KEF Q300 - NAD 320BEE + DacMagic or Maratz NR1504 / Yammy DSP-A595a

[ujjwaana]

To begin with, I belong to old skool DIY Solid State Amp and full range Floor Standers of 1990 era (while I was still in School) and recently moved to HTS for my living room after putting a Stage-I ICE in my car and an entry level Audiophile Cans+DSP at office Desk.

My expected usage 80% Stereo listening (FLAC/320KBPS MP3/ VH1 on HD STB) and 20% Movie (purist, not a surround fan)

I began with the how Audiophiles suggest - started with drivers. I auditioned some entry level floor standers and on being disappointed , on my near friends suggestion, I auditioned KEF Q300 which was falling within my budget. I found a used one on OLX and auditioned it paired with NAD C320BEE. I liked the setup , as much as 3 times costly Rotel + B/W setup I heard at Audio Vision (Indira Nagar, Bangalore). I again auditioned the Q300 paired with Marantz 6008 at Profx and I was sold. I bought the used one as there was saving of 11K, and they were in immaculate condition (and broken-in). Still somehow I felt that they sounded better on NAD even in a less acoustic environment of that gentleman's home than ProFx.

Now I am in a dilemma. I dont have an array of sources in my Mind. I have :
1. DishTV HD STB for movies and music
2. Minix Android TV - For XBMC/Youtube/other online and local media on NAS.
3. Laptop, occasionally

Both the sources have Optical out as well as HDMI and I somehow prefer Optical over HDMI as I would not be bothered with HDMI Pass-thru as its side effects of its presence and pain of its absence.

I am kind of indulged with dedicated DAC at office (Audioengine D1) and almost dislike in built DACs of STB and the Android Box / Laptops. I also kind of liked the Warm, detailed and clean power of the NAD C320 (though I look for C236 as well), I am now planning to buy the NAD Amp from the same gentleman and pair with with either:
1. Cambridge Audio DacMagic
2. Arcam irDac
3. Beresford TC-7510
All the above support 2 Optical input.

But this would again be as costly as buying the latest entry level AVRs from Marantz or Denon. My second thought is to get Marantz NR1504 which has all the bells and whistles of DLNA et all and can also enable expansion to Rear and Central channels in the future.

But again, I cherish the detailed, clean and balanced sound and not sure if the Amps of these AVR would match up to the Classic NAD and whether their DAC would be match that of a dedicated ones.

I bet that there would be some FM would have gone through same phase and they can shed some light to me.

Thanks in advance
Ujjwal

 

[Santy]

You have got one of the best speakers in its class.
Now if you are serious about music, you must consider a proper DAC+AMP combo rather than an AVR. No doubt an AVR will look impressive with all the features and flexibility it has to offer but it cannot hold a candle against a dedicated DAC+ Amp when it comes to music.

I dont know how you shortlisted the Beresford dac but if you find the Caiman Gatorized, get it with eyes closed. One of the finest DACs I have ever heard within 2x of its price range. The Arcam and CA DACs also are great choices and they will take you the next level of music experience assuming you have not used a dedicated DAC in your setup so far.

Coming to the amp, it will be purely subjective, since each have their own signature. An entry level NAD or Marantz integrated will be enough to make your KEFs sing to its ability.

Good luck in your hunt.

 

[ujjwaana]

Thanks for the Reply Santy. You reaffirm my belief on Discrete system. I have absolute requirement of Twin Optical I/P, else the world of DACs would have opened to me. The Beresford TC-7510 came into picture as it too sports twin SPIDF and was decently reviewed on WhatHiFi. How about Chinese DACs/ DTS encoders ? Are they worth it ?? I can take the DIY path, but asthetics would take a beat. How about these :
TC 7510 Digital Optical Coax to Analog Audio Converter Headphone Amplifier DAC | eBay

HLLY New TMK III DTS Ac3 5 1 DAC for Home Audio | eBay

I know They could be absolute trash... My last recourse would be using a Optical Swith like this and use IR chaining to select I/P. There would be hardly anything for DAC to change. I can even think of ripping a decent DAC and house it along with the Optical Switcher :
SPDIF Toslink Digital Optical Audio 3x1 Switch Adapter Selector for AV Amplifer | eBay

Too much for the weekend... I think I need to secure the NAD Amp before it is gone. I can still use my Audioengine D1 before I land with a permanent DAC...

 

[Santy]

The Beresford DAC you have mentioned is not in production now. I think it may be available only on ebay. If not, you could settle with either of the other two DACs. You can consider Shitt Bifrost too. Got rave reviews. I have seen this TC7510 on ebay earlier which is strikingly similar to the Beresford DAC but its quite possible that the inside is entirely different.

Having said that you must not choose a DAC for its two optical inputs - as you may probably change the STB to something else (all others have coaxial I guess) or your new music source would have coaxial. You also have optical to coaxial converters apart from optical splitters for this purpose.

Regarding that Chinese 5.1 DAC, it seems to be in a confused stage between a regular DAC and a pre processor. Please stay away from it.

 

[osilangled]

Regarding that Chinese 5.1 DAC, it seems to be in a confused stage between a regular DAC and a pre processor. Please stay away from it.

 

[locopoco]

I am also in a similar situation......After a long long wait and many auditions later, I chose to go with the Q300s.....was fairly taken in by the Concept 20, but somehow liked the sound of kef better.

Now, the challenge is the amp. I have heard both nad and marantz pair well with kef. This is my first foray in the audiophile space and am a complete novice. Plus, the Q300 have blown a hole in my pocket. So, am hunting for a decent amp relatively light on the wallet. Music would be mainly on the phone, I pod n laptop.

I cannot lug my speakers to the showrooms and try out the Amps...honestly, I am not sure how to judge an amp. Atleast, when I was hearing different speakers, even my novice ears could make out the difference in sound. But, am clueless on the amp.

Would welcome all advice.....

 

[ujjwaana]

So folks, I already bought NAD 320BEE and hooked up to my Audioengine D1. I have also bought a CA Dacmagic which would be dispatched the a FM soon to complete the setup.

@locopoco , Pal I have auditioned the Speakers with Marantz AVR and now I have the setup with an Integrated Amp like classic NAD. And for sure, even in a makeshift arrangement and still with sub par RCA , KEFs sound better than they sounded with Marantz.

As far as I have read around, the KEF go well with NAD, Rotel and of course Marantz. One fellow from from Mumbai is selling his NAD 326BEE but his expectation is more. There is one Rotel RA-1060 on sale (25k) on Mumbai Olx and one Rotel RA 05(34k) . I would suggest you to do a systematic investment in a way that you need not to sell too many things. Get a one of these Amps and play on RCA. Next get a decent Processor or a Dac land then Sub. What Stands you are looking for these speakers ?

 

[locopoco]

Hi Ujjwaana,

Well, i still am on the hunt for the amp....am getting an option of a used NAD 320 .....would get to know the details within a day or so.

How do q300 go with nad320 - can you share more details.

How would 320 compare with nad 316 or 326...

byw, how much did you pay for the 320....this would give me an idea !!

I am not sure whether to go for a pre-owned amp for i would not how if there are any problems with that piece - a new one guarantees some peace of mind - but the cost advantage can be substantial.

Guess, i will close the amp before this week is over and get to the business of listening music .... hopefully

Bro, right now the speakers would sit on the TV trolley...rented apartments do not give you many options...so the stands would have to wait

But, i think you are right.... i would settle for the amp first and then look at DAC etc.

 

[ujjwaana]

@locopoco:
The NAD 320BEE looks like it is 'Made For' KEF Q300. I think KEF dealers should think again about using Marantz AVR for customer auditions.

My friend who had B&W 685 with Marantz 6008 was baffled to hear the sound. Even the gentleman whom I brought the Speakers (he himself deal in HiFi project and products) was very delighted to hear the setup at my place when he paid a kind visit.

I paid 16K for the NAD 320BEE.

On the side note, just last week I got a used NAD 326BEE through a friend and have been auditioning that too. I might let go either of the Amps (my initial feeling is that KEF Q300 pairs better with NAD 320 than 326 and is bit fuller and warmer - my taste).

Don't think much buying a used equipment as long as the seller is reputed. You can ask him if the set had any repairs and on commitment of purchase, you can also ask him to open the Lid of the Amp and check if the board was ever removed by finding the presence of 'Dye' on the screws. But yes, used equipment is always a 'gamble' component, which could be minimized by buying from known/reputed people.

 

[locopoco]

Well, well

Exciting last two weeks for me.

The NAD resale option didnot materialisesince the seller disapperared.

So, me and a friend lugged the Q300's and went to Lakozy to hear the NADs.

We first heard the 316 & later the 326. See, this was my first ever amp audition and i was very curious on how two different amps sound.

The 316 was nice. We heard a couple of songs and switched on to the 326 to see how it sounded.

And even for my friend's and my ears (both absolute newbies) - the difference was apparent. The sound seemed more full - as if the speakers had acquired a new energy. Now, i know what extra power in an amp can do to speakers !

One peculiar thing that I noted was English music (bit of pop n rock) sounded much better than hindi music.

We also heard the new 3020 - it was quite compact and small. sounded nice too !

But a back to back hearing with 326 and i realised the 326 was in a different league.

Phew,so I thought i would pick the 326 and embark on my journey of musical hifi.... but then, Lakozy guys got stuck on the price.

Not a single rupee off . The NAD 326 was as it is out of my budget ( i had gone there, mentally considering the 316)... i figured some discount and i would stretch some and get the 326.

But the Lakozy guys did not budge.

Disappointed, we went to Bandra to hear Marantz. I wanted to hear both the PM5004 & PM6004

The PM5004 was not available, so heard the 6004. As soon as the first song played, my friend said this sounded better. I concurred. I mean, the Marantz just sounded better - sort of more musical. Heard a couple of more songs and the listening experience validated that we felt Marantz felt relatively better.

With a bit of stretch and some bargaining, we closed the Marantz PM6004....

And now, both the Q300's and PM6004 occupy a pride of place in my living room...

Will share my listening experiences !!!

 

[AmitKumar]

Well, well

The PM5004 was not available, so heard the 6004. As soon as the first song played, my friend said this sounded better. I concurred. I mean, the Marantz just sounded better - sort of more musical. Heard a couple of more songs and the listening experience validated that we felt Marantz felt relatively better.

With a bit of stretch and some bargaining, we closed the Marantz PM6004....

And now, both the Q300's and PM6004 occupy a pride of place in my living room...

Will share my listening experiences !!!

Congratulations! A very decent setup to start with.

Globally KEF uses Marantz amplifiers to offer audition of their products. there is a proven synergy between KEF Q300 and Marantz PM6004.

Though you could have checked the new model Marantz PM6005 also.

 

[locopoco]

Thanx.....

I had read quite a bit on PM6004. So,it was the audition that I was waiting for...

I was not aware of 6005.Guess, it was the cusp of time when it was just launched and I had not read or heard about its launch.

Though, as of now I am quite happy with 6004, I am a litttle confused on the DAC. PM6005 had the added benefit of an inbuilt DAC.

Most of my music is in mp3 (and i daresay, very average quality ... ) So, the objective now is to upgrade my existing collection to flac etc.

So, the confusion is with flac or 320kbps mp3, will I still need DAC. Can somebody shed more light on this....

I would be grateful ...

 

[ujjwaana]

Well, well

But a back to back hearing with 326 and i realised the 326 was in a different league.

Disappointed, we went to Bandra to hear Marantz. I wanted to hear both the PM5004 & PM6004

The PM5004 was not available, so heard the 6004. As soon as the first song played, my friend said this sounded better. I concurred. I mean, the Marantz just sounded better - sort of more musical. Heard a couple of more songs and the listening experience validated that we felt Marantz felt relatively better.

Will share my listening experiences !!!

Congrats Pal for the setup. Of course Marantz sounded good to me aswell, which sold the speaker to me. NAD 316 was a subpar Amp for these speaker and 320/326 is absolute requirement IMHO.
What quality you liked more on PM6004 ? I would love to audition it sometime as if I sell my both NAD 320 and 326, I can easily afford it.

Thanx.....

Though, as of now I am quite happy with 6004, I am a litttle confused on the DAC. PM6005 had the added benefit of an inbuilt DAC.

Most of my music is in mp3 (and i daresay, very average quality ... ) So, the objective now is to upgrade my existing collection to flac etc.

So, the confusion is with flac or 320kbps mp3, will I still need DAC. Can somebody shed more light on this....
I would be grateful ...

For anything above 128kbps, a DAC makes a day-night difference, and specially with FLAC. I cannot even listen to my Laptop Speaker out on such a system. Though PM6005 DAC chip is highly regarded, its is not recommended for pure stereo setup as channel separation and jitters may mar the overall SQ.

What are your requirements ?? What inputs you would need - DSD/USB/SPIDF/Coax ?? What Sampling rates you are looking I have CA Dacmagic and kind of Happy with it and planning to DIY a Saber 9801 DAC. But then there are many choices with 24bit/192Khz sampling like those from Arcam, Beresford, CA, Beresford etc. Be careful before choosing one. Though not as critical as Amp-Driver synergy, a bad DAC can really ruin your entire setup.

 

[locopoco]

Congrats Pal for the setup. Of course Marantz sounded good to me aswell, which sold the speaker to me. NAD 316 was a subpar Amp for these speaker and 320/326 is absolute requirement IMHO.
What quality you liked more on PM6004 ? I would love to audition it sometime as if I sell my both NAD 320 and 326, I can easily afford it.



For anything above 128kbps, a DAC makes a day-night difference, and specially with FLAC. I cannot even listen to my Laptop Speaker out on such a system. Though PM6005 DAC chip is highly regarded, its is not recommended for pure stereo setup as channel separation and jitters may mar the overall SQ.

What are your requirements ?? What inputs you would need - DSD/USB/SPIDF/Coax ?? What Sampling rates you are looking I have CA Dacmagic and kind of Happy with it and planning to DIY a Saber 9801 DAC. But then there are many choices with 24bit/192Khz sampling like those from Arcam, Beresford, CA, Beresford etc. Be careful before choosing one. Though not as critical as Amp-Driver synergy, a bad DAC can really ruin your entire setup.

Thanx Buddy...

I agree withyou on 316. Infront of NAD326 it was quite pale.

I donot how to put it - but when i sought of compared PM6004 & 326 - for want of a better word - i would say, the Marantz seemed more musical.

The 326 was powerful. The auditioning space at Lakozy is quite huge and the sound seemd to fill the space up nicely. What I noticed was that English songs seemed much better than Hindi ones on NAD. Somehow, Hindi songs sounded a little "mechanical" ......

Since, that was my first amp audition, I was ready to pick 326 since i actually found it pretty good. So, when the deal didn't go thru' is when i went for the Marantz audition.

There was no comparison in the audition environment of Lakozy(for NAD) and Marantz (at a distributor in Bandra). For Marantz, the room was smallish - the distributor had limited music available and we were also tired.

But, the sound seemd more 'sweet' in Marantz....we tried old hindi songs which my friend was carrying in his USB and they seemd better.

I think the real test can be done only when both amps are compared together in same environment n music.... then only, i guess, a reasonable conclusion can be drawn.

On DAC, i haven't yet made any move. I am thinking of getting some music on flac etc and compare them to the current low grade mp3 recordings that i have. Once, i start appreciating & identifying that difference - then
a.) get all music to flac etc
b) hear those though a DAC to see the difference that comes
c) buy a DAC :lol:


heee, it is just the beginning for me......hyeah:

 

[shibashis]

Thanx Buddy...

I agree withyou on 316. Infront of NAD326 it was quite pale.

I donot how to put it - but when i sought of compared PM6004 & 326 - for want of a better word - i would say, the Marantz seemed more musical.

The 326 was powerful. The auditioning space at Lakozy is quite huge and the sound seemd to fill the space up nicely. What I noticed was that English songs seemed much better than Hindi ones on NAD. Somehow, Hindi songs sounded a little "mechanical" ......

Since, that was my first amp audition, I was ready to pick 326 since i actually found it pretty good. So, when the deal didn't go thru' is when i went for the Marantz audition.

There was no comparison in the audition environment of Lakozy(for NAD) and Marantz (at a distributor in Bandra). For Marantz, the room was smallish - the distributor had limited music available and we were also tired.

But, the sound seemd more 'sweet' in Marantz....we tried old hindi songs which my friend was carrying in his USB and they seemd better.

I think the real test can be done only when both amps are compared together in same environment n music.... then only, i guess, a reasonable conclusion can be drawn.

On DAC, i haven't yet made any move. I am thinking of getting some music on flac etc and compare them to the current low grade mp3 recordings that i have. Once, i start appreciating & identifying that difference - then
a.) get all music to flac etc
b) hear those though a DAC to see the difference that comes
c) buy a DAC :lol:


heee, it is just the beginning for me......hyeah:

My own experience in terms of hifi is quite limited,but even I will vouch for the need of a DAC. It makes almost a 'world' of difference. There are many many available, for all budgets and all needs, so rejoice and pick one !

 

[canchi]

I have a similar setup, the KEF Q300s with the Marantz PM 6004 amp. I have added the Musical Fidelity VDAC II to the set-up and it does make a difference when the source is a PC or Laptop, see this short comparison that I made at the time I first set up the DAC. The DAC did not make much of a difference when I changed the source ( used a Sony PS3 to play the CD/music files), see the same review.
Cheers

 

[ujjwaana]

Thanx Buddy...

I agree withyou on 316. Infront of NAD326 it was quite pale.

On DAC, i haven't yet made any move. I am thinking of getting some music on flac etc and compare them to the current low grade mp3 recordings that i have. Once, i start appreciating & identifying that difference - then
a.) get all music to flac etc
b) hear those though a DAC to see the difference that comes
c) buy a DAC :lol:


heee, it is just the beginning for me......hyeah:

One CA Dacmagic is on sale in Mumbai:
Cambridge Audio DacMagic Digital to Audio Converter Scratchless - Mumbai - Home Appliances - Electronics - Malad West

I would not agree that DAC does not make a difference. It depends. If you already have a Pro grade BD Player like Oppo 105, then putting a DAC of this league in between would make things worse. But for little inferior transport/sources and Settop Boxes, putting a decent DAC definitely makes a difference.

This DAC, though not the best in the market, beats many other DACs at the price point. It has been reviewed well and received good verdicts

Cambridge Audio DacMagic review from the experts at whathifi.com
Cambridge Audio Azur DacMagic D/A converter | Stereophile.com

I would warn here that CA Dacmagic best performs with Coax and Optical input. Its USB performance is subpar as it supports only 16bit/44.1Khz Synchronous and it fared worse than my little Audioengine D1 DAC on USB.

 

[locopoco]

Thanx Shibashis n Canchi for the heads up !

I am more n more convinced on the DAC.....maybe use my birthday as an excuse to buy one

Btw, Canchi, i remember going through your thread before finally deciding on my set-up. And it sort of helped me validate the purchasein my head !

Ujjwana bro, pardon my ignorance, but the way things are looking, I think my music will reside on a laptop only (or an external hard drive). I may use i-pod or phone as a source also.

also, whatever CDs i have, i think i will use my laptop as a player for them.

Now, you can suggest me the kind of DAC that i can go for....

Will a DAC improve the performance of CDs played throgh a laptop. I have very few and do not intend to buy too many - hence a dedicated CD player does not seem necessary.