Jazz artists who made it big, stayed relatively clean and lived a long, meaningful life

Jayant_S

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So here goes...I've been wanting to start this thread as a Yang to the Yin of Kishore's (@Fiftyfifty) wonderful, but often emotionally overwhelming thread.

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/gone-too-soon-jazz-legends-who-died-young.79141/

Manu Dibango, Tony Allen, Lee Konitz, Ellis Marsalis, John Pizzarelli, Wallace Rooney,....the list of legends silenced in 2020 goes on and on.

We're not even half way through this Annus Horribilis and I already wish it was just a bad memory.

I thought it would be nice to read some feel-good stories as well. Jazz artists who made it big, lived relatively clean, happy and long lives (let's say at least 60 years?)

@Fiftyfifty @moktan @coaltrain @Nikhil @Sushant Sharma and all the Jazz gurus out here - do join in and weigh in. I'm nearly as eager a reader as a listener.

Let me get this started with the biggest name of them all, The Great Satchmo

30B3C1D9-4794-40D4-A093-FDA5A535180C.jpeg

I couldn't possibly do justice on my own to the great man’s life and influence on world music. So here’s one of the several fine biographies I’ve come across, interspersed with a few clips for your listening and viewing pleasure.

Louis Armstrong was born in New Orleans, Louisiana on August 4, 1901. He was raised by his mother Mayann in a neighborhood so dangerous it was called “The Battlefield.” He only had a fifth-grade education, dropping out of school early to go to work. An early job working for the Jewish Karnofsky family allowed Armstrong to make enough money to purchase his first cornet.

On New Year’s Eve 1912, he was arrested and sent to the Colored Waif’s Home for Boys. There, under the tutelage of Peter Davis, he learned how to properly play the cornet, eventually becoming the leader of the Waif’s Home Brass Band. Released from the Waif’s Home in 1914, Armstrong set his sights on becoming a professional musician. Mentored by the city’s top cornetist, Joe “King” Oliver, Armstrong soon became one of the most in-demand cornetists in town, eventually working steadily on Mississippi riverboats.

In 1922, King Oliver sent for Armstrong to join his band in Chicago. Armstrong and Oliver became the talk of the town with their intricate two-cornet breaks and started making records together in 1923. By that point, Armstrong began dating the pianist in the band, Lillian Hardin. In 1924, Armstrong married Hardin, who urged Armstrong to leave Oliver and try to make it on his own. A year in New York with Fletcher Henderson and His Orchestra proved unsatisfying so Armstrong returned to Chicago in 1925 and began making records under his own name for the first time

The records by Louis Armstrong and His Five–and later, Hot Seven–are the most influential in jazz.


Armstrong’s improvised solos transformed jazz from an ensemble-based music into a soloist’s art, while his expressive vocals incorporated innovative bursts of scat singing and an underlying swing feel. By the end of the decade, the popularity of the Hot Fives and Sevens was enough to send Armstrong back to New York, where he appeared in the popular Broadway revue, “Hot Chocolates.” He soon began touring and never really stopped until his death in 1971.

The 1930s also found Armstrong achieving great popularity on radio, in films, and with his recordings. He performed in Europe for the first time in 1932 and returned in 1933, staying for over a year because of a damaged lip. Back in America in 1935, Armstrong hired Joe Glaser as his manager and began fronting a big band, recording pop songs for Decca, and appearing regularly in movies. He began touring the country in the 1940s

In 1947, the waning popularity of the big bands forced Armstrong to begin fronting a small group, Louis Armstrong and His All Stars. Personnel changed over the years but this remained Armstrong’s main performing vehicle for the rest of his career. He had a string of pop hits beginning in 1949 and started making regular overseas tours, where his popularity was so great, he was dubbed “Ambassador Satch.”

In America, Armstrong had been a great Civil Rights pioneer for his race, breaking down numerous barriers as a young man. In the 1950s, he was sometimes criticized for his onstage persona and called an “Uncle Tom” but he silenced critics by speaking out against the government’s handling of the “Little Rock Nine” high school integration crisis in 1957.

Armstrong continued touring the world and making records with songs like “Blueberry Hill” (1949), “Mack the Knife” (1955) and “Hello, Dolly! (1964),” the latter knocking the Beatles off the top of the pop charts at the height of Beatle mania.




The many years of constant touring eventually wore down Armstrong, who had his first heart attack in 1959 and returned to intensive care at Beth Israel Hospital for heart and kidney trouble in 1968. Doctors advised him not to play but Armstrong continued to practice every day in his Corona, Queens home, where he had lived with his fourth wife, Lucille, since 1943. He returned to performing in 1970 but it was too much, too soon and he passed away in his sleep on July 6, 1971, a few months after his final engagement at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York City.
 
With the possible exception of Benny Golson , I cannot think of any other surviving cat of his stature.
Heck Benny (dob - 25 Jan 1929) is about a year older than Rollins (Sept 7, 1930).
I find this version of St Thomas way better than the one in Saxophone Collosus.


 
I always thought the Duke went first.
But no, Duke went to his place in 1974 at the age of 75. Louis though went to his earlier - in 1971.
Nevertheless , The Complete Louis Armstrong Duke Ellington Sessions is a must listen , if not a must have album for any aficionado.
Here is Armstrong belting out Duke’s Place from the aforementioned.




So here goes...I've been wanting to start this thread as a Yang to the Yin of Kishore's (@Fiftyfifty) wonderful, but often emotionally overwhelming thread.

https://www.hifivision.com/threads/gone-too-soon-jazz-legends-who-died-young.79141/

Manu Dibango, Tony Allen, Lee Konitz, Ellis Marsalis, John Pizzarelli, Wallace Rooney,....the list of legends silenced in 2020 goes on and on.

We're not even half way through this Annus Horribilis and I already wish it was just a bad memory.

I thought it would be nice to read some feel-good stories as well. Jazz artists who made it big, lived relatively clean, happy and long lives (let's say at least 60 years?)

@Fiftyfifty @moktan @coaltrain @Nikhil @Sushant Sharma and all the Jazz gurus out here - do join in and weigh in. I'm nearly as eager a reader as a listener.

Let me get this started with the biggest name of them all, The Great Satchmo

View attachment 45535

I couldn't possibly do justice on my own to the great man’s life and influence on world music. So here’s one of the several fine biographies I’ve come across, interspersed with a few clips for your listening and viewing pleasure.

Louis Armstrong was born in New Orleans, Louisiana on August 4, 1901. He was raised by his mother Mayann in a neighborhood so dangerous it was called “The Battlefield.” He only had a fifth-grade education, dropping out of school early to go to work. An early job working for the Jewish Karnofsky family allowed Armstrong to make enough money to purchase his first cornet.

On New Year’s Eve 1912, he was arrested and sent to the Colored Waif’s Home for Boys. There, under the tutelage of Peter Davis, he learned how to properly play the cornet, eventually becoming the leader of the Waif’s Home Brass Band. Released from the Waif’s Home in 1914, Armstrong set his sights on becoming a professional musician. Mentored by the city’s top cornetist, Joe “King” Oliver, Armstrong soon became one of the most in-demand cornetists in town, eventually working steadily on Mississippi riverboats.

In 1922, King Oliver sent for Armstrong to join his band in Chicago. Armstrong and Oliver became the talk of the town with their intricate two-cornet breaks and started making records together in 1923. By that point, Armstrong began dating the pianist in the band, Lillian Hardin. In 1924, Armstrong married Hardin, who urged Armstrong to leave Oliver and try to make it on his own. A year in New York with Fletcher Henderson and His Orchestra proved unsatisfying so Armstrong returned to Chicago in 1925 and began making records under his own name for the first time

The records by Louis Armstrong and His Five–and later, Hot Seven–are the most influential in jazz.


Armstrong’s improvised solos transformed jazz from an ensemble-based music into a soloist’s art, while his expressive vocals incorporated innovative bursts of scat singing and an underlying swing feel. By the end of the decade, the popularity of the Hot Fives and Sevens was enough to send Armstrong back to New York, where he appeared in the popular Broadway revue, “Hot Chocolates.” He soon began touring and never really stopped until his death in 1971.

The 1930s also found Armstrong achieving great popularity on radio, in films, and with his recordings. He performed in Europe for the first time in 1932 and returned in 1933, staying for over a year because of a damaged lip. Back in America in 1935, Armstrong hired Joe Glaser as his manager and began fronting a big band, recording pop songs for Decca, and appearing regularly in movies. He began touring the country in the 1940s

In 1947, the waning popularity of the big bands forced Armstrong to begin fronting a small group, Louis Armstrong and His All Stars. Personnel changed over the years but this remained Armstrong’s main performing vehicle for the rest of his career. He had a string of pop hits beginning in 1949 and started making regular overseas tours, where his popularity was so great, he was dubbed “Ambassador Satch.”

In America, Armstrong had been a great Civil Rights pioneer for his race, breaking down numerous barriers as a young man. In the 1950s, he was sometimes criticized for his onstage persona and called an “Uncle Tom” but he silenced critics by speaking out against the government’s handling of the “Little Rock Nine” high school integration crisis in 1957.

Armstrong continued touring the world and making records with songs like “Blueberry Hill” (1949), “Mack the Knife” (1955) and “Hello, Dolly! (1964),” the latter knocking the Beatles off the top of the pop charts at the height of Beatle mania.




The many years of constant touring eventually wore down Armstrong, who had his first heart attack in 1959 and returned to intensive care at Beth Israel Hospital for heart and kidney trouble in 1968. Doctors advised him not to play but Armstrong continued to practice every day in his Corona, Queens home, where he had lived with his fourth wife, Lucille, since 1943. He returned to performing in 1970 but it was too much, too soon and he passed away in his sleep on July 6, 1971, a few months after his final engagement at the Waldorf-Astoria in New York City.
 
Dizzy Gillespie(1917-93) - jazz lovers know his music, others his face .
He suffered from what they call the glassblowers disease , a doctor called the ballon in his face Gillespie pouches.

Armstrong , Gillespie and Miles were the quintessential trumpet triumvirate of jazz.


1416DF15-4F4A-4E42-AD8E-4E6A7F907A12.jpeg
 
With the possible exception of Benny Golson , I cannot think of any other surviving cat of his stature.
Heck Benny (dob - 25 Jan 1929) is about a year older than Rollins (Sept 7, 1930).
I find this version of St Thomas way better than the one in Saxophone Collosus.


Thanks Moktan. I find Sonny Rollins' life inspirational. He got into heroin addiction like his hero Charlie Parker and like almost all the others around him at the time, but managed to fight it off. Volunteered for rehab, in spite of the misguided fear it would impair his skills. Came out clean and got his second wind.
 
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I always thought the Duke went first.
But no, Duke went to his place in 1974 at the age of 75. Louis though went to his earlier - in 1971.
Nevertheless , The Complete Louis Armstrong Duke Ellington Sessions is a must listen , if not a must have album for any aficionado.
Here is Armstrong belting out Duke’s Place from the aforementioned.


The Duke was also on this thread starter agenda but like you, I found out he went later :)
He does deserve a dedicated long post though. A colossus in his own right
 
So here goes...I've been wanting to start this thread as a Yang to the Yin of Kishore's (@Fiftyfifty) wonderful, but often emotionally overwhelming thread.

Wonderful thread Jayant! One that I have been looking forward to.
But to be fair, we must include those who led relatively unclean lives, made great music and lived long :)
I would also like to read about, and hopefully watch them perform live, those that are still alive. Cut off age 75? - Ahmad Jamal, Roy Haynes, Chick Corea, Lou Donaldson, Curtis Fuller, Wayne Shorter, Sadao Watanabe.....
I liked your yin and yang phrase. I'll try to match each of your yangs with a corresponding yin :):) Is good?
 
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Wonderful thread Jayant! One that I have been looking forward to.
But to be fair, we must include those who led relatively unclean lives, made great music and lived long :)
I would also like to read about, and hopefully watch them perform live, those that are still alive. Cut off age 75? - Ahmad Jamal, Roy Haynes, Chick Corea, Lou Donaldson, Curtis Fuller, Wayne Shorter, Sadao Watanabe.....
I liked your yin and yang phrase. I'll try to match each of your yangs with a corresponding yin :):) Is good?
Thanks Kishore!

But to be fair, we must include those who led relatively unclean lives, made great music and lived long :)
Agreed. Living with addiction and getting around it to live fruitful lives is a happy tale of hope as well.

Cut off age 75?
I picked the government retirement age of 60 :D
But we can be flexible with the age. Any Jazz great who made it past the worst of the substance abuse years and got past middle age.

I liked your yin and yang phrase. I'll try to match each of your yangs with a corresponding yin :):) Is good?
Sounds very good to me! Although the Yin and Yang are easily interchangeable given how one would view the lives of these artists...fuel for another discussion some other time perhaps :)
 
I have often wondered about this. While in both Indian and Western classical music we find performers living a long, active life, in contrast Pop/Rock and Jazz (as well as Hindi film singers in Indian context) have seen relatively shorter life spans.

I see two possible reasons:

1. Classical performers take much longer to mature - they get in their prime usually in their 50s and 60s. So, there’s a lot of ego (as positive self-image) going for them in the later half of their lives. On the other hand Pop/Rock/Jazz icons peak out in their 20s and 30s. Some artists who reinvented themselves proved to be exceptions.

2. The music itself (as well as the discipline that goes behind it)? Why is classical called so? ‘Shastriya’ - something that’s scientific? What does wholesome music do to health - both words coming from the same root -‘heal’? Debatable? Perhaps.

Sorry for the (related) deviation from the topic of the thread.
 
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I have often wondered about this. While in both Indian and Western classical music we find performers living a long, active life, in contrast Pop/Rock and Jazz (as well as Hindi film singers in Indian context) have seen relatively shorter life spans.

I see two possible reasons:

1. Classical performers take much longer to mature - they get in their prime usually in their 50s and 60s. So, there’s a lot of ego (as positive self-image) going for them in the later half of their lives. On the other hand Pop/Rock/Jazz icons peak out in their 20s and 30s. Some artists who reinvented themselves proved to be exceptions.

2. The music itself (as well as the discipline that goes behind it)? Why is classical called so? ‘Shastriya’ - something that’s scientific? What does wholesome music do to health - both words coming from the same root -‘heal’? Debatable? Perhaps.

Sorry for the (related) deviation from the topic of the thread.
Interesting perspective, Sachin. I haven't thought about lifespan being connected to the musical styles. I suppose one can argue for discipline leading to a better well being. But a counter argument is just look at John Coltrane. I don't think there's any musician who was more obsessively disciplined and dedicated to his craft. He died young - barely past 40 years.
Debatable, derivative perspective for sure :)
 
Interesting perspective, Sachin. I haven't thought about lifespan being connected to the musical styles. I suppose one can argue for discipline leading to a better well being. But a counter argument is just look at John Coltrane. I don't think there's any musician who was more obsessively disciplined and dedicated to his craft. He died young - barely past 40 years.
Debatable, derivative perspective for sure :)

Jayant, shouldn‘t we be looking at populations than at individual cases while exploring possible correlations?
 
One thing to consider is the peripatetic lives of the jazzmen of yore. Living out of suitcases , eating hotel food ,imbibing alcohol and other stimulants , dissolution , interminable bus rides from one gig to another.
Such things will ultimately take their toll on the health of even the strongest.

I have often wondered about this. While in both Indian and Western classical music we find performers living a long, active life, in contrast Pop/Rock and Jazz (as well as Hindi film singers in Indian context) have seen relatively shorter life spans.

I see two possible reasons:

1. Classical performers take much longer to mature - they get in their prime usually in their 50s and 60s. So, there’s a lot of ego (as positive self-image) going for them in the later half of their lives. On the other hand Pop/Rock/Jazz icons peak out in their 20s and 30s. Some artists who reinvented themselves proved to be exceptions.

2. The music itself (as well as the discipline that goes behind it)? Why is classical called so? ‘Shastriya’ - something that’s scientific? What does wholesome music do to health - both words coming from the same root -‘heal’? Debatable? Perhaps.

Sorry for the (related) deviation from the topic of the thread.
 
Jayant, shouldn‘t we be looking at populations than at individual cases while exploring possible correlations?
Yes that is the right way to go. What makes the correlation more fascinating is a priori conditions such as rampant substance abuse that was a norm and for some artists even a rite of passage - see the heartbreaking Lee Morgan writeup on Kishore's thread.
Was that the case across all music disciplines? Probably not
 
I have often wondered about this. While in both Indian and Western classical music we find performers living a long, active life, in contrast Pop/Rock and Jazz (as well as Hindi film singers in Indian context) have seen relatively shorter life spans.

I see two possible reasons:

1. Classical performers take much longer to mature - they get in their prime usually in their 50s and 60s. So, there’s a lot of ego (as positive self-image) going for them in the later half of their lives. On the other hand Pop/Rock/Jazz icons peak out in their 20s and 30s. Some artists who reinvented themselves proved to be exceptions.

2. The music itself (as well as the discipline that goes behind it)? Why is classical called so? ‘Shastriya’ - something that’s scientific? What does wholesome music do to health - both words coming from the same root -‘heal’? Debatable? Perhaps.

Sorry for the (related) deviation from the topic of the thread.

Very interesting thought Sachin.

Got me thinking:
  1. Aren't there some very prominent Indian Classical musicians who have subjected themselves to significant abuse, though mainly alcohol, but lived long?
  2. Like you mentioned, most classical musicians reach their prime only in their later years. And that's when we listeners get to hear them. Maybe there are others who passed away when younger, but we had never heard of them as their names were not established?
Would love to see a thread on the lives of classical musicians!

Regards
 
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Very interesting thought Sachin.

Got me thinking:
  1. Aren't there some very prominent Indian Classical musicians who have subjected themselves to significant abuse, though mainly alcohol?
  2. Like you mentioned, most classical musicians reach their prime only in their later years. And that's when we listeners get to hear them. Maybe there are others who passed away when younger, but we had never heard of them as their names were not established?
Would love to see a thread on the lives of classical musicians!

Regards

Interesting counter-argument, especially the second.

As for alcohol abuse, there were/are some like Mukul Shivputra, the super-talented scion of Kumar Gandharva who lost prime years to alcoholism. Some others could manage to not let their consumption affect their longevity. But the discipline of classical music ranges beyond just abstention. It starts from staying with and submitting yourself to the Guru, decades of discipleship, rigorous life-long riyaz, and the spiritual seeking through raga.

Yes that is the right way to go. What makes the correlation more fascinating is a priori conditions such as rampant substance abuse that was a norm and for some artists even a rite of passage - see the heartbreaking Lee Morgan writeup on Kishore's thread.
Was that the case across all music disciplines? Probably not

And why not, Jayant? Has the temperance got partly to do with the musical form and how the the profession/career is approached by the artists? For example I wonder if for many Jazz cats from the 50s and 60s, with little formal education and tough social background, was it a bigger challenge (like say Vinod Kambli) to put their early fame into perspective?
 
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As for alcohol abuse, there were/are some like Mukul Shivputra, the super-talented scion of Kumar Gandharva who lost prime years to alcoholism. Some others could manage to not let their consumption affect their longevity. But the discipline of classical music ranges beyond just abstention. It starts from staying with and submitting yourself to the Guru, decades of discipleship, rigorous life-long riyaz, and the spiritual seeking through raga.

Completely agree about the dedication and submission to the Guru. In fact, many undergo decades of riyaz without ever getting a chance to perform publicly. And when they finally do perform, they end up sounding just like the guru - e.g. Madhav Gudi, Upendra Bhat sounding like Pt. Bhimsen Joshi. Strange that they were never encouraged to develop their own unique style.
But apologies to Jayant for going completely off topic here. Do start a separate thread Sachin!
 
But apologies to Jayant for going completely off topic here. Do start a separate thread Sachin!
No apologies! Considering that improv was such a important element in Jazz - let's keep this flow going!
I can say that Sachin has introduced a quarter tone or a blue note into the discussion :D
I'll introduce the next legend bio in few days to gently change track. Please keep going :)
 
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