My Dac experience

CLEARCUT

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Nowadays Dac is the latest thirst in audiophiles. I am happy to share my experience in Dac. I have come across Ca dacmagic, Ca 24k (Made in England) Aragon but do not know its specification. Ca mclik, Sharp One bit technology, Ps audio ultra link Two, Wyred four sound 1. It is obvious some really good dac does not suppress the original quality but purifies the sound. I do not know how to explain it in the name jitter, reclock. But only if your hifi system is really high end You could identify the quality or purified music difference. The same numbered sabre dac is used in oppo 105 and in my wyred four sound 1. It is heartening to say the dac performance of the Oppo 105(in audio two channel) is very normal. My Wfs is far far superior. On the other hand when I play my Pophorn hour 300 via my dacs I found the audio is better and also better than the audio of some good BD players( Pana 320, Pioneer Lx55). Because I played very good recorded Hd or flac files through my Bdp and Pophorn hour 300 it with hdd. Nowadays I come to know the pophorn hour 410 uses Sabre chip which is nearby Wfs in audio qulaity. So my conclusion is Only really good dac works better than a good audio cd player you can identify the difference only if you have really highend systems. But if playing songs through media centre or cpu It is must to have dac. I like my Wyred four sound one and Ps audio ultra link two than all which I have used earlier. Ca24k also is better than dac magic. I think Ca lost its credential after it started its manufacturing in some other countries. If the next Pophorn hour model comes with a digital input there is no doubt it will rock the hearts of audiophiles heart
 
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Clearcut , is there any setting in oppo 105 to improve the sound quality in stereo mode ? My observation is inline with yours , however the oppo has got very high reviews elsewhere , so wanted to confirm if we missed anything.
 
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Like to add my experience. I have Oppo 105 and it's output depends a lot with connected equipment. With my KEF speakers I find it sounds polite and tad bit warmer, but with my Klipsch speakers, it sounds very dynamic and live. Klipsch speakers are powered by a more powerful amps than KEF. I also felt that my DIY pass b1 pre oozes out more juice out of Oppo compared to connecting Oppo directly to a power amp.

There has been some reviews that suggest that Oppo 95 was much better than Oppo 105 for 2 channel analog out. They changed the DAC config in Oppo 105 for dedicated 2 channel out.

Killer brain, we should do an A-B comparison with your DAC when you are visiting my home :).

There is another thing I noticed. It looks more like a placebo effect. This was recommended by our vinyl guru Kuruvila Jacob. I was runnin Oppo through the vertex audio grade stabilizer. I was told that vertex can rob some dynamic range out of these players. I just connected my Oppo to direct wall power socket and I think I "hear" a difference :). And I feel direct power from wall makes Oppo sound better in terms of clarity. It may be just a trick played by my mind. I would do some more testing and confirm this soon.

John.
 
Now I have almost decided that my stereo upgrade to have dynamic and efficient speakers with hybrid amplification. Following is now top in my short list

Klipsch RF 7 II speakers + Lyrita DHT Pre + Emotiva XPA 1L 250w mono block power.
Source : Oppo 105 for digital and vintage Technics SL Q 33 + Lyrita Phono Pre for analog.

I wouldn't be surprised to know that W4S DAC smoking Oppo 105 in A-B comparison, though they use same DAC chip. I think it analogous to comparing AVR against separates. Oppo for me is a jack of all and W4S being the master at pure DAC performance.

My 2 cents.

John.
 
John I sold my audiogd as it did not pair well with speakers. I have the cheaper audioquest dragon fly now which I can bring .
 
@Clearcut, @Killerbrain, I too bought OPPO BDP105 with lot of expectations especially to use it as a dedicated CD player as its Transport is one of the best in industry and possessed Saber 9018S DAC chip. Where as to my dismay the direct 2channel audio out really sucked in both balanced and in unbalanced outs.

When I used 105 as DAC also the story is the same. Where as when I took the digital out and gave it to W4S DAC1 which is architecting the same DAC chip the sound quality is phenomenal.

On the other hand 105 is an all round performer with good transport and despite this DAC capability it is still value for money.

In fact the gentleman who bought my 105 is using it with Benchmark DAC and he is happy with its overall functionality, versatility and transport.
 
Following is now top in my short list

Klipsch RF 7 II speakers + Lyrita DHT Pre + Emotiva XPA 1L 250w mono block power.
Source : Oppo 105 for digital and vintage Technics SL Q 33 + Lyrita Phono Pre for analog.

The emotiva may not work with the Klipsch. What klipsch requires is refinement and a few watts of pure clean power. Anything upto 20 - 25W is more than enough for it to go really loud. I've heard this speaker with a Musical Fidelity A1 which was just a 20 watter and a Marantz CD-94. It sounded absolutely stunning. Klipsch is a speaker that is not very refined - but it does rock really really well when paired with the right equipment. Also the lyrita DHT that you have selected is not the most silent preamp. The hum will drive you mad with a super efficient speaker like the klipsch.

My honest opinion is to look for a 25W Sugden class A or find a Nelson Pass Firstwatt F4. Even a low wattage tube like a Shindo Montille might do wonders.

As for my DAC upgrade, I'm wondering whether to buy the Berkeley Alpha with the USB converter blind. Every review says it is good and so far I've found nothing negative about it. Can be imported from sg. In talks with the distributor right now.
 
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A quick update, the new Klipsch reference MK II sounds very refined and powerful when given ample power. Reference series needs high power for perfect low frequency extensions and I can confirm that Klipsch are not high sensitive in "real life" though the specs on paper say so. Ther real life measurement says that they are only 91db and not 97db as per the specs. My experience makes me believe that fact.

I did a lot of A-B comparison and they smoked my KEF (Q300 and iQ7) speakers in clarity and refinement. They do love good solid power. I used to hate Klipsch before. But the new reference series are something totally very different from the earlier Klipsch. Their RF 7 II are very good and sounded very balanced. I could not hear any more fatiguing and ear piercing top end with it.

And Klipsch bookshelves sound better with Emotiva XPA 200 power amp compared to KEF iQ7 floor stander in terms of clarity and dynamics.

All the above observations are purely based on my ears and experience in my acoustically treated listening room environment.

Thanks,
John.
 
@Clearcut, @Killerbrain, I too bought OPPO BDP105 with lot of expectations especially to use it as a dedicated CD player as its Transport is one of the best in industry and possessed Saber 9018S DAC chip. Where as to my dismay the direct 2channel audio out really sucked in both balanced and in unbalanced outs.



When I used 105 as DAC also the story is the same. Where as when I took the digital out and gave it to W4S DAC1 which is architecting the same DAC chip the sound quality is phenomenal.



On the other hand 105 is an all round performer with good transport and despite this DAC capability it is still value for money.



In fact the gentleman who bought my 105 is using it with Benchmark DAC and he is happy with its overall functionality, versatility and transport.


Hi Balagopalan and others,

I am curious to know what is lacking in Oppo 105 DAC. Looks like all your reviews are tempting me to get a W4S DAC 1/2 :). Would like to know what exactly is lacking in the stock DAC. Is it refinement, clarity, mid range, low end, warmth, sound stage, depth etc etc. I do feel that it sounded warm, polite and slightly lifeless with my KEF speakers, but with Klipsch I felt it sounded great. Live and dynamic.

I am curious to know about the significant improvements an external DAC brings in. If it really worth it, then I would like to invest in a W4S DAC. I really don't want to miss out on the party :d

I really don't believe 100% in the reviews from others, I trust my ears the most. However what I am repeatedly seeing is that people who use Oppo 105 in India found its DAC performing bad against external DACs with same DAC chip. But 95% of the people who use it outside India unanimously favour Oppo 105 DAC against W4S and other more expensive DACs. There were few negative reviews as well, but majority favoured Oppo 105 sound to similar spec'd external DACs.

Just my observation :). I may be sounding totally insane and stupid here as I too doesn't trust most of these online reviews. I also saw that most of the owners felt vast improvement after 200 hrs of usage. I can not agree to that as well as I always believe that it's your brain that gets used to the sound and not the equipment.

Just curious, when you guys say it sucked badly, was it a brand new player out of the box or did it have some hours "burnt in"? I know this doesn't make much sense, just in case ;).

I totally agree with Balagopalan on Oppo 105's versatility and video performance. It's one hell of a package deal.

Thanks,
John.
 
A quick update, the new Klipsch reference MK II sounds very refined and powerful when given ample power. Reference series needs high power for perfect low frequency extensions and I can confirm that Klipsch are not high sensitive in "real life" though the specs on paper say so. Ther real life measurement says that they are only 91db and not 97db as per the specs. My experience makes me believe that fact.

I did a lot of A-B comparison and they smoked my KEF (Q300 and iQ7) speakers in clarity and refinement. They do love good solid power. I used to hate Klipsch before. But the new reference series are something totally very different from the earlier Klipsch. Their RF 7 II are very good and sounded very balanced. I could not hear any more fatiguing and ear piercing top end with it.

And Klipsch bookshelves sound better with Emotiva XPA 200 power amp compared to KEF iQ7 floor stander in terms of clarity and dynamics.

All the above observations are purely based on my ears and experience in my acoustically treated listening room environment.

Thanks,
John.

Well the question of refinement depends on what you are comparing against. The kef i series is not something i fancy at all. The other horn loaded speaker that I love is blumenhofer and compared to that, klipsch's refinement leaves a lot to be desired. Please don't take it negatively - this is actually good at times. If a speaker is ultra refined, it might put you to sleep in certain genres of music.

So if the amp is really smooth, it will do very very well. I recently heard an emotiva at a friend's place and I think it is a good ht amp but not really meant for stereo where you need more than just grunt. The full body of the mid range and the smoothness of the top end was clearly missing. The tone was just not what you expect out of a high end stereo amp. This was an xpa2. The mono amps might be better. Also do not skimp on the preamp. It can make or break your system.

Also look at your source - have heard the w4s DAC and it is good especially for the price. What you miss out is mostly the last ounce of slam and high frequency air - something not worth complaining about at that price.
 
John

We also compared oppo with audiogd during my Chennai visit, audiogd was better and also comparatively cheaper.

Major difference was in the lower octaves , with oppo the huge B&W FS sounded like a BS with the powerful/neutral symphonic line amplifier. With audio gd , the quality and quantity was lot better and well defined bass, it was a night and day difference

In the mids , the tonal shades are on the cooler side with oppo, in audiogd it was rich. The 3d depth was miing And blurred in oppo, I was blaming and suspecting the rip was not correct. The flac was Not my file, but I am familiar with that specific track. Later we changed it audiogd , it showed the real magic

Mr bala pls correct And add , it was sometime back , I don't remember it exactly as we tried with several combinations

In fact these experiments with different DACs showed how good and transperant is the amplification by the symphonic line . I could only imagIne e how well it should sound with the next segment DACs, symphonic line really deserves better source
 
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Great explanation dude. Spot on. My KEF can lull me to sleep, usually with Jim reeves, Fleetwood mac etc etc :). I personally like KEF for it's laid back presentation. The details given by Klipsch is in a totally different league. It's almost feel like you are in the middle of a live orchestra. I listened to 3 hrs and didn't get any fatigue at all. But older Klipsch used to give me headache in less than 30 mins. So there is a big change. I usually choose between Klipsch + Sub combo for certain genre and KEF for laid back genre. It kinda cover my wide genre of music taste pretty well. I recently listened to Harbeth SHL5with a half million Rs. tube setup. They indeed sounded great, but I could never justify the price to value ratio comparing to the modest setup I have. I am yet to audition blumenhofer and now that I started liking horn sound, I will definitely keep that in by stereo upgrade short list.

BTW, I got my current Emotiva and Klipsch purely for movies after I got burnt by a wrong speaker choice before. But it came as a surprise to me that it did sound pretty good and lively for music. The Emotiva XPA 1L I am considering for stereo can "mimic" pure class A operation for first 35 watts and after it clips that range, it can change to class AB operation till 250w. And the reviews are pretty good :). It's essentially a class AB amp.

Coming back to Oppo performance, here are some more observations.

1. Oppo analog output sounds crap right out of cold start. It takes minimum 45 mins for it to warmup. After 45 mins it starts to shine.
2. Oppo digital output sounds good right out of cold start.
3. I think I noticed something else, when I connected 2nd HDMI out for audio and used analog out along with that, the analog sound quality deteriorated. Then I unplugged the Second HDMI audio out, the analog sound seemed to improve. It might be a placebo effect. Anyway now I don't use digital out from Oppo for stereo or movies. I use all analog out form Oppo.
4. I also seen that all my analog gear suffered sound quality issues when used through the Vertex "audio grade" stabilizer. My stereo power amp used to hum pretty bad with vertex. Now with direct power, it's very silent. Even I felt my Oppo sounded better when connected directly to wall power.

Thanks,
John.
 
John

We also compared oppo with audiogd during my Chennai visit, audiogd was better and also comparatively cheaper.

Major difference was in the lower octaves , with oppo the huge B&W FS sounded like a BS with the powerful/neutral symphonic line amplifier. With audio gd , the quality and quantity was lot better and well defined bass, it was a night and day difference

In the mids , the tonal shades are on the cooler side with oppo, in audiogd it was rich. The 3d depth was miing And blurred in oppo, I was blaming and suspecting the rip was not correct. The flac was Not my file, but I am familiar with that specific track. Later we changed it audiogd , it showed the real magic

Mr bala pls correct And add , it was sometime back , I don't remember it exactly as we tried with several combinations

In fact these experiments with different DACs showed how good and transperant is the amplification by the symphonic line . I could only imagIne e how well it should sound with the next segment DACs, symphonic line really deserves better source


Actually I just got the total opposite experience, I was almost going to sell off my KEF iQ7 as it lacked bass and dynamics. But I guess my new setup -> Oppo 105, Pass b1 pre, a 75w acoustic portrait power amp and of course the dedicated room gave it a new lease of life. Now I am NOT going to sell it :). It was like I got a new pair of speakers. Well it is still laid back compared to Klipsch, but sounds very good for laid back genre of music. Also it doesn't produce chest thumping bass. Just adequate bass.

You can comment on it when you actually listen to my setup. That's why I wanted a different pair of ears to listen to my system and tell me what is missing.

John.
 
Well the question of refinement depends on what you are comparing against. The kef i series is not something i fancy at all. The other horn loaded speaker that I love is blumenhofer and compared to that, klipsch's refinement leaves a lot to be desired. Please don't take it negatively - this is actually good at times. If a speaker is ultra refined, it might put you to sleep in certain genres of music.

I used to own a Klipsch RF3 II quite some time back . it is a good speaker although the two main issues it had ( then ie 2005)for 2 channel listening was around a really bright high freq (2-4 khz) and the only way i could tame it was with a small tissue paper on the tractrix horn mouth. The other issue was the integeration between the tweeter and the woofer and with vocals you could hear the transition between the two and the change in tone.

Maybe they have modified the design now and I would suggest listening to an old indian recording on female vocals to test out if you are ok with the sound (preferably after 30 mins of listening)

For Rock and as an HT i believe Klipschs is a fantastic speaker..what it lacks in refinement it makes up in energy. I kind of got over the energy kick and moved to a more refined JM renaud after more than 4 years with the klipsch.

Ideally for the Klipsch try a Tube amp..it makes up for a lot of its shortcomings and at the 95+ dbs it does not need more than 15-20 W for full dynamic range
 
Guys,

This calls for a small meet up at my home :). I am a bachelor from 23-Feb for 2 weeks :yahoo:. Lets plan for a meet at my place if you guys are okay. I am located near K.R. Puram.

Let me know your thoughts.

-John.
 
Guys,

This calls for a small meet up at my home :). I am a bachelor from 23-Feb for 2 weeks :yahoo:. Lets plan for a meet at my place if you guys are okay. I am located near K.R. Puram.

Let me know your thoughts.

-John.

When did you move so close? Lets meet up. Long time :)

--G0bble
 
John_k_antony,

I'd be in to listen to the Klipsch package any day. I am in brookefields. :cool:

Kittu
 
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