how to understand the review words ?

subabu2002

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hi all,

i read lot of reviews of speakers, need how to understand the terms from speaker reviewers,

1.scale
2.dynamic
3.transparency
4.open sound
5.sonic
6.integration
7.refinement

-suresh babu
 
I always hate reading reviews because of these words . None of them are scientific and mean anything scientifically I agree with the thread starter. What dose open mean. There to me personally just magazine dribble. To me another if i may, is Budget . Budget sounds like a nice way of saying crap . It annoys me intently.


I know this is the wrong attitude But i given up Buying the magazines Instead I read them in my local newsagent store and put them back on the shelf. Seriously i only buy them if they given a review of a piece of equipment that i have bought.

I remember a well know Magazine reviewing kef cresta 2 floorstanders review and giving them a five star rating . Months later the same magazine put these speakers down to two stars comment box the author wrote We always hated these speakers. I thought what is going on here.

Do you think that who spends the most on advertising has any effect on how the equipment rated .. i somehow think its not impartial do you.. i think its business ..
 
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I understand your grudge on magazine review and I think you are right on thinking that way but this thread is not about that. Still I believe that these words do make sense. Not every feelings can be measured. Audio is science at lab and workshop and music is art at home.

A man saying his girlfriend, you are the most beautiful girl I have ever seen. Now how did he measured that?
 
All these are subjective and highly non-standard terms and what it means to one reviewer may not mean the same to another writer. So here are the rough meanings:

1.scale: the 'size' of music played by a solo vocalist with (say) one or two unamplified accompaniments has an intimate scale. Whereas a 4-man band playing amplified music has a much larger scale. A full scale orchestra has even larger scale. Is the speaker able to correctly and realistically convey the scale? is what the reviewer is trying to say.

2.dynamic: is the difference between the softest and loudest musical passage. Is the speaker able to play loud when the music demands it, without compressing the sound? At the other extreme, is it able to resolve the quietest passages? A speaker is 'dynamic' if it can handle varying loudnesses well.

3.transparency: basically means that the component doesn't add to the music or take away from it. If a component is transparent, changes in upstream components will be apparent.

4.open sound: unrestrained, airy, relaxing

5.sonic: I don't what this means

6.integration: this probably means the sound is integrated, together, coherent

7.refinement: I think that's self explanatory:)
 
I appreciate the explanations that Jls001 has proposed above. Spot on!
Having read hundreds of reviews over the last 25 years and sometimes bought on the back of such reviews...I will say one word of caution. These are all very subjective and based on the comparative experience of each reviewer. This may not match up to your interpretation of a particular term.
No doubt reviews can be useful. To get the most of out them (in the subjective sense, rather than just for understanding functionality etc.) I suggest you read reviews of some components that you can get to hear and analyse yourself. See if you feel the same way. Once you find a reviewer whose reports echo your own feelings, you know you have found someone whose word you can trust (to a greater degree) and also one whom you understand, even if purchasing the component is just a dream.
For example, I like the reviews by Clement Perry of StereoTimes, although there are many others who disagree with his comments and his choices. But I understand where he is coming from.
 
You must remember - the more arcane, subjective and arbitrary it sounds or appears: the more it appeals to the majority of humans.
Remember the turntables, hi-fi tube amps and the cables hand made by god himself ... ?
 
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Lets say there are two amplifiers. One that conveys the music very well and emotionally connects you to the musicman-ship and another one that leaves you stone cold. Both measures pretty much the same.

If one does not use subjective terms, how will one describe these things ?
 
Buy a Chesky's Ultimate Demonstration Disc CD. You not only will understand but will also be able to identify these attributes. Some excellent music too. Good luck.

murali

Do you know if this available from an online store in India - flipkart, rythmhouse etc? Any particular shop where you can get this in Western India (Mumbai/Pune)?

Thanks,
APK
 
from the above words from reviewers, one thing happened to me often.. that is buying lot of speakers frequently to understand the words.. definetly useful but not fully understand(for me).. for example,last year i am interested in ipod docks and desktop speakers, from the reviews from various magazines and web, i bought almost all the award winning speakers..that`s only happened to me and just testing ,testing,.. still i am not coming to end with best sound because of that newly created such words..:( i think that words is key for the success of reveiws..
 
Do you know if this available from an online store in India - flipkart, rythmhouse etc? Any particular shop where you can get this in Western India (Mumbai/Pune)?

Thanks,
APK

I do not know. But sure, you can buy from amazon.
If you use SACD, Chesky has one for that too but without all those good explanations you will hear in the CD.

murali
 
from the above words from reviewers, one thing happened to me often.. that is buying lot of speakers frequently to understand the words.. definetly useful but not fully understand(for me).. for example,last year i am interested in ipod docks and desktop speakers, from the reviews from various magazines and web, i bought almost all the award winning speakers..that`s only happened to me and just testing ,testing,.. still i am not coming to end with best sound because of that newly created such words..:( i think that words is key for the success of reveiws..

Purpose of the reviews in general is to educate the audience. Although, to keep themselves alive, these reviews and most of the info is presented with an eye on the advertisement revenue. Magazines definitely need that to run it. Web review sites do not need so much ad revenue, but alas they also keep an eye on their ad revenues or site sponsorship. Moreover, what's appalling is that many reviewers do not know what to listen for or what really the quality is. When that happens, you will see all these big words thrown around, to show that they know something. Another point is - these reviews do not do A/B compare any systems, so when they are writing, they compare products based on their memory not to mention that condition might be too different. All in all - with all the reviews keep one thing in mind that they are all subjective and reviewers personal inclination, temptation, bias are all mixed in together. Take it with a big pinch of salt.

We can't replace personal audition with reviews and make decisions on that. If we follow that path, we will spend lots of money and never be satisfied. I am not saying you get best comparison in auditions, but at least you will buy what you liked listening to. If you don't like what you listened during audition, I am doubtful you will buy it.
 
Guys,

I just ordered this collection - The Ultimate Demonstration Collection :)

I heard the CD version in the Bangalore audio meet and it was really good. The CD clearly explains most of the important concepts with good examples.

And I always wanted to buy a SACD :D. So I thought this is a good start.

I ordered this CD to actually test the new speaker boxes I am going to build some time soon :yahoo:

-John.
 
Lets say there are two amplifiers. One that conveys the music very well and emotionally connects you to the musicman-ship and another one that leaves you stone cold. Both measures pretty much the same.

If one does not use subjective terms, how will one describe these things ?

Then it makes no sense to actually write a review!
One person may get ecstatic by listening to music on his mobile phone's loudspeakers. If this person writes a review in subjective fashion - it is of absolutely NO use to anyone else in this world.

Why then even have such reviews??

The reason why reviews should be done factually and objectively - is because, only the measurable facts remain unchanged. Whether the listener is you or me.

If we were to go about reading subjective reviews, then the reviewer should also write a preamble about what his usual taste is (which biases his ears and mind) and what was his state of mind while reviewing (perhaps his daughter came up with a news of an unwanted teenage pregnancy about the same time) - because such things can really change the subjective "measurements"!

Unless I have a similar bias, and perhaps a similar frame of mind, I will never experience what he wrote. Which makes the whole point of a review a futile exercise.
 
Then it makes no sense to actually write a review!
One person may get ecstatic by listening to music on his mobile phone's loudspeakers. If this person writes a review in subjective fashion - it is of absolutely NO use to anyone else in this world.

Why then even have such reviews??

The reason why reviews should be done factually and objectively - is because, only the measurable facts remain unchanged. Whether the listener is you or me.

If we were to go about reading subjective reviews, then the reviewer should also write a preamble about what his usual taste is (which biases his ears and mind) and what was his state of mind while reviewing (perhaps his daughter came up with a news of an unwanted teenage pregnancy about the same time) - because such things can really change the subjective "measurements"!

Unless I have a similar bias, and perhaps a similar frame of mind, I will never experience what he wrote. Which makes the whole point of a review a futile exercise.

@alpha1:
There are factual and objective aspects of reviews, as well as subjective aspects which cannot be quantified. And both are necessary.

The measured reviews are, unfortunately, not easily understandable to the buying public. To the person who understands such things, for example the impulse response of the device under test to a 1 kHz test tone (or a 19 kHz test tone) of -10 dBm level, it may say and mean a lot for that person. But to the rest of the world, they don't mean much because they have not understood the meaning of those impulse responses. And the reviewers don't usually bother to explain what the readings mean to the music reproduction. And even if they do, what does 1 kHz test tone serve? Why not a sweep of the full audio spectrum? Why subjectively choose 1 kHz (or was it 19 kHz)? Please note this is just an example, and not a rant against impulse response per se.

A common, or near-common understanding of the subjective aspects of reviews is possible when one assumes that the subjective terms mean essentially the same thing to most people. As in any specialised field of human endeavour, audio reviewing has its share of argot, and it is incumbent upon the reader to understand the specialised language used to describe the subjective perception of the reviewer.

And let us give it to most reviewers to maintain rigours when reviewing despite the difficulties imposed by the very subjective nature of the act.
 
Guys,

I just ordered this collection - The Ultimate Demonstration Collection :)

I heard the CD version in the Bangalore audio meet and it was really good. The CD clearly explains most of the important concepts with good examples.

And I always wanted to buy a SACD :D. So I thought this is a good start.

I ordered this CD to actually test the new speaker boxes I am going to build some time soon :yahoo:

-John.

John
If you are in Bangalore, I can give you some Chesky downloads....that is if you use a digital server that can use or convert WAV64 files.
 
Guys,

I just ordered this collection - The Ultimate Demonstration Collection :)

I heard the CD version in the Bangalore audio meet and it was really good. The CD clearly explains most of the important concepts with good examples.

And I always wanted to buy a SACD :D. So I thought this is a good start.

I ordered this CD to actually test the new speaker boxes I am going to build some time soon :yahoo:

-John.

If you are really after not only understanding, but also get a feel of how good your (or someone else's) system is able to image, focus and distinguish a real soundstage, buy a Nami Audio's "True Stereo" CD which sells for around 5 pounds in amazon uk. It gives pictorial representations of the locations of each instrument and singer for each song. The music is good also.

Just a suggestion.

murali
 
@alpha1:
There are factual and objective aspects of reviews, as well as subjective aspects which cannot be quantified. And both are necessary.

The measured reviews are, unfortunately, not easily understandable to the buying public. To the person who understands such things, for example the impulse response of the device under test to a 1 kHz test tone (or a 19 kHz test tone) of -10 dBm level, it may say and mean a lot for that person. But to the rest of the world, they don't mean much because they have not understood the meaning of those impulse responses. And the reviewers don't usually bother to explain what the readings mean to the music reproduction. And even if they do, what does 1 kHz test tone serve? Why not a sweep of the full audio spectrum? Why subjectively choose 1 kHz (or was it 19 kHz)? Please note this is just an example, and not a rant against impulse response per se.

A common, or near-common understanding of the subjective aspects of reviews is possible when one assumes that the subjective terms mean essentially the same thing to most people. As in any specialised field of human endeavour, audio reviewing has its share of argot, and it is incumbent upon the reader to understand the specialised language used to describe the subjective perception of the reviewer.

And let us give it to most reviewers to maintain rigours when reviewing despite the difficulties imposed by the very subjective nature of the act.
But my whole point has been: so does the subjective terminology used by reviewers ... and even if the rest of the world actually does understand the meaning of the terminology - the actual "effect" being described still remains relative and personal and non quite a standard.

I am sure people on this forum itself will dispute over what they find as warm and bright (say speaker A) unless they compare it with another (speaker B).
I agree to some extent this qualitative "measurement" can still be understood and perhaps standardized.

However, when a review is more about the emotions it evokes in the reviewer - it is of absolute no use to the rest of the world. Perhaps it could be a good blog entry, but not a review.
 
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