Logitech Squeezebox Duet

[rydhun]

My impressions of Squeezebox Duet, after a week of usage

I bought a Squeezebox Duet a few days back and this post captures a few of my observations over the last 1 week of using it, and learning from various internet forums. Disclaimer: These are my personal observations though, arising from my own first hand experience, your mileage may vary.

Thanks to heliumflight & santhol2 for patiently answering my pre-purchase queries over PM.

The need:
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After Worldspace went out of business, I was looking for a standalone device that would allow me to explore different genres of music. Our usage with Wordspace was around 12 hours a day. FM stations didn't meet the need since they play mostly popular music and have too many commercial breaks. I did try options like using the browser on Nintendo Wii to play Internet radio but the experience was not satisfactory, there were quite frequent breakages & Out of memory errors.

Other candidates considered (Pre-purchase):
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1. SB Classic Squeezebox Classic
Pros:

• Nice display
• Good DAC
• Analog & Digital Outs
• Available in India

Cons:

• Remote is IR
• Logitech US site Logitech Squeezebox Product Overview doesn't show it in list of products so looks like it's getting phased out by new new model Touch

2. SB Touch Logitech Squeezebox Touch
Pros:

• Has all benefits of Classic plus Touch screen

Cons:

• Remote is IR
• My hands are not so compatible with Touch devices
• Not available in India, so you lose warranty

3. Myine IR001 WiFi internet Radio Amazon.com: Myine Electronics IR001 WiFi Internet Radio Adaptor: Electronics
Pros:

• Cheaper
• Decent reviews

Cons:

• UI not that good
• SB Radio can be had in a similar price band
• Not available in India, so you lose warranty

4. Pre-purchase analysis for the Squeezebox Duet http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com/products/squeezebox-duet.html:
Pros:

• Wireless controller, doesn't require line of sight
• Works with multiple SB devices
• Rich Controller UI

Cons:

• Wish the Receiver had a display
• Not available in India, so you lose warranty

Sourcing, Shipping & Pricing:
- - -
Amazon/JR->Borderlinx->Me
$330 (Base price)+$10(US shipping)->$100(International shipping, Customs duties, India VAT)->$440 (Total price)
3 days (local US shipping)->5 days(international shipping)->8 days(end to end)

In-the-Box:
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1. SB Receiver: smallish box with a single Wireless-logo LED on the front which lights up in different colors depending on status. Back has analog & Digital outputs, an ethernet port, and a 9V power input.
2. Controller: this is a LCD screen remote that can control multiple receivers
3. 9V Adapter for the Receiver: this is universal voltage (100-240V, 50-60Hz), and comes with a thin slide-in plate for US-style plug that snaps into the adapter. Would assume that if you buy a unit in India, it would come with a India-plug slide-in plate.
4. Charging cradle for the Controller: this is also universal voltage (100-240V, 50-60Hz), and also comes with a thin slide-in plate for US-style plug that snaps into the adapter.
5. Gold plated analog stereo cable
6. Headphone (female) to Stereo Analog (male) cable: also gold plated, can be used for connecting headphones
7. Lithium-ion battery for controller
8. Quick start guide
9. Some promotional leaflets from Rhapsody & Last.fm

Note: I would've liked a printed User manual & software CD in the box. Quick Start guide mentions the software & manual can be downloaded from the Logitech website

Set-up:
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Base setup: Norge 1000 Gold Amplifier, Wharfedale 9.5, Netgear WGR614 v4 WiFi router, Airtel 4Mbps connection, Dell Inspiron running Windows XP, Kaspersky Internet Security 2010

1. Connect Receiver to Amplifier using the Analog cable
2. Insert battery into Controller, and power it on.
3. I use MAC Address-based Access Control List (ACL) on my router so I had to first disable it to enable the devices to come onboard.
4. On Controller, choose the WiFi network to connect to.
5. On Controller, list of SB devices on network is displayed. The receiver is displayed with last 8 digits of Mac address. This could be useful if you have multiple SB devices.
6. Signup for an account on mysqueezebox.com. Punch in the userid & password created online, on the Controller. Refresh the page on computer and it immediately shows details of your receiver.
   --At this point, you start to see pre-programmed menus on your controller and you can play internet radio stations
7. Download & install Squeezebox Server on the machine. I did need to whitelist the server application in my Antivirus while installing it; it was being tagged as a High risk application probably because it was opening server ports. It builds its directory from commonly used music locations and iTunes. From controller, attempt to connect to Squeezebox server, it discovers your machine and you can connect to it. Once you're connected, you can see iPod-style menus to browse and play your music collection, with a touch scroller.
8. Add MAC addresses to ACL list and re-enable ACLs on WiFi router.

Note: You MUST do at least one of #6 or #7 to be able to use the device. I'll explain why in the next section.

High-level Architecture:
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Version: Firmware version 7.5.0 r8673 (mentioned as some things could change with upgrades)

Now, if I'm a user, would I really need to know the architecture of the product? Not really. But I think with this device, it's important to understand a high-level picture of how it works, otherwise you could get frustrated.

There are 4 pieces to the complete Squeezebox experience:
A. Hardware & Software that decodes streams, does the conversion to analog and is hooked up to your amplifier.
B. A hardware & software unit that presents you a choice of pre-programmed streams, and instructs (A) to play a stream
C. A server that serves something. This something is not just music content, but surprise surprise ... also the actual menus that you see on B. Some presets are also stored on the server (example: Favorites). The server also lets you monitor and control playback (near) real-time*
D. The actual end server serving music content

*You can switch channels while sitting in office & freak out your wife

Incase of SB Duet:
A is the receiver
B is the Controller
C is Squeezebox Server running on your computer OR Mysqueezebox.com server on the internet
D is Squeezebox server running on your computer when playing content on your PC, and an independent server if playing an internet stream (Example: if you're playing BBC Asia stream, it would be served by BBC server)

In case of Classic, the display unit would serve as both A & B, and IR remote will help you navigate menus and make choices

The key interface points in the architecture:
A<->C<->B When content is chosen for playing
B<->C & A<->C Control data for monitoring & web-based control
A<->D Music stream

Some very Important points:

1. Either one of the server IS required to use the Duet. If you want to play internet radio, and the internet server happens to be busy, you will not be able to run. At this point, you can bring up the server on your computer, connect to it and play Internet radio OR Local content.
2. The internet server being unavailable is NOT a theoretical scenario. There are 3 Mysqueezebox server farms in the world: one in California US, another in Virginia US and the third one in Germany. The two US servers service US devices, and the Germany server services the whole of Europe, Asia, Australia etc. The server you connect to is chosen based on your IP, and though the menu provides a way to switch the choice if you know the IPs, it doesn't work. The load on the Germany server has been increasing since the last few months (Ref: Latest News on Connectivity Issues with MySqueezebox.com, Radio, and Duet - Squeezebox : Community : Forums and New servers being added to European MySqueezebox.com Datacenter 11-12 February 2010 - Squeezebox : Community : Forums) causing capacity issues, and it's often unreachable during Europe busy hours and weekends. From my personal experience, I've been unable to connect to the server 3 out of the 6 days I've been using the Duet. So, I had to start my computer and use my local server in order to use the Duet. Depending on how you look at it, you can either see this as a severe limitation, or be grateful that the Local server workaround exists. Considering that the Sea link issue (Be Prepared for Slow Internet Connection in India for the next few days [Undersea Cable Repair]) also exists right now, I'm waiting for it to be fixed before I can be sure that mysqueezebox server is ACTUALLY overloaded
3. If B<->C/A<->C connection above is lost due to server becoming unavailable, the playback doesn't get disrupted, but you'll have to reconnect to a server if you attempt to change the channel, or navigate through the menus, or even change the volume
   

Performance, more observations & nuances:
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1. Since menus can be served by two different servers, one of which is online & another one local (on your computer), the Controller menu contents look a little different between the two. I've not been able to pinpoint what is different though, apart from #2. There is a third menu view when you're not connected to any server.
2. Since Favorites are maintained on the server you're using, you could end up having one set of favorites on the internet server, and another one on your local server. This could cause some confusion till you understand all of it and go ... Aha! There is a sync option available on Local server configuration, but I've not used it and frankly, I don't intend to.
3. The default configuration on the Controller is "Screen always ON", and some feedback/click sounds on navigation and selection. With these settings, the controller battery full-charge runs out in 1-2 hours and you have to keep charging it. But changing some screen settings & disabling click sounds, I was able to cross 24 hours on a full charge.
4. Controller does support WEP-key based WiFi networks
5. So far, I've not observed the sluggish wake-up & menu navigation issues that have been mentioned in Amazon reviews. But, knowing that menus are served by the server, I think it could've been related to server issues. I do see on their forums that there were some server issues reported and later fixed in Jan/Feb 2010. For me, it either connects and works flawlessly, or doesn't connect at all/drops server connection (at which point I have to start my local server)
6. The audio quality is great for 128kbps stations, for lower bitrates there's quite a lot of jitter. The audio quality is noticeably clearer than Worldspace, when playing 128kbps streams
7. There are loads of internet radio stations pre-programmed and can be browsed by Genre, Popularity, Geographical location etc. The BBC music stations are also pre-programmed. Custom URLs can be added to Favorites menu, incase a stream isn't there in the Menus.
8. There are options to search content by providing search text.
9. For subscribers of dedicated sites like live365 etc., there are options to add the site plugin as an App. This creates a separate submenu for the site inside "My Apps" and provides more specialized menus, site presets and support for premium services. I think (not sure) live365 also support Artist search. There are plugins available for live365, mediafly, facebook etc.
10. There is a bug in the current firmware due to which the "Add to Favorites" option doesn't appear in the context menu while playing an internet radio station. However, there is a workaround available.
11. There is no breakage for most stations, which I think can be attributed to the buffering in SB. There are some internet problems going on due to the SEA-ME-WE 4 issue (Be Prepared for Slow Internet Connection in India for the next few days [Undersea Cable Repair]). Internet browsing is affected for me but SB still plays fine.
12. Seconds to buffer before playback is configurable (3 to 30 secs), you can set this higher if you experience stutter
13. While playing internet radio, Song & Artist info is displayed, so you can discover & buy new music
14. Internet usage is a few hundred MBs (varied between 100 and 350 for me) per day, if you play for 7-12 hours a day.

Functionality I haven't explored yet:

1. Using digital out on Receiver
2. Playing local content on PC (played 1-2 MP3, but not thoroughly tested)
3. Alarms

To summarize:

Post-purchase analysis for the Squeezebox Duet:
- - -
Pros:

• Wireless controller, doesn't require line of sight
• Works with multiple SB devices
• Rich Controller UI
• Comes pre-programmed with a nice range of stations
• Delightful experience if Mysqueezebox server is available
• Receiver is really compact
• Setup is a breeze
• Good internet radio performance

Cons:

• Wish the Receiver had a display
• Not available in India, so you lose warranty
• Dependency on mysqueezebox server availability
• Online server availability is unreliable, and the local server is required in that case, so it technically doesn't remain a standalone device
• Li-ion battery runs out fast with screen always-on
• Two sets of menus and favorites are confusing

Based on my experience, I would rate the Duet a 7 on 10. If the mysqueezebox.com connectivity issues get resolved, I would rate it 9 on 10 (I hate to switch on my computer for playing internet radio). I hope this review helps those who're considering Squeezebox, in making an informed choice.

There are lots of pictures around, but I'm attaching some I clicked.

Cheers!

 

[santhosh]

Very well written Rydhun, you have covered everything and seemed to have explored all the features. Thanks for sharing, am sure others who are sitting on the fence can decide on your review. From your review, there were many learnings for me inspite of being a SB Duet owner for the last one month. Apart from the initial curiousity, I have not had the time to listen\expore Internet Radio yet, have just been using it to listen to FLAC stored on my NAS.

*Rates the review full marks *

 

[alcy]

... ... ...

 

[alcy]

Great review. Haven't read such an exhaustive review of any product of late. It would be just great if people could review like this other equipment as well !

 

[captrajesh]

Hi Rydhun,

Very well written dude. Keep it up.

 

[thevortex]

That is a very well written review, Rydhun! Do keep it up. I think this could be very useful for a lot of members here.

 

[rydhun]

Thanks everyone for reading, and the appreciation.

The images didn't go through in the original post, so adding now.

Cheers!

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The remote has a lovely high-gloss finish, which, fresh out of the box, is very pleasing indeed. I doubt that anyone actually expects it to last, and, of course, it doesn't . Matt plastic finishes may not be so nice at first, but at least they last.

The charging base for the remote is neat. The latest firmware gives a bee-beep when put to charge, which is an improvement on the silence of the previous version.

 

[svenkateshsmart]

Hi,

Few people are very meticulous in what they do, you are one of them. That is a very detailed post, this led me to do a 2-hour search-and-read on this item.

Cheers!

 

[ajay124]

I am currently using a Cyrus 8 vs 2 amp and Dynaudio Audience 122 speakers hooked upto an iMac to listen to live 365/itunes/flacs.Looking for a good Dac to improve the sound quality.For me a hand held controller is not very important.My only priority is to get the best sound possible.I would appreciate comparisons of SB Duet with Sonos zone players especially the 120 which has a built in 55WPC/8 Ohms amp.Also the CA Dacmagic,Beresford ,Chordette Gem or any other reasonably priced Dac.

 

[gopi]

Akay,
Why not try Cyrus's own DAC. Infact if you move up their amp chain you can get amplifier with DAC in built in it.

 

[sidvee]

I would be very interested in the Audio Quality of the web radio stations. Some of the ones that I listen to using my computer speakers are severly compressed (of-course my comp. spkrs are some el-cheapo logitechs) that IMO make them unlistenable, but would appreciate comments on users who have used a outboard DAC. I am specifically looking for the sound quality say when compared to a Rs. 15,000 - 20,000 cd player.
cheers
Sid

 

[santhosh]

The onboard DAC in the Logitech Squeezebox Duet is a Wolfson and is very good by itself. Two weeks ago Gobble, cmsajith and I tried a A/B test by connecting the digital optical out from my SB Duet to a Beresford Caiman. We concluded that the onboard DAC itself was doing a good job and there was no need to invest in a sub 20k INR DAC. Just FYI, we were playing FLAC off a NAS wirelessly.

To answer your specific question about a 15 to 20k CD player, the SQ is similar. I can comment on my Marantz CD63SE which I guess being old technology is roughly equivalent(?) to the 15 to 20k CD players today. In a comparison, I like the highs on my CD63SE better and it beats the SB Duet in overall SQ but only by a narrow margin.

About SQ of Web Radio, it is much better than I expected. It is much much better than the Worldspace I had.

 

[sidvee]

The onboard DAC in the Logitech Squeezebox Duet is a Wolfson and is very good by itself. Two weeks ago Gobble, cmsajith and I tried a A/B test by connecting the digital optical out from my SB Duet to a Beresford Caiman. We concluded that the onboard DAC itself was doing a good job and there was no need to invest in a sub 20k INR DAC. Just FYI, we were playing FLAC off a NAS wirelessly.

To answer your specific question about a 15 to 20k CD player, the SQ is similar. I can comment on my Marantz CD63SE which I guess being old technology is roughly equivalent(?) to the 15 to 20k CD players today. In a comparison, I like the highs on my CD63SE better and it beats the SB Duet in overall SQ but only by a narrow margin.

About SQ of Web Radio, it is much better than I expected. It is much much better than the Worldspace I had.

Thanks Santosh - that is good news indeed! I am going to plan to get one as the whole world of internet radio is just going to open up.
Cheers
Sid

 

[heliumflight]

Hi Rydhun,

Truly impressive but what was even better was your guidance to people like me who are eagerly waiting to make this purchase.

Please correct me you are presently facing connectivity issues mysqueezebox.com due to some Undersea Cable Repair hence you rate this product 7/10

--
helium
Amp: Lyrita SET 2A3
Speakers: Vintage B&W DM4

 

[santhosh]

Hi Rydhun,

Truly impressive but what was even better was your guidance to people like me who are eagerly waiting to make this purchase.

Please correct me you are presently facing connectivity issues mysqueezebox.com due to some Undersea Cable Repair hence you rate this product 7/10

--
helium
Amp: Lyrita SET 2A3
Speakers: Vintage B&W DM4

HF, what undersea cable repair are you speaking about? If Internet works in your home, the Internet radio on SB Duet should work. For listening to your library, you don't even need Internet, just a LAN should suffice.

Rydhun is facing connectivity issues while connecting to mysqueezebox.com directly from the SB Duet when his PC\Laptop (running the squeezecenter service) is switched off. If the PC/Laptop is turned on, things work fine. In my case, I don't mind the laptop being on as it consumes very little power (less than 10W with screen turned off).

 

[GeorgeO]

On MY SB Classic I have no problem whatsoever conecting to the net( via Squeeze Network) with the computer off.

George

 

[santhosh]

On MY SB Classic I have no problem whatsoever conecting to the net( via Squeeze Network) with the computer off.

George

Great to know that George. In your case your Squeezecenter service is running on your NetGear ReadyNAS. Does the radio work when your NAS is turned off?

In my case, I don't mind the laptop being on as it consumes very little power (less than 10W with screen turned off).

BTW, this is just an interim arrangement until eTrayz allows SqueezeCenter to be installed. This is expected in the next firmware of eTrayz. Currently, it can run iTunes but not SqueezeCenter.

 

[GeorgeO]

Santosh

Yes it does. The NAs is programmed to start up at 6.15 and shut down at 111PM, but therte have been a few rare ocassions when I got up around 5AM and listed to NPR, so I know it owrsk ..

George

Here's a link an interesting review of the SB Touch:

Squeezebox Touch

 

[santhosh]

Santosh

Yes it does. The NAs is programmed to start up at 6.15 and shut down at 111PM, but therte have been a few rare ocassions when I got up around 5AM and listed to NPR, so I know it owrsk ..

George

I will try this out tonight.

Here's a link an interesting review of the SB Touch:

Squeezebox Touch

Thanks again George for introducing me to this product. I am smitten by this Squeezebox thingy and its fantastic family of products. To utilise my Home Network's investment optimally, I plan to invest a little more and add atleast one more SB - a Squeezbox Touch or a Boom.

Both are fantastic products and in all likelihood, it will be Boom first. The SQ on the boom with its inbuilt speakers is supposedly very good. It is available for just 140$ in Ebay Australia. Can't find anyone willing to lug it for me inspite of working for an Australian company:sad:. Did not check with Sunil J (common friend of George and me) since you mentioned even he is getting a SB. Plan is to install this under the Plasma in my bedroom so it performs multiple duties including Network Audio/Internet Radio Player, Alarm Clock and also as a Soundbar for my TV. Since the Boom also has a sub-woofer out, I can have 2.1 which is more than enough for watching movies that don't need a Home Theater experience.