importance of room caliberration in avr

manu george

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please give your opinions and experiences regarding room correction options in your avr.
I found room correction and auto eq really turns the music and movie into a higher level than the direct mode.

Members please give your experiences, advises and comparisons between
ypao,audessey,anthem room correction,mcacc etc

waiting for all your valuable posts.
 
For nearly a fortnight I was struggling with the controls adjusting volume, distance, configurations to get the HT effect. There are so many combinations! Even moved the heavy speakers, adjusted furniture ( Its not a dedicated Ht room). The room is having three doors, 3 almirahs, one large window, chair, table.......!So tonight I decided to hand it over to Ypao. And Lo! It was over in 10 minutes! I only had to reduce the sub volume a bit as per the error message. Now I'm enjoying the real 5.1 sound.Y-pao :clapping:
 
Of the room correction systems you listed, I don't much care for YPAO and MCACC because they don't do a very good job of correcting low frequencies (where room correction is most needed).

ARC (Anthem Room Correction) and the latest version of Audyssey (MultEQxt32) both do a good job of equalizing away the room's unwanted contributions. Of the two, I prefer Audyssey XT32 (lesser versions are not so good).

They all do a good job of calibration (setting levels & distances). What separates them is the equalization part (minimizing peaks & dips in the frequency response). The least expensive way to get XT32 is in the Onkyo TX-NR818 receiver.
 
audessey xt32 is really outstanding.but we have to wait for the next year for this technology to come in the mid end budget.
 
Onkyo 818 does go on sale in the range of $600~700 quite often at amazon. That's the lowest priced XT32 receiver I have seen so far.
 
I had never tried ypao. I thought it must be for people who are too lazy to do all those configurations themselves. I have had my system for nearly 2 months now and so far i was missing something in the music. HT was good - i didn't have much to complain except that the bass seemed overpowering even at modest volumes. But music i felt it was muddy, i couldn't distinguish some notes in the mid and lower ranges - something was messed up, i had tried different options but the result was more or less the same.
Tonight after reading these posts, i tried ypao. The result is stunning to say the least. The quality has improved leaps and bounds. The music is so clear now. The bass which was overpowering earlier is suddenly tight. It is magic!!!
Of course ypao isn't accurate in the lower ranges. For example it screwed up the distance of my subwoofer - i reset that one manually. One more change i did was that i changed the front speakers from large to small manually.
HT is also great now except that the low freq is not that powerful - i increased the gain in the subwoofer and now i'm ok with that too.
Please give the auto-calibration a try at least.
 
Now a days auto calibration systems are available with good accuracy.So its easy now.
Still for manual mode,1st set the speaker distance correctly as timing is very important.If I set distance wrongly,I don't get perfect surround experience.
Next set speakers small other than using towers.In small rooms,keeping speakers large may not give proper separation as front & center soundstage may merge in wrong way,so effect can get lost.
After that test tone & level correction.Also speaker impedance matching.
I turn off unnecessary effects like DSP,DRC unless really needs.
Equalizers can be used to correct frequency response.

So thats may way.
 
Now a days auto calibration systems are available with good accuracy.So its easy now.
Still for manual mode,1st set the speaker distance correctly as timing is very important.If I set distance wrongly,I don't get perfect surround experience.
Next set speakers small other than using towers.In small rooms,keeping speakers large may not give proper separation as front & center soundstage may merge in wrong way,so effect can get lost.
After that test tone & level correction.Also speaker impedance matching.
I turn off unnecessary effects like DSP,DRC unless really needs.
Equalizers can be used to correct frequency response.

So thats may way.

Distance means what? distance between surrounds or the height of the speaker from your floor? I care damn about DSP but felt that DRC is required to balance and even out the some sounds which gets too big like sudden background music or gunshots or blast scenes.

Also I felt that suddenly I am hearing the sound of bassy punch from my left front while listening to music...did not feel this difference while watching movies...can anyone guide me how do I correct that?

My level settings are as follows:
Front L & R +0.5db
Centre +2.5db
Surrounds +6.0db since they are almost at ceiling height

I am currently using bookshelf speakers of old Sony HTIB. YPAO set up has tweaked them as large. Do I reset them to small?
 
Distance means speakers distance from listening position.
DSP like "sci-fi" make movies sound spacious,but I feel vocals in center don't sound detailed or better.
DRC suppresses certain frequency bands & you cannot listen some effects better.If you turn on DRC ,watch movies(action scene) & suddenly turn on pure direct,you can hear the difference.
A useful thread to configure AVR better with SPL meter-
Calibrating Your Audio With an SPL Meter - Blu-ray Forum
 
From my high-end audio experience all electronic room correction are just gimmicks. If you buy a robust well made AVR (marantz, NAD, arcam, rotel, anthem, etc) and get speakers that are balanced in sound production (there are many brands, the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers are amazing for the price), and use decent cables you don't need electronic room correction. All you need are some curtains or soft wall hangings to cut down on room reflections.

All electronic EQ systems boost or lower frequency ranges and make instruments and voices sound un-natural. On not well built AVRs or not good speakers you may perceive an improvement but it is at the cost of fidelity to the original sound of the instruments/voice.

Best bet is to buy good equipment so you dont need eq correction and you can hear what was originally recorded and not some bloated tone altered version. This is the purists pursuit.

I run a Marantz sr6006 with a velodyne satellite speakers and a B&W subwoofer. Good quailty silver coated wire. After setting speaker distances and attenuation levels for the speakers on the AVR all room EQ is turned off.
 
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proper acoustic treatment will torn our pocket.
from my experience room corrections like arc,dolby volume and audessey xt 32 gives significant improvement in audio quality.

I am using genelec speakers in my studio.room is properly treated.but still I do like consumer audio because its a little more encouraging.
but this is purely my like, because I am spending around 8 to 10 hours in my mixing stage and I need a change.
 
Best bet is to buy good equipment so you dont need eq correction and you can hear what was originally recorded and not some bloated tone altered version. This is the purists pursuit.
That's not purist; in fact, it's quite the opposite. A real purist wants to hear more of the source material and less of the room.

EVERY room is an equalizer, easily demonstrated by measuring frequency response from the listening position.

People who claim they're "purists" tolerate the peaks & dips that the room is adding to the sound, even though those distortions weren't in the source material.

Real purists undo those peaks & dips, using treatments and room correction/EQ, to restore the sound so that it is closer to the original signal.
 
You may want to try out DSPeaker. It retails in india for around 75k, and has its own dac also. I was recently forced to have a demo, and was amazed and The difference it made. The reference was through a placeholder optical cable which was the only cable the DSPeaker would accept, but which completely destroyed the sound, but with the DSPeaker on, the shortcomings of the cable were countered substantially. I could not test it with my regular setup as this contraption did not have a USB in, and my PC can only output USB. Nevertheless a serious piece of Equipments for those who struggle with room characteristics.
 
That's not purist; in fact, it's quite the opposite. A real purist wants to hear more of the source material and less of the room.

EVERY room is an equalizer, easily demonstrated by measuring frequency response from the listening position.

People who claim they're "purists" tolerate the peaks & dips that the room is adding to the sound, even though those distortions weren't in the source material.

Real purists undo those peaks & dips, using treatments and room correction/EQ, to restore the sound so that it is closer to the original signal.

Nope, with all due respect I am not sure which side you are arguing for.

My claim is that electronic EQ during recording or playback damages the sound of the original instrument and is only needed if you have deficient recording or playback equipment.

If a violinist plays in a room does s/he have to EQ his violin?

Nope, you treat the room so it doesnt obscure the violins sound.

If you do a purist recording you, again, treat the room so you are recording the violin. If you EQ electronically you have lost the essence of the violin and recorded a tone altered bloated facsimile of the violin.

If your playback equipment is good quality (high-end, and not mass market crap) it plays the recording faithfully and does not have peaks and deficiencies (like mass market crap playback equip).

So, again, you treat your room so your high-end equipment, which is faithfully reproducing what hopefully is a faithful recording, so you can hear the original violin.

The need for EQ means you have lost the original signal and is a facade for crappy equipment which is unable reproduce the original signal/recording faithfully.

There is no electronic EQ, either during recording or playback, that doesn't fundamentally bastardize what is being recorded or played. So there is no purist in electronic EQ.

High-end equipment doesn't come with tone controls for this very reason. If you are faithfully reproducing a faithful recording there is no need for electronic EQ.

You only need room treatments. And, regretably, you need to be able to afford decent high-end equipment.
 
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If a violinist plays in a room does s/he have to EQ his violin?

Nope, you treat the room so it doesnt obscure the violins sound.
We're not talking about recording a performance in a professional studio but instead playing back a recording in a residential listening room. The room is going to add peaks & dips to the frequency response that were not in the recording. If you truly believe that treatments alone can fix those frequency response problems, then you've never measured and tuned a room.
 
We're not talking about recording a performance in a professional studio but instead playing back a recording in a residential listening room. The room is going to add peaks & dips to the frequency response that were not in the recording. If you truly believe that treatments alone can fix those frequency response problems, then you've never measured and tuned a room.

You missed my point....

Let me summarize:

You don't tune a live violin for a room, you tune the room for the violin.

Likewise, if you have good equipment which is faithfully reproducing the recording of the violin you, again, don't tune the equipment, you tune the room.

If your equipment needs adjustment than it is not faithfully reproducing the violin. All bets are off because you are in mid-fi land and hearing a facsimile of the violin.
 
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Said exactly like a salesman!:clapping: No offense.

None taken!

Sadly, if people in general were more knowledgeable about sound reproduction and paid more attention to what they are actually hearing (we are too visually based) they would demand better and high-end audio would be affordable. There is nothing special about high-end equipment except that it is made more robustly. The high price is due to small quantities made.

If millions of high-end units were made than costs would come down.

But, again sadly, folks are brainwashed into thinking watts and thd are all that matter, electorics all sound the same so its only the specs you need to look at, etc.
 
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If your equipment needs adjustment than it is not faithfully reproducing the violin. All bets are off because you are in mid-fi land and hearing a facsimile of the violin.
You're starting from a fantasy premise that doesn't exist in real life. There is no violin in the consumer's listening room, there is only an electrical signal being reproduced. Once that signal is converted to sound waves by a loudspeaker, the room's reflections will equalize the sound (create peaks, dips and other distortions that were not in the recording).

There is no electronic component, no matter how high-end, that can undo what the room is adding, because the problems are occuring AFTER the signal has left the electronic components.

You keep talking about room treatments asthough they are some magic bullet. There are limitations to what treatments can do, not to mention practicality. For example: for a diffusor to be effective, it needs to be at least a quarter wavelength of the frequency. That means to affect reflections from a 95Hz sound, the diffusor needs to be at least 3 feet deep. No one is going to do that, not even professional studios.

That leaves EQ to undo the room's unwanted contributions to the sound, especially in the low frequencies, where the room is in control of the sound and treatment size becomes impractical.
 
You're starting from a fantasy premise that doesn't exist in real life.......

Good god man, you realize that the job of the stereo is to reproduce the violin, right? :eek:hyeah:

The whole idea of the stereo is to bring the violin into your room (well, actually, its to take you to where the violin was recorded).

How is having the violin in my room a fantasy?!?!?!? Thats what I want from my stereo.

I've been in very small rooms where a violinist is playing. I listen to a lot of live UNAMPLIFIED music. I have friends who are musicians. I know a bit about GOOD sound!
Real live unamplified instruments sound wonderful in just about any kind of room except for the harshest environment (bare walls, etc) and even then its not so bad.

You seem to be okay with a tone altered version of the violin becasue you've bought into the lie that the room damages the sound of the instruments.
Electronic EQ is typically overcoming shortcomings of the equipment by homogenizing the sound (bose is a good example of sound reproduction travesty).

I think blade runner put it best more human than human. For you, its more violin than a violin. :lol:

There is no electronic EQ that wont damage the integrity of the violin recording.

I prefer to have the actual violin in my house reproduced by good quality equipment.

Enough said, onto something else.....
 
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