Lack of quality entry level speakers

greenhorn

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cross posting from reubensm's thread
There is loads of entry-level hifi that has no bells and no whistles, just stereo sound. There has been for decades, and it does it at prices that, in previous decades were unimaginable.

If you must compare, then at least compare like with like.

My point was not that modern hifi offers much better stuff at lower price points - It does, and I'm very grateful for it, but my point was that nobody is interested in buying high fidelity, and most of what passes for entry level hi fi isn't actually.

To give an example -

At the very lowest rung, 10 years ago, there were very nice PC speakers at every price point below 10k. Starting with the altec lansing ATP3 at 3K, the MX5021 at 6K, and the Z2300 at 8K. all of these speakers sounded very fine for their respective prices.
Fast forward to now. The ATP3 was replaced by the VS4121 which was only marginally inferior, but the VS 4621 is sad and costs about substantially more. The MX5021 was replaced by the FX6021 which looked better, was more expensive, but sounded worse. The Z2300 was replaced by the Z623, you can read the comparison here
http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/14365-logitech-z-2300-last-titans-reviewed.html

The circle arko 80/100W were a good attempt, but circle didn't push them as much, and landmarks weren't the best place to sell them, eventually they disappeared.

If you filter for the sub 10K price range in flipkart or amazon india, you'll get surround speakers, bluetooth speakers, lifestyle speakers, speakers with USB inputs, wireless speakers and so forth, but not a single high quality stereo/2.1 speaker.

Given that altec lansing used to sell something at the 6k price point not too long ago and circle at 7-8K till last year, it should be possible, but nobody wants to buy it, and the ones who tried selling them have moved to greener pastures.
 
10k, 10 years ago is equalent of 40k today.
Raw material cost and employee salaries increased.
What do you expect?

I would assume, 'Entry level' price needs to revised to like 'below 20k' now.
 
Prices have increased like crazy. Back in mid-late 2008, a Wharfdale 9.5 was 17k. A Mordant Short Avant 904i was 18 odd. The next gen 10.5 and Avianos were priced just double. But, to my ears the 10.5s fared much much worse than their predecessors.

Everything gets slightly bigger and slightly worse with every subsequent generation. Oh, not to forget a big price bump. (The W124 was launched at a then eye watering 20 big ones. Now, a B180 costs more).

ATP3 was my first decent set of speakers. Needs a full wiring change. I have a feeling that the "service" would cost at least 1/4 of the original price.
 
Have commodity costs gone up 4X? I'd say somewhere around 1.5-2X at the max. At least PC peripheral prices have remained more or less stable.

Surely, You jest:D

I think most things would be more than 2x from 2004 - as a simple proxy, look at real estate costs pretty much any where in india. Other proxies - gold (5x in 10 years), food (around 3x), oil (over 4x in INR terms), copper, iron etc would again be 4x or more. Even the equity markets are more than 4x
 
Hi ,
what about these speakers

- pioneer SP-BS22-LR (12k)
- NHT series
- Cambridge audio CA S30
- micca MB 42 X
- Dayton B652 ( quality is down now)
- Sony SSB1000

IMO with a jriver computer setup along with these speakers and a tiny amp ( topping ? ) you should be able to get close to stereophile level sound.

Regards
 
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Even though this is about stereo speakers, I want to throw in HT satellites in the mix - Monoprice 8247 5.1 set . I say from experience that this is the 'best' speaker set you can get for less than 10K (if you exclude shipping costs). I got just the 5.0 speakers through someone (asking them to carry the sub was bordering on cruel) who carried them with him, and they are superb for watching movies. I've upgraded to Pioneers though, but I am liking the Monoprice set enough to not to put them up in the sale thread. They are just too good for it's price.

My opinion is quite contradictory to the OP. I think nowadays there's a lot of products which fall into the cheap and cheerful category which is available worldwide. Unfortunately for us in India, the shipping and customs play spoilsport. There are a lot of options available at a comparatively lower cost amps/dacs/speakers which are available for someone to set up their first hifi. It's as if the manufacturers have started looking at the bottom of the pyramid and want to start targeting them with 'audiophile' products.
 
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Well I found out about them from this very forum!

One of the user mentioned this after reading this review on CNET. I wanted to kick start my HT and had purchased a receiver but did not have any funds for a good speaker set. Before this I heard them during one of the Mumbai HT meets at Avenue Sound. They were not bad at all, so I got them from the US directly via someone who carried the satellites in their suitcase! They have metal grilles so there was no damage to them at all. These cannot produce any bass worth a penny but pair them with a good sub and you got yourself a good enough starter set.
 
What is entry level here is totally different in US or other developed countries. All the reviews are from developed countries and based on the price of a particular product there. We rely on those reviews here without realizing that prices are almost double. Still we consider them worth buying, why, because we do not have in house brands that could provide even entry level quality. Even if we have some, they priced their products in such a way that people think why local when we get imported branded products. So entry level becomes mid/high level here. Even an entry level set up here requires budget allocation and financial planning for most of the common people.

What is the barrier?? Technology, Labour, Cost of raw material or simply unwillingness or market. I can't see any other reason except technology and willingness.

Just my thoughts/frustration.
 
10,000Rs, or uk100, has not been much to spend on a pair of speakers for a long, long time. I seem to remember that I got my Mission 2.1 desktop set for less than that, reduced to about 1/3rd of MRP as a Richer-Sounds deal, when the company stopped making them. They looked cheap and plastic --- but sounded much better! It was hard to compare them with the replacement M-Audio AV40, as they had been breaking down for some time before they finally died. The M-Audio AV40, entry-level powered speakers for, I think, about 16,000 here. Whilst I often comment on the desirability of real active speakers, eg Adam, Genelec, etc, I sometimes listen to my AV-40s and wonder if it is really worth it! But then, I am a bit deaf, so don't take my word for it.

My first system was UK400 for TT, cassette, amp and speakers. But that was in 1980-something. And it was a Richer Sounds deal too.

(For those who don't know Richer Sounds, they are a high-volume-but-small-shop chain in the UK that founded their business on combining box-shifting with actually knowing something about hifi, and only selling stereo separates. They are now much bigger in size and turnover, but a shadow of their former selves in other ways. Separates only has gone out the window: they sell HT and even consumer electrics now. However, they are probably still the place for the entry-level (and even higher) buyer in UK. The existance of such a company in India would be huge blessing to would-be hifi-ers, and a curse to the other dealers, many of whom would just die. Who would buy over-priced old stock that they can't even demo, when Richer Sounds sells it at 1/3rd the price and manages to squeeze a demo room into their tiny shops! Oh, Indian dealers, look at Richer Sounds and be afraid! That is the future. The rest of the world has had it for 30 years.)
 
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Have commodity costs gone up 4X? I'd say somewhere around 1.5-2X at the max. At least PC peripheral prices have remained more or less stable.

2X cost increase every 5 years is just about expected.

PC peripheral costs remained stable or even reduced in some cases. Audiophile grade Speakers are hardly PC peripherals. To maintain illusion of stable price, the quality has to go down.

There are companies (Logitech) who replaced their flagships with inferior products time and again and have become overall mediocre companies.
 
I own Logitech Z-5500, excellent 5.1 system, but now discontinued. Please search if available some where. I purchased it 4 yrs.back for Rs.18000/-
It has 10"subwoofer and control pod with optical and co-axial and RCA inputs for all channels. Room shaking bass. A wonderful product!
 
Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers in Red Mahogany finish at a Special Offer Price. BUY now before the price increase.
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