Listening to Digital format became a torture today - Hoping for relief later

[Hari Iyer]

Past 2 weeks i was just listening to my turntable all the time and would have listened to atleast 20+ albums in two weeks. I dont know if i can call this an analogue overdose, but i was liking to what i was listening. Today i switched listening to my CD player and tried playing some Dier straits original CD purchased earlier this year. But the very same CD which i adored for the sound stage and recording sounded very dull and boring to me. I dont know if it was the analogue hangover that has taken over me. I am not sure if this is one of the reason if FM @prem dont listen to digital at all. I have been listening now for past one hour and still i am finding the CD format very very boring. One more reason to not buy any streaming device. I think this analogue hangover should be over within a couple of hours/days. But one thing is evident that a CD can never beat a TT for the sound stage and natural sound. Period. Dont know if other FM find such hangover. Better to alternate between CD & TT rather than listening to TT for a long time. But the reverse is not true. I can easily adjust within a minute to my TT after listening to CD for months together. Some thing about the Vinyls are very addictive.

 

[Suraj75]

Hi Hari, I completely agree. Listening to Vinyl will spoil one and difficult to listen to other sources. At least I can say that I am having similar opinion while listening to CD and streaming and I am convinced enough that I will discontinue my streaming services.

By the way, you have wonderful rig (all vintage, field coils etc.) and I am sure that I will spoil myself if listen to your system

Rajeev

 

[soundbuff]

Hari, just to share another point of view, not to disregard your experience.
I have been through the vinyl thing and yes under perfect conditions it does sound more physical in the same way that SET sounds like real flesh and bone. But today, thirty plus years down the road of listening to .sound quality', I had almost stopped listening to music. I think perhaps I might be done with analog, and maybe even with tubes, partly because of the rigmarole, but mostly because there is so much more to listen to on digital and the quality is decent enough!. I am of course glad you had a great listening session with analog, do enjoy and of course keep the flag flying. Stay safe.

 

[Yogesh]

Hari, just to share another point of view, not to disregard your experience.
I have been through the vinyl thing and yes under perfect conditions it does sound more physical in the same way that SET sounds like real flesh and bone. But today, thirty plus years down the road of listening to .sound quality', I had almost stopped listening to music. I think perhaps I might be done with analog, and maybe even with tubes, partly because of the rigmarole, but mostly because there is so much more to listen to on digital and the quality is decent enough!. I am of course glad you had a great listening session with analog, do enjoy and of course keep the flag flying. Stay safe.

Yes, Going digital opens a far wider spectrum of music. Vinyl in it's all glory, needs physical media to be bought. stored, preserved and includes elaborate procedure to play. But. It has it's romanticism and what you hear is unmatched.

 

[Lizard King]

Vinyl is an aging mistress. Whose upkeep is becomeing more expensive by the day.
Yet the question of letting her go doesn't arise.
Especially when Jimmy Hendrix and Band of Gypsies are wailing in the background as I type this
It's a 35 year old disk made in the Calcutta HMV factory. The IGD is driving me nuts. But do I f****** care!!

 

[Hari Iyer]

Hari, just to share another point of view, not to disregard your experience.
I have been through the vinyl thing and yes under perfect conditions it does sound more physical in the same way that SET sounds like real flesh and bone. But today, thirty plus years down the road of listening to .sound quality', I had almost stopped listening to music. I think perhaps I might be done with analog, and maybe even with tubes, partly because of the rigmarole, but mostly because there is so much more to listen to on digital and the quality is decent enough!. I am of course glad you had a great listening session with analog, do enjoy and of course keep the flag flying. Stay safe.

I think it's more to do with my setup rather than blame digital format altogether. My tube amp is SET class A direct couple type. Field coil speakers are 80+ years old from pre world war 2 era with original spiders. The other driver is too from 1954 era. The Turntable from 1974 era. The records I play from pre1975 era. How can a digital sound meant more for morden type setup match with that. Having said that the setup do play quite good with digital too if the mastering is good, but cannot match any mono recordings from pre 1970 era Bollywood or Western. Only listening by FMs can confirm this what I meant to say.

 

[square_wave]

As part of a deliberate experiment, me and friend of mine once listened to a bunch of music ( CD vs Vinyl ) in the same setup using equally good and high end digital and vinyl playback systems. The speakers and amplification was quite high end. It was at a dealer's place and well setup so it was easy to do

Here is what we noticed.

1. For music that was mastered with equal attention to quality for both vinyl and cd, the difference was minuscule. Digital actually had more dynamic range. Vinyl had that slight edge of warmth and analogue feel that you get only with vinyl. But that difference was not drastic enough to disregard digital.

2. With music where Vinyl was mastered better than CD, you will never listen to the CD.

3. With music where the CD was better mastered, the preference was CD but the vinyl had that romantic feel to it that makes you want to listen to it once in a while.

We did not listen to Vinyl or Digital that were mastered so bad they are not listenable at all. I guess those are edge cases and the " choice " is pretty obvious.

We came to the conclusion that the preference for Vinyl or Digital was predominantly decided by your music. If your music collection is better mastered on Vinyl and those are available too, you should be doing Vinyl. And vice versa.

 

[spirovious]

I remember when I heard CD very first time, I was blown away with clarity, Low noise no hiss. Was it due to 1 bit DAC?

 

[COOLDUDE7808]

This does happen and somewhere our preference for the format which we associate with good SQ makes us lose out on listening to good music .
I had stopped listening to new releases in the past 2 to 3 yrs since they were all online releases and not released on CD . It was this bias in my mind that only CD is equal to good Quality SQ and online is not so . That phase is now partly over and I am back to listening to good music irrespective of the format .

To give an example I would have listened to a soundtrack like Manmarziyan or Gully Boy on a loop if it was available on CD but thanks to my bias its not so . I then decided to add a separate sheet in my List of Audio CD's excel workbook saying "Digital Releases" so that I dont lose track of some good music just because its not released on CD.

 

[shafic]

Hi Hari,
you will change your mind when you listen to my CD setup.
Regards

 

[firearm12]

Getting a good r2r dac and few source cable changes can go a long way in appreciating analog sound in digital medium.

 

[fLUX]

To get an analog , warmish signature I feel the important thing in Digital is getting the source combination right as the rest of the chain is more often than not shared between both Digital and TT Setup ( at least that's how I have it setup). To get this right more often than not you need to spend a fair bit on getting the right Streamer & DAC. Its easier to obtain the same sound signature from a TT setup (with little lower fidelity ofcourse) at very nominal costs, but the amount you spend on LPs+ TT upgrades eventually might fetch you a Sonnet Morpheus too

 

[thedude]

To get an analog , warmish signature I feel the important thing in Digital is getting the source combination right as the rest of the chain is more often than not shared between both Digital and TT Setup ( at least that's how I have it setup). To get this right more often than not you need to spend a fair bit on getting the right Streamer & DAC. Its easier to obtain the same sound signature from a TT setup (with little lower fidelity ofcourse) at very nominal costs, but the amount you spend on LPs+ TT upgrades eventually might fetch you a Sonnet Morpheus too

That is exactly what I noticed working on improving my digital source…used to be a MacBook Pro. It was detailed, freakishly clean/dead quiet background, good focus, imaging etc. I wanted more!

Later got a MacMini…upgraded to DC power supply, added a good LPS, gone though though over a dozen power cables, 3 fuses, 4 DC cables, 3 sets of capacitors (LPS) to settle with the combo I liked This took a few months as I only do one change at a time and try it for few days (then reverse it).

The improvement in sonic signature is night and day…bigger/more holographic soundstage, warmer/thicker yet more delicate vocals, better slam/dynamics, sweeter top end, deeper rounder bass etc. The improvements were not just in bits and pieces, but also in terms of musicality, coherence, flow, presentation and presence.

So higher quality components, synergy between those components and cleaner power at source is a major differentiator for digital. IMO

 

[bloredude]

I feel it's down to "which medium was the music in question originally mastered for".

In the final analysis, the target medium, the ability (and preferences) of the mastering engineer are bigger factors than we care to admit. Both the medium have their strengths and weaknesses. Listen to the format where your choice of music is available in the highest fidelity.

A good vinyl and a good CD, both mastered from the same source, should both sound extremely pleasing and highly gratifying.

As we move towards higher resolution digital, whatever little there was to separate between the formats, begin to blur further. Starting 24-96 digital rips of vinyl start sounding nearly identical. By 24-192 differences blur so much, only very experienced listeners can discern the difference on very resolving setups. By the time the precision level gets to 32-384, mastered from the same source, digital becomes significantly more nuanced, resolving, relaxed while still capturing/rendering emotions better than what lies in the realm of vinyl.

For analogue lovers, there is a way to prevent forced switching between the formats (and the awkwardness associated with it) - digitize your analogue collection. It's a one time effort but a very rewarding one!

For digital lovers, it's somewhat simpler. Just buy the "HiRes remasters" of your favorite music again. Beware, some sites are merely offering repackaged tracks, which are nothing more than resampled/upsampled and digitally cleaned version of same thing from their archive. But there are sites that are offering tracks genuinely "Remastered" from the original tape. Listening to digital format remastered from original tapes is quite a revelation. It's like listening to analogue with the convenience of digital.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

But there are sites that are offering tracks genuinely "Remastered" from the original tape.

Can you please list them here for our collective benefit? Thanks.

 

[Hari Iyer]

Getting a good r2r dac and few source cable changes can go a long way in appreciating analog sound in digital medium.

My cd player has a good inbuilt 32 bit BB DAC with an top of the range butler opamp in the LP filter stage followed by a discrete buffer. I am that kind of guy who buy equipment after reading the schematic of the service manual. Hence I usually end up buying a little older equipment compared to its launch date. But it's much of an informed purchase that following a biased review.

I am not at all saying that my digital is sounding bad but I had an analogue hangover which is gone by end of day today. I am now back to normal after 2 days.

 

[Lizard King]

To get an analog , warmish signature I feel the important thing in Digital is getting the source combination right as the rest of the chain is more often than not shared between both Digital and TT Setup ( at least that's how I have it setup). To get this right more often than not you need to spend a fair bit on getting the right Streamer & DAC. Its easier to obtain the same sound signature from a TT setup (with little lower fidelity ofcourse) at very nominal costs, but the amount you spend on LPs+ TT upgrades eventually might fetch you a Sonnet Morpheus too

In other words, if you want your CD to match vinyl, or your vinyl to match your CD, you gotta pay through your nose

 

[fLUX]

In other words, if you want your CD to match vinyl, or your vinyl to match your CD, you gotta pay through your nose

Totally

 

[soundbuff]

Yes good digital is also very source dependent. With cheaper equipment it's fatiguing once you are used to better source, at least for a little while. Although even here there is a point of diminished returns. This is actually an interesting difference between cd and vinyl. A crazy good tt can make a difference in a system that's not at that crazy level. I remember as a young man listening to a fully decked out lp12 on my Cyrus one and Cyrus 780 speakers as a huge jump from the thoren td 160 sme 3009 I then own. Ofcourse I couldn't afford the lp12, not on my student scholarship and stayed with the lesser set up for many years.

 

[bloredude]

Can you please list them here for our collective benefit? Thanks.

From the top of my mind: highdeftapetransfers dot com, X L Recordings, highresaudio dot com, iTrax, 2L.no, Blue coast records, HD Tracks.

They sell stuff from versatile sources. For instance, Blue coast primarily sells freshly recorded music, recorded directly in DSD (at least that's what I read they claim). So buyer discretion is urged.

It's a great time to be a fans of Electronic music, though. Sites like Bandcamp deliver music that is hires from the ground up.