pro audio, PA system suppliers.


Regards
Rajiv
 
Hi Viren,
Nice to have you writing in!
I have not heard the D28, but I am skeptical that a small-medium sized horn speaker will better it under normal domestic use conditions. I use a smallish-medium sized horn myself and enjoy it, but there is more bandwidth to be had in conventional speakers of similar size.
 
Well, it all has to do with system building. When you start out with a 2A3 SET amp, with its meagre output of 3 watts/channel, conventional speakers of average sensitivity do not apply. Of course, the combination will play music, as many people who use the amp with bookshelf speakers will attest, but the limitations are many. To realize the full capability of the 2A3 amp, you need speakers of sensitivity 95dB or higher.

That's horn territory! Mainstream audio speaker drivers, even so-called high end ones, come with sensitivities of about 86dB. Way short of what is needed. So, we have to go to professional audio speaker drivers for our horns.

Here, the technology changes somewhat. Bass drivers have to be large, to give high sensitivity. Cones have to be light, with inherent self damping, with paper the material of choice. Bass extension and sensitivity are opposing properties - so larger drivers just give higher sensitivity. Midrange drivers are a class apart - compression drivers that work only with a horn upfront.

Horn speakers have been around since the beginnings of audio. Lots of research has been done on them. The difference now is that computer simulation programs are available to help design them, and to scale them for domestic use.

Edit:
The above was a preamble to help explain the differences between conventional and horn speakers.

- Why go for horns? When system requirements need them - using low powered amps.
- Why use low powered amps? For clarity, and purity of tone. These amps use single output devices. Check out the popularity also of Nelson Pass's amps. High powered amps use multiple output devices, creating parallel amplification paths, recombined to a whole. Timing and phase errors creep in, creating fussy sound.
- Why is high sensitivity important? To reproduce the full dynamics of music, micro and macro-dynamics, at lower distortion that other loudspeaker systems.
- Why large horn systems? To give the sense of scale recorded in large music ensembles. To create the midbass richness inherent in music.

Viren
 
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"Hi all
Have a Pro Ac D28 refrence series speakers ..want to explore the Horns ..have a tube set up..what are the pros and cons of front loaded horns ..I am looking at a horn loaded mid range and tweeter with conventional woofer"
- Rupakghosh.80

This was posted as a PM to me by a new member. I think it deserves wider participation - so opening a thread.

Viren


Thank u so much viren...for a proper dissection of the issues and giving me a in depth perspective
Regards
Rupak
 
One among the highly musical systems that I have listened to on several occasions has been the Electrovoice Patrician manufactured in Switzerland. This speaker is as wide and as tall as a door. Very heavy. Spec sheet says 1W amplifier is adequate. I used my 1.5W Single Ended amplifier to drive it. While the combination was highly musical, a 50W Jadis amplifier produced ample bass frequencies.

I have used my 5W SE amp to drive Tannoy GRF and Westminister. Again Bass reproduction was not satisfactory. The only speaker that could reproduce a satisfactory wide range was a combination of Altec multicellular horn + Altec 12 inch bass horn loaded in a "Box within a Box" (Onken) design driven by a 2A3 amp.

A compromised horn design for home design could be the Alfredo Horn designed by Alf Lepp and myself. This is discussed in the DIY Audio Forum.
Reproduction is satisfactory 70Hz-7kHz.

I had a lady Cello player in the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra, auditioning the Alfredo Horn at my factory. She said the reproduction was 'intimate'. Like Viren says this is what good Horns do and do it well.
Regards,
Mohan
 
- Why use low powered amps? For clarity, and purity of tone. These amps use single output devices. Check out the popularity also of Nelson Pass's amps. High powered amps use multiple output devices, creating parallel amplification paths, recombined to a whole. Timing and phase errors creep in, creating fussy sound.
- Why is high sensitivity important? To reproduce the full dynamics of music, micro and macro-dynamics, at lower distortion that other loudspeaker systems.

Viren
I liked this explanation of low powered amp and high sensitivity.
Though i knew that set amps require high sensitivity speakers, like Lyrita, it was an accepted notion for me. The questing "why" never occurred to me and this answer explains it beautifully. In future i also already have in mind to move to a full tube amp and that too a set one, and ofcourse with compatible high sensitivity speakers.
 
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
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