Moving for AVR to stereo Amp

[Abhi012]

Hi.. I am having my Wharfedale obsidian 600 5.1 connected to an Yamaha V795 AVR. I am hardly using it as a 5.1 setup and mostly using for music in Stereo tone bypass mode. Based on a few suggestions I am planning to replace the AVR with a dedicated stereo Amp(using it with Wharfedale FS) for a better music experience. Planning to have my hands on a used Marantz 5005 for trial before investing on a new one. I listen to my music from Saavn(super duper high streaming, probably 320kbps) that is connected to optical input of the AVR through an Cromecast Audio device using a Toslink cable. My music is mostly bollywood with a recently developed inclination towards unplugged versions. Now I am here for some suggestions on below,

1. Should I expect a Notable listening experience going ahead with above said changes.

2. My budget for Amp is within 20K, do I have another option of stereo Amp. Should low power pc for 5005 for my floorstanders be a concern.

3. Does the CCA DAC pair well with the above said setup or should I go for a dedicated DAC. Any suggestions for DAC under 10K.

4. Does a economical preamp(Say under 10k) bring any improvement.

Regards,
Abhi

 

[drkrack]

1. Yes a Dedicated Stereo Amp changes the quality of Music over AVR considerably anyday. I own a flagship Marantz AVR, but I Rarely prefer it for music. You can Look at used stereo amps at 20k, in that way you could get a better amp than Marantz you are planning. Used Stereo amps from Cambridge Audio, NAD, Marantz, Yamaha & Onkyo can be considered in your budget. Look at the classiffieds section. Used, well maintained Vintage amps will also be of a great value.
2. Marantz under reports the Powerage of Amps, 5005 should be sufficient to drive the Wharfdale towers you have.
3. again yes, a dedicated DAC even like SMSL Sanskrit 6th at 8k improves the SQ. But I would suggest you invest in at least Cambridge audio Dacmagic 100 or Modi 2 Uber/Multibit at ~ 20k INR.
4. I have a personal experience with incremental upgrade in SQ by adding a cheap(Cheap in Money sense only! not SQ) Chinese tube preamp , but that will be Preamp and Poweramp separates (a whole new level in HIFI journey), instead of integrated stereo amps under discussion in 2. You can buy a cheap Chinese tube Preamp + Poweramp combo well under 15k, and buy a better DAC with Remaining amount.

If you are budget constrained, planned step-wise upgrade is better ( and you will have a proper learning curve in HIFI journey) in my view. I would use the amount for buying a good integrated amp now , like Acoustic Portrait Integrated Amp + Chromecast Audio (around 40k).
Every Component in the chain is important from Source to speakers, and speakers make a great perceivable change to overall SQ than most other components. So Go for time tested step-wise approach.

 

[efernand1]

Hi.. I am having my Wharfedale obsidian 600 5.1 connected to an Yamaha V795 AVR. I am hardly using it as a 5.1 setup and mostly using for music in Stereo tone bypass mode. Based on a few suggestions I am planning to replace the AVR with a dedicated stereo Amp(using it with Wharfedale FS) for a better music experience. Planning to have my hands on a used Marantz 5005 for trial before investing on a new one. I listen to my music from Saavn(super duper high streaming, probably 320kbps) that is connected to optical input of the AVR through an Cromecast Audio device using a Toslink cable. My music is mostly bollywood with a recently developed inclination towards unplugged versions. Now I am here for some suggestions on below,

1. Should I expect a Notable listening experience going ahead with above said changes.

2. My budget for Amp is within 20K, do I have another option of stereo Amp. Should low power pc for 5005 for my floorstanders be a concern.

3. Does the CCA DAC pair well with the above said setup or should I go for a dedicated DAC. Any suggestions for DAC under 10K.

4. Does a economical preamp(Say under 10k) bring any improvement.

Regards,
Abhi

Hi

A good thing to know is that although it is said a speaker is a speaker....most brands available nowadays are designed specifically for HT and for music....some are for both.

The Yamaha V795 is a good AVR and have you tried tweaking with the settings? Manual speaker level Adjustments? Sometimes the source is the culprit in poor audio playback...some may claim 320kbps....it is actually 128kbps quality......try a normal CD and see the difference.....

The PM 5005 is entry level Marantz stereo amp.....you may not find much of a difference.....my younger bro was using the PM 6005 with Dali Zensor 3 ...once the volume was cranked up till 11 O Clock position...it used to clip and shut off......He moved to a Marantz AVR ..NR series and enjoys music and movies in a much better manner......The Marantz AVR can be tweaked manually besides audyssey setup to get optimal performance......secondly the AVR serves as a media hub to connect all the digital sources we have today....

I use the Marantz SR 6008 and hear almost 90% music and 10% movies.....I have never been more happier with this arrangement....it all depends what speakers are hooked up, their impedance, the actual frequencies delivered by them, their sensitivity levels etc....placement too is important....

With respect to your points:

1. Change your source and try.....it is said you will face a big difference between a Stereo AMP V/S AVR if you look at good brands and models.

2. I have my doubts on the 5005 to drive the towers.....it will work....if you are looking to crank the volume, you may face some challenges of shutting off.....if you have a friend who owns a stereo amp, borrow it and test....

3. Known branded DACs have worked well for most FMs.....

4. Yes in some cases, it depends on which one and how you intergrate all together......

Given your budget...OLX has many ads.....you should audition before purchase and even bargain based on overall condition etc.....

This is one such example which will bring wonders to your speakers.....it has Digital sources in too (NO HDMI)

https://www.olx.in/item/marantz-gol...ier-for-home-theater-ID1axCVF.html#4ccbc8d971

All the best!

 

[elangoas]

1. Should I expect a Notable listening experience going ahead with above said changes.

May be not.. IMO, you already have decent AVR and speakers.. You should try to make your listening experience better by tweaking the settings in AVR if any, use the right preset mode for stereo than adding a new equipment to your chain..

If you would be using Saavan, which i think is lossy streaming, listening experience would be the same even if you upgrade to stereo amp..

Yamaha RX v 795 being a midrange AVR, should easily be able to pump 80 watts in stereo mode, which is more than enough for moderate rooms..

 

[Abhi012]

1. Yes a Dedicated Stereo Amp changes the quality of Music over AVR considerably anyday. I own a flagship Marantz AVR, but I Rarely prefer it for music. You can Look at used stereo amps at 20k, in that way you could get a better amp than Marantz you are planning. Used Stereo amps from Cambridge Audio, NAD, Marantz, Yamaha & Onkyo can be considered in your budget. Look at the classiffieds section. Used, well maintained Vintage amps will also be of a great value.
2. Marantz under reports the Powerage of Amps, 5005 should be sufficient to drive the Wharfdale towers you have.
3. again yes, a dedicated DAC even like SMSL Sanskrit 6th at 8k improves the SQ. But I would suggest you invest in at least Cambridge audio Dacmagic 100 or Modi 2 Uber/Multibit at ~ 20k INR.
4. I have a personal experience with incremental upgrade in SQ by adding a cheap(Cheap in Money sense only! not SQ) Chinese tube preamp , but that will be Preamp and Poweramp separates (a whole new level in HIFI journey), instead of integrated stereo amps under discussion in 2. You can buy a cheap Chinese tube Preamp + Poweramp combo well under 15k, and buy a better DAC with Remaining amount.

If you are budget constrained, planned step-wise upgrade is better ( and you will have a proper learning curve in HIFI journey) in my view. I would use the amount for buying a good integrated amp now , like Acoustic Portrait Integrated Amp + Chromecast Audio (around 40k).
Every Component in the chain is important from Source to speakers, and speakers make a great perceivable change to overall SQ than most other components. So Go for time tested step-wise approach.

Thanks for the time and effort you took to explain all above..
Based on what I could understand I ve almost decided to get a better Dac that would probably be a DACMAGIC 100.
I am dropping my idea of PM 5005 as I am not getting convinced of a notable SQ improvement over my V795. Ll keep an eye on classifieds for a good deal for better amp..

Could that Chinese preamp be something like Nobsound 6J1. Can you help me with some solid state poweramp models within my range of 15-20K for both my speakers.

 

[Abhi012]

Hi

A good thing to know is that although it is said a speaker is a speaker....most brands available nowadays are designed specifically for HT and for music....some are for both.

The Yamaha V795 is a good AVR and have you tried tweaking with the settings? Manual speaker level Adjustments? Sometimes the source is the culprit in poor audio playback...some may claim 320kbps....it is actually 128kbps quality......try a normal CD and see the difference.....

The PM 5005 is entry level Marantz stereo amp.....you may not find much of a difference.....my younger bro was using the PM 6005 with Dali Zensor 3 ...once the volume was cranked up till 11 O Clock position...it used to clip and shut off......He moved to a Marantz AVR ..NR series and enjoys music and movies in a much better manner......The Marantz AVR can be tweaked manually besides audyssey setup to get optimal performance......secondly the AVR serves as a media hub to connect all the digital sources we have today....

I use the Marantz SR 6008 and hear almost 90% music and 10% movies.....I have never been more happier with this arrangement....it all depends what speakers are hooked up, their impedance, the actual frequencies delivered by them, their sensitivity levels etc....placement too is important....

With respect to your points:

1. Change your source and try.....it is said you will face a big difference between a Stereo AMP V/S AVR if you look at good brands and models.

2. I have my doubts on the 5005 to drive the towers.....it will work....if you are looking to crank the volume, you may face some challenges of shutting off.....if you have a friend who owns a stereo amp, borrow it and test....

3. Known branded DACs have worked well for most FMs.....

4. Yes in some cases, it depends on which one and how you intergrate all together......

Given your budget...OLX has many ads.....you should audition before purchase and even bargain based on overall condition etc.....

This is one such example which will bring wonders to your speakers.....it has Digital sources in too (NO HDMI)

https://www.olx.in/item/marantz-gol...ier-for-home-theater-ID1axCVF.html#4ccbc8d971

All the best!

Thanks for your message..
I do understand the importance of source.. But nothing comes even close to the flexibility and collection of a modern day music streaming app.. I am working to maintain a collection of Flacs of my favorite music. Flacs played through a chromecast via bubble pnp into a decent quality Dac should constitute a good source, right?
I don't think my AVR allows and tweaks and adjustments in to stereo mode.. Tried to find but could not find anything. I just use Tone bypass which I suppose bypasses tone control circuitry.. And that's all I have..
Do you recommend that your suggested Used SR7200 could be an improvement over my existing V795. Please advise..

 

[Abhi012]

May be not.. IMO, you already have decent AVR and speakers.. You should try to make your listening experience better by tweaking the settings in AVR if any, use the right preset mode for stereo than adding a new equipment to your chain..

If you would be using Saavan, which i think is lossy streaming, listening experience would be the same even if you upgrade to stereo amp..

Yamaha RX v 795 being a midrange AVR, should easily be able to pump 80 watts in stereo mode, which is more than enough for moderate rooms..

Hi, Thanks for your message.
Please help me with my concern for source and AVR settings in Stereo mode expressed in above post replied to @efernand1 .I could also not find any presets in Stereo, is there something else I am missing.

Listening volumes or power should not a problem but my AVR turns off once I crank volume over 1 PM. Is that a limitation of my speaker or AVR. Though that much volume is sufficient to make my neighbours complain.

I am thinking to add a Dac and a economical preamp to my chain. What else could I improve in the chain.

 

[Abhi012]

 It seems I am more confused that ever about possible upgrade plans..

 

[tuff]

 It seems I am more confused that ever about possible upgrade plans..

LOL!!! Before you upgrade anything, try the other Chromecast analogue output and see if you notice any difference between the Yamaha's DAC and Chromecast DAC. If you don't, I am guessing you will not hear any significant improvement with any other DAC combination. Personally I would wait and increase the budget where you can upgrade the speakers, or a substantially better stereo amp. Sometimes playing with different speaker placement changes the sound significantly.

 

[drkrack]

LOL!!! Before you upgrade anything, try the other Chromecast analogue output and see if you notice any difference between the Yamaha's DAC and Chromecast DAC. Sometimes playing with different speaker placement changes the sound significantly.

@OP these are Very Wise words, As I explained earlier from Source to Room everything Plays a role in SQ (unfortunately) Speaker Positioning guides from Youtube should help you understand and optimize acoustics. Chromecast audio is a seriously underrated device.

Thanks for the time and effort you took to explain all above..
Based on what I could understand I ve almost decided to get a better Dac that would probably be a DACMAGIC 100.
Could that Chinese preamp be something like Nobsound 6J1. Can you help me with some solid state poweramp models within my range of 15-20K for both my speakers.

its 6J1 from FX audio, they all sound nearly same. Rolling to better GE/Russian tubes is most important. I dont think you should Jump to DAC selection as of yet, fix your amp preference first IMHO.
if ever you decide to buy the DAC, Buy Modi Multibit if the price difference between Dacmagic 100 isn't huge.

Hi, Thanks for your message.
Please help me with my concern for source and AVR settings in Stereo mode expressed in above post replied to @efernand1 .I could also not find any presets in Stereo, is there something else I am missing.

Listening volumes or power should not a problem but my AVR turns off once I crank volume over 1 PM. Is that a limitation of my speaker or AVR. Though that much volume is sufficient to make my neighbours complain.

I am thinking to add a Dac and a economical preamp to my chain. What else could I improve in the chain.

There is no point sticking to AVR if you don't use 5.1 in my opinion. User tweakable AVR stereo settings differ from model to model, check speakerwise EQ settings.

Take auditions for Stereo Amps, that will help you understand what you like and don't . Keep us Posted with your Audition experiences, many will be able to guide you better.

 

[drkrack]

LOL!!! Before you upgrade anything, try the other Chromecast analogue output and see if you notice any difference between the Yamaha's DAC and Chromecast DAC. Sometimes playing with different speaker placement changes the sound significantly.

@OP these areVery Wise words, As I explained earlier from Source to Room everything Plays a role in SQ (unfortunately). chromecast audio is a seriously underrated device,

Thanks for the time and effort you took to explain all above..
Based on what I could understand I ve almost decided to get a better Dac that would probably be a DACMAGIC 100.
Could that Chinese preamp be something like Nobsound 6J1. Can you help me with some solid state poweramp models within my range of 15-20K for both my speakers.

its 6J1 from FX audio, they all sound nearly same. Rolling to better GE/Russian tubes is most important. I dont think you should Jump to DAC selection as of yet, fix your amp preference first IMHO.
if ever you decide to buy the DAC, Buy Modi Multibit if the price difference between Dacmagic 100 isn't huge.

Hi, Thanks for your message.
Please help me with my concern for source and AVR settings in Stereo mode expressed in above post replied to @efernand1 .I could also not find any presets in Stereo, is there something else I am missing.

Listening volumes or power should not a problem but my AVR turns off once I crank volume over 1 PM. Is that a limitation of my speaker or AVR. Though that much volume is sufficient to make my neighbours complain.

I am thinking to add a Dac and a economical preamp to my chain. What else could I improve in the chain.

There is no point sticking to AVR if you don't use 5.1 in my opinion. User tweakable AVR stereo settings differ from model to model, check speakerwise EQ settings.

Take auditions for Stereo Amps that will help you understand what you like and don't like .

 It seems I am more confused that ever about possible upgrade plans..

Welcome to HFV !

 

[hemya]

Posting what I said in another thread with some minor edits......
-----------------------------------------------------
My requirements were mostly music and occasional movies, but I had still invested in an AVR setup when I was in the US.

I moved from a 5.1 setup to a stereo setup as my living room in India was much smaller and I couldn't accommodate my bookshelf and floor standing speakers.

My Onkyo AVR was bought in the US and when it died on me last year I found it hard to get it repaired.

Went without music for 3-4 months and I had to figure something out within my budget. Didn't like the AVR's that were on offer so I spoke to my audio repair guy in Pune and after some discussion with him I decided to move to a 'temporary' stereo setup and got the Marantz PM 6006.

Now there is no looking back. If I ever get to the stage where I start watching a lot of movies, I may invest in an AVR. But for my music needs (mix of FLAC, mp3 and vinyl) the stereo option is perfect and my floor standing speakers have never sounded better. I have Energy CF-70 floor standing speakers....