Managing huge digital Music-Collections and digital Music Files

[andi10]

Hello to all Friends of Digital Music Formats and collectors!

I want to start a discussion about "Managing huge Music collections" in digital formats. I mean, maybe you have some same experiences then me when it comes to

1. searching through the collection,
2. finding Tracks,
3. Choosing Music by Genre
4. Collecting different Formats (MP3/FLAC/WAV/.............)

But not only from Format Side, i also want to discuss, how you play that at your Amp, like

1. Direct from PC
2. Through DAC
3. By Streamer
4. By tablet

and next Topic will be, which software you use for

1. Playback
2. managing ID3 Tags
3. Sorting and adding information

coming to the next Topic which could be, how you store your Files, maybe

1. on your local Drive on the PC or Laptop
2. on an external drive
3. on an Network Drive
4. on an NAS using mirrored drives....

It should be an open discussion, how you manage and doing so giving other FM's ideas to improve or even how to start a good collection, as i came to know, the better you set your collection from the beginning, the easier it will be when the thing gets really big, (by 100GB MP3 or even 10 times this size

!!!!! What i also need to say.... Whatever software or Product i tell here in this discussion, i am not connected to any of this companies and i do not recommend anything... i just want to share my experiences, and what became for me feasable and useful by the time..... !!!!!

So, first of all,
My Setup and Handling

i have approximately 140GB on MP3 and approx. same size on FLAC files...
Recently i am focussing more on FLAC as the quality of my Hardware increased, i dont want to pull it down by low Quality basics....

Generally Said, my Folderstructure looks like following:

1. Folder: Artist Name 1
1.1 UnderFolder: Album Name 1
1.2 UnderFolder: Album Name 2
2. Folder: Artist Name 2
2.1 UnderFolder Album Name 1
2.2 UnderFolder Album Name 2

Various Artist Cd's are kept in an Folder Called "VA". Inside you find Folders Named by the CD Name....

So far i have only FLAC and MP3 files and i have them divided in 2 Folders one called "HD" and on called "MP3"
Not sure if this is a good idea, as i need to manage something like 2 Collections.. I am considering to merge them....

My Manipulation Software,
means the Software where i am used to change and add information to my Digital Musicfiles, like ID3 Tags:

MediaMonkey

What i am Doing is, i make sure, i have proper information on

1. Tracknumber
2. Trackname (Title)
3. Artist
4. Albumname
5. Genre (how do you categorize or do you categorize at all???)

MediaMonkey gives here very good oportunities to batchhandling and changing information on hundrets of files in one shot.
On more popular Albums it gives also the possibility to "Tag from Internet" which means it connects to the net and gives ID3 Tags more or less accurate... As said on popular Albums very useful, if you have a very wide taste on music like me, it would fit on maybe 20% of your files.
Its also very useful to create Playlists (m3u).

What do you use there??? any suggestions??

My Storage
First i was used to store everything local on my pc, but recently i store my files on a WD MyBook Networkstorage (DLNA and Twonkey media function), which works pretty well, even its a bit slow by moving large amounts of data, as it looks, there is restricted speed cause of the Network (Wireless). Which doesnt influence the playback, i only talk about transport from local to networkdrive.

Recently i ordered a Network NAS with DLNA function and also RAID to keep the collection safe ( i really spent too much time for sorting and collecting to loose it by any HD Crash

Maybe someone already established some cloudsolution for big collections and do not store the files at home anymore????

My Source
At the beginning i could not find any proper source and putting my PC to the Amp was not possible due to distance. So, very Desperately i was connecting my Google Nexus 7 via headphone jack to my Amp, cause it was possible to connect to the Networkdrive

Actually i am using an Cambridge Stream Magic 6, which was a very good choice, as the reproduction quality is very good and it connects without any fault to my network drive.. Internet radio is also wothout any fail.... After 4 weeks of using, i can only say: It Just Works..... Very Happy.....

My Control of the Source
As we know, every Network Streamer comes woth his own Software either for Android, for Ipad or both.. ALso the Cambridge..
I tried it for android... i was not happy... i never used it since then...
you can remote by tablet, or directly on the device.... i prefer tablet and their own software is not meeting my expectations.. i would not say its bad, i just expect more from a unit in this pricelevel so i went on search for something better...
I downloaded many "DLNA/UPNP Music Software" for Android and after 2 weeks of trial and error i found "BubbleUPNP"
All this software gives you the possibility to select the source (local, Network.....) and also the renderer (local, any networkplayer like the cambridge....)
This software (BubbleUpnp) is giving me more or less what i am searching for

1. easy travel through my folderstructure
2. easy finding of my m3u Playlists
3. Nice layout of the "playlists", "Now Playing" Screen, proper Library browsing

In this Point im still not satisfied as i am expecting much more possibilities for settings which can adjust the software to the users needs, but i fully understand, that softwarecompanies must adjust to the normal user which dont want to adjust and set every small detail and the other freaks.. so tehy cannot fit to all needs.....
For example, when i look inside the Album folder, which gives me the list of FIles inside the Folder, i want to see the Genre as well, (Actually it gives the Artist, the Album name and the Trackname) as i cannot remeber everything i was putting there, so having the genre info helps me to remind and do the right choice......

For the beginning, i think this is enough information....

Please share your experiences, and participate to make our digital Lifes easier :yahoo:

Kind regards
Andy

 

[Staxxx]

I spend a lot of time indexing and cleaning up the filing of my music. Quite often the metadata is pretty messed up when I rip CDs. Since there is a lot of music (in WAV) I only focus on my Western Classical music, which is my usual listening fare. The problem is once you get started it is almost impossible to change later - so think about your filing nomenclature very carefully before starting.
I have been in talks with a couple of search designers to custom build a search engine that will trawl through the collection in various ways to root out the requisite track. Will update as that progresses.
Currently the music is on external HDDs and backed up on a NAS and some spare drives. The classical music is about 17 Tbs now and the jazz and other music is on some other 3 Tb drives. This is more than usual because of the format as well, but I prefer Wav and Wav64 and use dbPoweramp to convert other formats to it.

 

[Shivam]

My playback chain is -
NAS > Wifi Network > Steamer > ...
Control is using the streamer's app on ipad. Files are mostly flac and some wav.

Folder structure -
1 Classical
1.1 Early Music
1.1.1 composers
1.2 Baroque
1.2.1 composers
1.3 Classical .....

2 English Music
2.1 Various genres (2.1 Country , 2.2 Blues, 2.3 Jazz etc...)
2.1.1 Artist A
2.1.2 Artist B ....

3 Indian Classical

4 Hindi

5, 6, 7 ...


I have used numbers to show the folder structure (inspired by the original post).

 

[Audio_Freek]

The classical music is about 17 Tbs now and the jazz and other music is on some other 3 Tb drives. .

:licklips: 17TB of Classic Music?

OMG this is Not Collection,Its a Library.

So Its only English Classic? could you explore on with some info Please.
Am getting a 3D view about your collection Now..hyeah:

 

[andi10]

To have the folderstructure according to the genre is also a very interesting approach. It gives you the possibility, what Id3 tags genre input dont give, the possibility to make subcategories in genre:

1. Rock
1.1 Hardrock
1.2 Progressive Rock
1.3 Alternative Rock
And so on, and so on .

NOT possible with Id3 tags, as per my knowledge ..

But how do you handle than musik which fits in 2 or more different kathegories?

I have musik, which fits pretty well in "worldmusik" as well as in "jazz" and the same band i would do in "Alternative Electronic".

I like the way, the website allmusic dot com is categorizing. They extended their genre differensation into Genre, for example "rock" and further in Style, for example "hardrock".
I like this idea with "Style"

But a real solution i dont have is someone working with playlists? Whats the benefit of using playlists i mean i know whats a playlist, but why using that and not the folderstructure?

Greetz
Andy

Ps: to all Worldmusic, jazz, folkrock fans: i am actually at the moment listening to "DIRTMUSIC" and their Album "TROUBLES" . Check it out and listen loud hyeah:

 

[Staxxx]

Yes, Western Classical. Will PM details.

 

[shibashis]

Andi, a very detailed and informative post to start the thread, congratulations on that. Also I appreciate the merits of this thread, with digital music gathering more and more acceptance and fast becoming the preferred medium for lots the discussions in this thread I am sure will be appreciated by many.

My collection consists mostly of 320 Kbps mp3 and some lossless music in WAV and FLAC. I am expanding my CD collection slowly, with a few additions each month, but I do not have a CD player (other than on my laptop and desktop) and so prefer to rip them in FLAC. My primary source (the player) is my iPod touch 32GB. I store most of my music on my laptop but do not play from there. The output of the iPod is cleaner more detailed and more 'fulsome' if that makes sense. The iPod has a much better DAC than my Dell Inspiron I believe. Apple however does not care for FLAC, so that is played by a Cowon V5 HD pmp. Cowon outsmarts the iPod by a fair bit in terms of audio quality.

In terms of backup, my iPod has a great share of my collection in it, so that can act as a backup in dire situations (help me God if such a situation ever occurs...). Then all of the ever increasing collection is backed up on a Seagate 1 TB external drive, some on the desktop HDD as well. I am planning to get another external HDD purely for backup purpose, with the stories of hard drives crashing I get more and more fearful by the day.

I have my Airport Express connected to one of the inputs on the amplifier, so sometimes I stream music with the iPod touch via the Airport to the amp. The sound quality this way is slightly superior to a wired connection from the iPod's headphone out to the 'Line In' of the amplifier.

To rip CDs I use either dbpoweramp or iTunes or in some cases Format Factory. iTunes handles the job of ID3 tags quite well I feel, and I can edit it if required. One of the advantages of dbpoweramp is that if you install it you can edit the tags on the file directly from the 'properties' section in Windows, that comes in quite handy as well.
Since I do not play from my laptop, at the moment I have not bothered that much about player softwares. iTunes is there kind of by default and so is VLC for videos and so on. I might get a USB DAC at some point, will likely use Foobar then.

 

[jsmithe]

Good post andi10.

I am with you on the utility of phone/tablet apps to control media playback in the absence of URC's with screens.

I spent an evening with my Nexus 7 trying to get various DLNA controller apps (Skifta, BubbleUPNP, MediaHome) to play Audio/Video/Photos but the only media, thus far, that I have been able to consume via DLNA controlled from the Nexus 7 is JPG's from a DLNA server on a PC to my TV.

A/V (FLAC, MP4, MKV, Xvid AVI etc.) via DLNA controlled from the Nexus 7 just fail with rather unhelpful error messages which I am now attempting to track down to try and find a solution.

Thus far it has been rather disappointing, but it's just an evening's effort, so not giving up yet.

 

[andi10]

Good post andi10.

I am with you on the utility of phone/tablet apps to control media playback in the absence of URC's with screens.

I spent an evening with my Nexus 7 trying to get various DLNA controller apps (Skifta, BubbleUPNP, MediaHome) to play Audio/Video/Photos...

Actually, i cannot say anything about Movies or Pictures to be displayed on the TV, i think it depends highly on the TV make and whats the possibility of that particular Brand, i only tried so far with Music files. Specially BubbleUpnp is only for Music?? Not Sure....

So not sure what you really want to get?... do you mean something like the apple tv and the airply function, where you play any content on the IPad and you can transfer it to the Apple tv device to show on the TV???
This for sure needs to be differently handled if you want to have Android as a working device (even i think there are apps which can transfer content from Android to the Apple tv device, but therefore you need the Apple TV device, which i do not recommend, as per my personal view)

What i can recommend, if it comes to connectivity is, to run TWONKY Media Software on the NAS (In my case the WDMyBook). No settings, no nothing, it just works.....

- Streamer (Cambridge) connects without any Settings or searching, just choose "UPNP Servers" in the Menu and Twonky Server always appears.
- BubbleUpnp on the Nexus 7, Just go to "Devices" Twonky always shows up without fail..
- On my Laptop, i just look at "Computer" and under the normal Harddrives, the Twonky mediaserver is always there and reachable.
- Even my Samsung TV (with USB Networkcard) connects without any issue which was really more than a surprise) and plays all movies from there without any problems, ahhh yes, also all pictures which are stored on the NAS are displayed on the tv via Twonky Media Server....

But the Samsung Tv also recognizes the Media Server made by Windows and displays the content from the pc on the TV....

Kind regards...
Andy

 

[jsmithe]

Actually, i cannot say anything about Movies or Pictures to be displayed on the TV, i think it depends highly on the TV make and whats the possibility of that particular Brand, i only tried so far with Music files. Specially BubbleUpnp is only for Music?? Not Sure....

Not sure either, but I think BubbleUPNP will also render video from a NAS to a TV. I've not been able to render audio either so far, but since you have been able to get it to render that holds out hope that I may be able to get it going too with some work.

So not sure what you really want to get?

In short, what I am trying to do is to use the N7 as a glorified wireless remote with a nice screen.

... do you mean something like the apple tv and the airply function, where you play any content on the IPad and you can transfer it to the Apple tv device to show on the TV???
This for sure needs to be differently handled if you want to have Android as a working device (even i think there are apps which can transfer content
from Android to the Apple tv device, but therefore you need the Apple TV device, which i do not recommend, as per my personal view)

I'm not too familiar with the Apple ecosystem(not a fan of the walled garden either) but what I want to do is to be able to see the DLNA server running on a PC/NAS on the N7, select the media on the N7 and have it rendered on the TV but not on the N7. At the moment for me that works with JPG files though they display both on the N7 and TV. Audio,video are no go as yet.

Tracking down the error thrown by the Skifta DLNA app I find that it has something to do with filetypes as recognized natively by the Android device. Some posts indicate that installing the VLC/MX player/Rockplayer apps. on the Android device enabled it to play video's that refused to play earlier. Will try this and also will post those links once I find them again.

What i can recommend, if it comes to connectivity is, to run TWONKY Media Software on the NAS (In my case the WDMyBook). No settings, no nothing, it just works.....

- Streamer (Cambridge) connects without any Settings or searching, just choose "UPNP Servers" in the Menu and Twonky Server always appears.
- BubbleUpnp on the Nexus 7, Just go to "Devices" Twonky always shows up without fail..
- On my Laptop, i just look at "Computer" and under the normal Harddrives, the Twonky mediaserver is always there and reachable.
- Even my Samsung TV (with USB Networkcard) connects without any issue which was really more than a surprise) and plays all movies from there without any problems, ahhh yes, also all pictures which are stored on the NAS are displayed on the tv via Twonky Media Server....

But the Samsung Tv also recognizes the Media Server made by Windows and displays the content from the pc on the TV....

Kind regards...
Andy

I am able to have my BDP and TV access the various DLNA servers I tried (Homestream, MinimServer, PS3MediaServer, Serviio, Plex, Kooraroo etc.) and can stream audio to the BDP, TV, video/audio/photos to the TV without a problem by selecting off the display on the TV screen. Throwing the N7 into the mix, messes up something or perhaps I am not doing something right yet.

I'd rather not have the TV on every time I DLNA stream from PC to the BDP and was hoping the N7 will function as a nice big colourful remote via the DLNA apps. Video redirection via the N7 would be a nice to have, but that I can do without.

Haven't tried Twonky yet, but will give it a shot to see if that makes a difference in the mix. I've still got my fingers crossed for a shot at making this work over the weekend.

 

[bhagwan]

I do not know if I should post here;
I find this entire thing rather simple.
Just get J River.
Install it.
Ask it to search your HDD's for music.
It will classify it all by different genres etc.
It will Tag the songs for you.
Get the CD Cover etc.
All this is 'automatic'
Set the command in the night & within 12 hours [generally] it should get done. i.e. If you are under 4 TB of Music.
Avoid MP3 in any form.
Avoid Flac
Try to stick to Wave
Use dB Power Amp to Rip in Accurate Rip i.e.
Set the output 'as suits your ears'
Take Digital Out Via USB or Via Sound Card to your DAC & enjoy your music.
This software is good.
Does all for you.
Download the free version & get all your music sorts & then switch to foobar [cause it is free] if you do not want to pay for J River.

 

[andi10]

I do not know if I should post here

Hello hello,

Yes you should, actually, im happy about every experience which all of you made, thats the reason for making such posts, to share our experiences .

I will have a look On this software, which sounds pretty interesting .

I like the "Autotag by internet" function of the mediamonkey. It gets all the tags including cover from the internet and tags after your confirmatiom automatically. Umfortunately without genre, but genre is also something individual. What is for me hardrock can be for you rock.

You write GO FOR WAV ..

Which leads me to another question . HOW YOU CHOOSE YOUR FAVOURITE FILEFORMAT?

Is there any advantage using wav instead of flac? Why not taking only 320mp3?

The better quality my hardware got, the more i was focussing on flac to feed my monster with proper food

 

[bhagwan]

Hello hello,

You write GO FOR WAV ..

Which leads me to another question . HOW YOU CHOOSE YOUR FAVOURITE FILEFORMAT?

Is there any advantage using wav instead of flac? Why not taking only 320mp3?

Wave sounds the BEST !
100 % un-compressed.
Everything else is a compromise.
I can 'hear' the difference' on my set up.
So I am in the process of changing all Flac to Wave - Re Rip all CD's [trust me it is a mad & long process] !

MP3 is only good for Phone & I Pod [even there I prefer Apple Lossless] BEST is to use Wave everywhere...

 

[Staxxx]

I am also a big advocate for WAV over other formats. I feel too I can hear the difference (although I would definitely not be able to identify it in a blind test) when I hear a FLAC/APE file, particularly when it has gone through a lot of compression and decompression. But perhaps it is psychoacoustics....who knows.
But the main reason I would advocate, as Bhagwan does, to go for WAV is that one day in the future when you want to appreciate a better sound quality than 320 or any other compressed medium, you will not be in a situation where you would have to re-rip your music. Believe me that is a nightmare! Best to rip in the best quality you can and store it...you never know when you may need it.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

My file management is simple - visit Bhagwan regularly.

 

[captrajesh]

Good thread for people who want to go digital. I'm still the old fashioned guy who likes to spin his discs. No pun intended. But having seenour mod GeorgeO's setup where he stores all his music on a NAS/HTPC (Not sure) and streams audio through out the house via the wifi router. In the hall, he plays it via the Logitech touch (I think) I find the convenience of having all your music in your finger tips amazing.

Having said that, we have done some DACs comparison in my setup sometime back (about two weeks ago. Not finding time to write a review ) where a few forum members were also present. For 16/44 audio, the SQ of the same tracks ripped from the same CD from PC and CDP fed to the same Acoustic Portrait NOS DAC or for that matter, even other DACs is not the same. The PC audio is no match to the CDP audio. However the equation changes when one gets to the higher bandwidth. Even the CDP is no match to the SQ of hi res 96/192 from the PC. This is what we all felt unanimously even in blind testing. (My amp has multiple inputs with all the DACs and the CDP were connected and source could be selected at will)

As far as software is concerned, the biggest convenience according to me would be to be able to retrieve the tracks from the same database under different heads like Artist, Group, Title, Genre and Custom heads like Mood etc.

For example, I should be able to retrieve 'Brothers in Arms' tracks under the following heads i.e. it should show up all of the following heads:

1. Artist: Mark Knopfler
2. Group: Dire Straits
3. Title: Sultans of Swing
4. Genre: Soft Rock
5. Mood: Critical Listening (just an example)

Otherwise it becomes difficult if not impossible to search whatever you are looking for.

 

[bhagwan]

Having said that, we have done some DACs comparison in my setup sometime back (about two weeks ago. Not finding time to write a review ) where a few forum members were also present. For 16/44 audio, the SQ of the same tracks ripped from the same CD from PC and CDP fed to the same Acoustic Portrait NOS DAC or for that matter, even other DACs is not the same. The PC audio is no match to the CDP audio. However the equation changes when one gets to the higher bandwidth. Even the CDP is no match to the SQ of hi res 96/192 from the PC. This is what we all felt unanimously even in blind testing.

Sir,
Most interesting observation;
This is 100 % opposite of what I have observed @ my end.
Incidentally, I used to always have 2 CD Players with me @ home.
Just to get different flavours in my set up.
Now for the past 4 years I do not own a CD Player.
Why ?
The Computer is way [far] better] !
How I wish you could come home & I could make you listen & realise what I was trying to say.
It is all about the Computer Set up & nothing else...simple.
BTW - 16/44.1 ripped on dB Power Amp - sounds the best to me - even better than 24/192 etc. I cannot play dsd @ home - my dac is capped @ 24/192 [I never purchased the DXD Module] !

 

[captrajesh]

The Computer is way [far] better]

Our experience is only in my modest set up ; Marantz CDP, Acoustic Portrait NOS DAC, Dared VP845 and Cadence Aristas. We also tried with a couple of other DACs but not of the pedigree of DCS Scarlatti.

It is quite possible that things could get different in ultra hi-end set up of yours.

How I wish you could come home & I could make you listen & realise what I was trying to say.

I missed it last time. Hope I can make it again sometime.

16/44.1 ripped on dB Power Amp - sounds the best to me - even better than 24/192 etc.

That is a very interesting observation.

 

[ranjeetrain]

I spent thousands of hours arranging, and re-arranging and again re-arranging and again re-arranging my music collection. Fortunately, a lot of software tools came along over the years. Most useful have been for my purpose "MP3 Renamer" (In the good old MP3 days) and now Foobar. Foobar has strong pattern matching and renaming capabilities, something which used to be bulk of the manual task to be done. Try renaming a few hundred files manually, one at a time, copy-pasting parts of it's name from one location to another within the file name. It was an extremely irritating thing to do, but for the love of the hobby!

Then came along media management tools. No media player worth it's salt in existence today comes without built-in media management capability. No longer manual tagging and renaming in order to find the tracks you want to play. Once your media has been tagged rightly, it's a few click and a few keystrokes to find all the track you want to play. Heck, many of these software come with smart playlist that can quite accurately predict the tracks you may want to queue next.

No more renaming and filing business for me anymore. Though I do have a basic storage structure, to help me prevent from ending up with tonnes of duplicates and thousands of hours in A/B to choose the best sounding version.

Here is my top level structure:

> Devotional
> European
> Ghazals
> Learning
> Lossless
--> Audiophile
--> Desi
--> --> Compilations
--> --> OST
--> --> Remixes
--> Chinese
--> English
--> --> Compilations
--> --> Artists
--> --> --> Albums
> Lossy
--> Desi
--> Chinese
--> English
> Misc

With this structure combined with media management capabilities of my media player, I am able to search for what I need fairly quickly, both at the OS level and media player level.

Please note that if you have a DLNA capable NAS and media player, you don't need to even have a folder structure. Just dump everything wherever you wish and let the software do all the dirty work for you. But the folder structure does help in minimizing duplicates. God alone knows how many hundreds or thousands hours I might have spent eliminating duplicates. So there you go. Here is how I am saving my time now and yet able to find everything by a mere few click a mere few key-strokes.

My chains are:

Laptop > Headphone
Laptop > Portable DAC > Headphone
NAS > Laptop/MacMini > Portable DAC > Headphone
NAS > Media player > AVR > Speakers
NAS > DLNA > BD Player > AVR > Speakers
NAS > Laptop > DAC > Amp > Speakers
NAS > MacMini > DAC > Amp > Speakers (MacMini is yet to be hooked up into the main system.)

 

[bhagwan]

Our experience is only in my modest set up ; Marantz CDP, Acoustic Portrait NOS DAC, Dared VP845 and Cadence Aristas. We also tried with a couple of other DACs but not of the pedigree of DCS Scarlatti.

It is quite possible that things could get different in ultra hi-end set up of yours.



I missed it last time. Hope I can make it again sometime.



That is a very interesting observation.

a]
The DAC does not matter;
You could have a dCS Vivaldi or a Parasound Z DAC - it will remain as a 'constant' in the chain.
i.e. The CD Transport will feed into it & the Computer too will feed into it.
Therefore what the DAC is - therefor of no importance;

b]
My doors are still open. You are most welcome - anytime.

c]
The Name of the Game is WHAT Computer you are using & How it has been configured & How the Digital Signal is being fed to the DAC.
All these affect the sound & in a big manner

d]
What is being used to RIP the CD's [software]
What format it has been ripped in & what is the error correction that has been employed.

O.T.
The dCS Scarlatti was sold 13 months back.
I now use a DAD AX-24 [Digital Audio Denmark] & am satisfied with its performance. What I miss is the dCS's Volume Control [more than anything else] !