Is A CD Player Really Better Than A DVDP For Stereo Music?

nvashi

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
9
Points
3
Location
INDIA
Hello Folks,

Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?

Can I not buy a DVD Player which can also give better sound for my Stereo System (B&W Speakers and NAD Stereo Amp)?

Do I really need to buy CD Player to get real best sound for Stereo Listening or even a good DVD Player gives me better sound quality for Stereo System?



Please give me information.

Nirav
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Hello Folks,

Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?

Can I not buy a DVD Player which can also give better sound for my Stereo System (B&W Speakers and NAD Stereo Amp)?

Do I really need to buy CD Player to get real best sound for Stereo Listening or even a good DVD Player gives me better sound quality for Stereo System?



Please give me information.

Nirav


For a NAD amp and B&W speaker, a cd player is an absolute must ! Good interconnects and speakers wires too. DVD players are mass produced gear for movies.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

If you are looking for the best of both worlds with as little a compromise as possible, try the Arcam FMJDV139, Marantz DV7001 or even the cheaper earlier versions of Oppo if you can still find them.

Unconventional perhaps, but certainly worth the money spend are the excellent mods available for some of the established players out there.

Cheers.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

If you are looking for the best of both worlds with as little a compromise as possible, try the Arcam FMJDV139, Marantz DV7001 or even the cheaper earlier versions of Oppo if you can still find them.

Unconventional perhaps, but certainly worth the money spend are the excellent mods available for some of the established players out there.

Cheers.

Hi nvashi,

I would like to add Cambridge Audio DVD Players DV89 and DV99 models to the audiophile grade players list and these are real good VFM products.

N.Murali
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Please give me information.

This has been discussed many times before but let me recap.

1. The number of pits that make a bit/byte is much more in a DVD as compared to a CD. Consequently, a DVD read/write head has to move in smaller steps to read the larger number of data pits. How does this matter? By the simple fact that a read head is a electromechanical device and is always prone to making errors. While reading from a CD, it could skip a few pits giving you erroneous data.

2. The amount of electronics in a CD player is much less, again leading to lesser interference.

3. A DVD player does not have a very good DAC, as it is expected that the decoding and DAC conversion will be done externally. A CD player, on the other hand, has a very good DAC as it mostly sends analogue data.

4. Given the price and the amount of material inside, a CD player is usually made of better parts. Some of the companies such as Cyrus make their own drives. A DVD player is a mass market item, and in general is just assembled from outsourced items. Though Pioneer is an excellent DVD player, if you open it, you will find more third party labels than Pioneer inside.

5. A DVD player has a short life cycle in terms of design and technology. A CD player, on the other hand is usually designed to last for 5 years or more.

Enough? Of course, whatever I am saying makes sense if you are serious about music. As Spiro and other have said, companies such as CA, Oppo and others have made DVD player that double up as excellent CD players also. I use my Oppo 983 only for playing music.

If I remember right, someone is selling a Oppo 981H for 8K. That is an excellent purchase.

Cheers
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

This has been discussed many times before but let me recap.

1. The number of pits that make a bit/byte is much more in a DVD as compared to a CD. Consequently, a DVD read/write head has to move in smaller steps to read the larger number of data pits. How does this matter? By the simple fact that a read head is a electromechanical device and is always prone to making errors. While reading from a CD, it could skip a few pits giving you erroneous data.

2. The amount of electronics in a CD player is much less, again leading to lesser interference.

3. A DVD player does not have a very good DAC, as it is expected that the decoding and DAC conversion will be done externally. A CD player, on the other hand, has a very good DAC as it mostly sends analogue data.

4. Given the price and the amount of material inside, a CD player is usually made of better parts. Some of the companies such as Cyrus make their own drives. A DVD player is a mass market item, and in general is just assembled from outsourced items. Though Pioneer is an excellent DVD player, if you open it, you will find more third party labels than Pioneer inside.

5. A DVD player has a short life cycle in terms of design and technology. A CD player, on the other hand is usually designed to last for 5 years or more.

Enough? Of course, whatever I am saying makes sense if you are serious about music. As Spiro and other have said, companies such as CA, Oppo and others have made DVD player that double up as excellent CD players also. I use my Oppo 983 only for playing music.

If I remember right, someone is selling a Oppo 981H for 8K. That is an excellent purchase.

Cheers

i must respectfully disagree.

1. DVD has more Data density, meaning more pits/sqcm. If a DVD player Laser can read more pits/sqcm, how can it miss pits on a CD which has less pits/sqcm?
2. All CD/DVD players can be divided into 3 basic parts: a) Drive b) DAC c) the power supply. Interference can be generated by Drive motor and Power supply in both cases.
3. Both DVD Player and CD player have to have a DAC. Also DAC of a typical DVD player will be 24 bit, 192 kHz vs 16 bit, 44.1 KHz of a CD Player (Due to DVD and CD recording standards) However the parameters that should be compared while comparing a CD player to a DVD player are:

Frequency response:
Signal to noise ratio:
Distortion and Noise (1kHz):
Crosstalk (1kHz):
Dynamic Range (1kHz):


4. Different manufacturers does not mean inferior quality.

5. Why? may i ask?

Some more food for thought:
If a DVD player has a better DAC than CD player than will a CD sound better in a DVD player? i dont think so, because the Analog recording was first sampled at 16 bits,441.1 Khz for CD and then burnt on the CD. A DVD player with a better DAC however good, will not be able to produce data that already has been lost while sampling! 16 bit, 44.1 KHz recording on a 24 bit, 192 Khz DAC will be 16 bit 44.1 KHz only. so it does not matter.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

If you really want to hear the BIG difference go for DVD-A/ SACD.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

i must respectfully disagree.

Good, I am quite happy that someone has reacted.

1. DVD has more Data density, meaning more pits/sqcm. If a DVD player Laser can read more pits/sqcm, how can it miss pits on a CD which has less pits/sqcm?

Simply because the way the head positions itself for and moves depends upon pits per sq.cm. In a CD player, the head is programmed is read a fixed number of pits per sq.cm. In a DVD player, the read head has to align itself differently every time you change the media. Since we are talking about very small movements related to the speed at which the media is rotating, there is always a chance of an error. This can of course be avoided if very high quality parts are used, and the head make a few sample runs till it aligns itself properly. This is never done in a DVD player.

If you have used EAC on a computer, you will see that it has a database of drive offset for literally every drive in the world. It compares this with the offset it is getting from your drive and then calculates what is the accuracy of the reading. This is also compounded by the fact that most CDs have scratches and that could lead to more errors. EAC forces the drive to read upto 20 times the same track and sector, before it is happy with the data. Essentially this is done by simply comparing the read with a 'perfect' read that it has on a database.

2. All CD/DVD players can be divided into 3 basic parts: a) Drive b) DAC c) the power supply. Interference can be generated by Drive motor and Power supply in both cases.

True, by a DVD payer has additional electronics for video reading as well as video decoding. Even for audio, a DVD player has to contend with upto 8 channels, while a CD player is worried only about two channels. Some DVD players have separate shielded circuitry for two channel, but that shoots the cost up. In addition, given the size of DVD players, the electronics are are all compacted together in a smaller space.

When playing a DVD it really does not matter as I said the player, in most cases, sends the digital data out for external processing. But if you want the player to process the data internally and send analogue out, you have to contend with all the noise, DAC, and other issues.

3. Both DVD Player and CD player have to have a DAC. Also DAC of a typical DVD player will be 24 bit, 192 kHz vs 16 bit, 44.1 KHz of a CD Player (Due to DVD and CD recording standards)

True, but the quality of DAC will depend upon which DAC chip is used and a number of processing standards. DAC chips from companies such as Burr Brown, Analog Devices etc are expensive and these are never used on mass market DVD Players. The Oppo 95, for example, uses a separate Sabre DAC for two channel audio as well as separate internal circuitry. Such as player can and will most probably beat most CD players in the market.

However the parameters that should be compared while comparing a CD player to a DVD player are:

Frequency response:
Signal to noise ratio:
Distortion and Noise (1kHz):
Crosstalk (1kHz):
Dynamic Range (1kHz):

Absolutely, but what I am trying to say is that if you take a CD player and a DVD player with identical specs, you will hear a difference.

4. Different manufacturers does not mean inferior quality.

I never said that. But when you design a player, if you are using parts with pre-determined specifications, your design has to work around those specs. When you do that, compromises will step in.

5. Why? may i ask?

The technology for CD has not changed in years. So as long as a player can read a Redbook CD well, that is all that is needed. A DVD player has to, on the other hand, contend with swiftly changing specifications - DVD 5, DVD 9, new audio codecs, new video codecs, 5.1, 7.1, and so on. And given the price of the players, it makes sense for a manufacturer to sell a new version with more features every year or so.

If a DVD player has a better DAC than CD player than will a CD sound better in a DVD player? i dont think so, because the Analog recording was first sampled at 16 bits,441.1 Khz for CD and then burnt on the CD. A DVD player with a better DAC however good, will not be able to produce data that already has been lost while sampling! 16 bit, 44.1 KHz recording on a 24 bit, 192 Khz DAC will be 16 bit 44.1 KHz only. so it does not matter.

I don't understand what you saying here. But even then given the same CD (with whatever losses are built in), which will sound better? That is the questions.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

I am using a DVD for music CDs.

For the mass market players, what I made out was, in case you select one with DAC of specs 24 bit/192 kHz .... the depth, clarity and the finesse of the music would be superior PROVIDED the same CD is tried out on other units with lesser DACs, say, 16-24 bit/96 kHz.

Obviously, other factors such as makes of the DACs do matter a lot ... Wolfson, Burr Brown etc. have to have better circuitry as compared to the mass market ones ...
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

I don't know quality wise, why and how the reading mechanism in CDP is usually better when compared to a DVD player. But as far as I know, I am sure there is no electromagnetic head in it reading the data, but an optical reader.... The laser focussed on the disc is reflected by the pits/bumps which are picked up by a optical sensor.


I too feel that if a DVDp head which is capable of making finer movements than a CDp is made to make larger movements when a CD is played, it should be more accurate in picking up the pits than a CDP, logically. May be I am wrong, I am yet to understand fully.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

I don't know quality wise, why and how the reading mechanism in CDP is usually better when compared to a DVD player. But as far as I know, I am sure there is no electromagnetic head in it reading the data, but an optical reader.... The laser focussed on the disc is reflected by the pits/bumps which are picked up by a optical sensor.

I too feel that if a DVDp head which is capable of making finer movements than a CDp is made to make larger movements when a CD is played, it should be more accurate in picking up the pits than a CDP, logically. May be I am wrong, I am yet to understand fully.

I said electromechanical, not electromagnetic. I can explain why there are possibilities of error, but that will be a long, technical and boring discourse.

Cheers
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

I said electromechanical, not electromagnetic. I can explain why there are possibilities of error, but that will be a long, technical and boring discourse.

Cheers

Right. I overlooked it.. And yes, let us not get too technical and hijack this thread!:rolleyes:
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

This calls for an audio test!! front line CD player with a main stream DVD player? Any body up for it? because i dont have a Dedicated CD player? :)
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Yes, it would be very informative.

Psychotropic .... you, upto it?
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

if we are going to have this shootout.. i will chip in with my Pioneer DVD 410 ( with a modified output stage. had this tweak done. Put in better OP AMP's and capacitors ) and i am looking forward to hearing and comparing with other DVDP's or good quality CDP's.

I live in Mumbai so in and around Mumbai is Ok for me..

Regards,
mpw
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

My guess is, that the transport mechanism in DVD Roms are far better than older standard CDROMs in reading data (better lens etc)..thats why companies like Meridian do use DVD ROms in their transport sections.
Perhaps the reason why DVD players do not do cd play well is that the DAC/decoding sections of a CD player is far superior to a generic DVD player which uses the cheapest section here...after all they are mass produced and meant to be low cost.

these days many cdplayers also use the DVD transports as no one really makes dedicated cheap cd transports anymore.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

We have done this shootout a few times before where we had compared the output of my Oppo 983H with that of a Marantz CD player. I think the results are there in the Chennai meet thread.

Unless you are talking about a high end DVD Player with specialised circuitry for audio, a equally priced CD Player will beat it's pants off any time.

Actually it is very easy to do this for anyone. Next time you go to a dealer, ask him to switch between a DVDP and a CDP keeping rest of the equipment the same. Use the same CD, and you will immediately hear the difference.

I also forgot to mention that the internal clock also makes a difference. CD players have a slightly better and more accurate clock.

Cheers
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

This calls for an audio test!! front line CD player with a main stream DVD player? Any body up for it? because i dont have a Dedicated CD player? :)
We did this in the HFV meet pune. I had gotten my Yamaha DVD player, which when hooked to an amp+speaker pair sounded terrible. I don't recall which amp+speaker it was. The "terrible" part is exactly what I also hear when I connect it to my Pace amp+Yamaha speakers at home. Interesting enough - what I am calling terrible I have been happy with until I gotten a taste of what the same Pace+Yamaha pair sounds like with a Marantz CD player.

A related point - my DVD player sounds better after playing it for about 10 mins. It sounds terrible in only in a cold state. I guess it's got something to do with temperature of all the chips inside.

All of this doesn't make a difference when I connect the DVD player to an AVR and to DtoA conversion in the AVR. So it would seem like the main bottleneck in a DVD player is DAC and not the drive mechanism.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

Good interconnects and speakers wires too.
People who use DVD players for playing CDs are likely to do so out of budget constraints (me included :) ). They are more likely to use stock audio interconnects than buying good quality interconnects separately. Those who buy separate CD players are likely to buy good quality interconnects as well. This makes the difference all the more pronounced.
 
Re: ? Is CD Player really make difference over DVD Player for Stereo Listening?? nvas

I think in Chennai Venkat had a shootout of the Oppo 983,CA DV 99 and a marantz CD player. Well the Oppo and CA may be DVD players but would also qualify as good for playing CDs also as compared to the mass market DVD players. I for myself have used the Samsung 1080 PK DVD player, Oppo 981 H, Onkyo Liverpool CD Player and the Marantz 6003 at different points over extended periods of time and I would conclude that the audio quality was differing in all of these cases. Of course the rest of the chain stayed the same. I would rate them as follows

Samsung < Oppo = Onkyo < Marantz
 
For excellent sound that won't break the bank, the 5 Star Award Winning Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Bookshelf Speakers is the one to consider!
Back
Top