My experimentation with VTA and few related Questions

mahiruha

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Hi Guys,
These days I have started experimenting with VTA in my TT. Actually I had this on the fly VTA adjustment from the beginning but never really understood how to use it. Couple of days back I took the plunge and started rotating the dial as the vinyl is being played and it was quite remarkable how the sound changes. Now I have started a new routine of dial in the particular VTA for every record, keep it noted on the cover and use that value for that particular record.

Now I have few basic questions to better my understanding.

I have gone through all the manuals in VPI website and only in two places it talks about VTA adjustment

"Rotating the knob clockwise lowers the arm and rotating it counterclockwise raises it."

"Rule of thumb: Raising VTA lowers bass and increases treble. Lowering VTA increases bass and decreases treble."

From these two statements it is not absolutely clear when the arm is lowered the VTA is increasing or decreasing. However if I go by the marking on the dial then rotating it clockwise decrease the reading and counterclockwise increases the reading. So basically I want to know if we lower the arm VTA is increasing or decreasing?

I tried understanding the geometry of VTA from
Phono CARTRIDGE Mounting, TONEARM Alignment TOOL, TURNTABLE Set-Up, VTA, LTA, Adjustment of BIAS Compensation.

From the picture it seems if we lower the arm at tonearm base then VTA tend to decrease. Am I correct in my understanding?
Thanks.
 
Yes, your understanding is correct.

Most well designed cartridges have the stylus mounted on the cantilever so that the SRA (stylus rake angle - the angle between the stylus axis and the perpendicular) is approx. 20 degrees, which is the same angle that the cutting stylus uses in the master lacquer cut. Ideally this angle should be met with the entire arm length - from headshell to counterweight - at perfectly horizontal. You can check this by placing a tiny circular spirit level (available cheap off eBay) on the headshell with the stylus lower on to a stationary record. Lowering the arm at its pivot will lower the counterweight and raise the headshell, and vice versa in case you raise the arm height.

The problem is that nothing is perfect, and the entire SRA issue is affected by record thickness, especially with the 180 and 200 g pressings available these days. It's nice to have an arm that allows arm height to be adjusted on the fly while a record is playing, so that one can judge by ones ears. Many audiophiles - in Japan especially - get obsessive about these things and record their VTA settings for each record and adjust accordingly. Personally, I'm content with keeping the arm perfectly horizontal, esp. since my 3009 arm does not allow on the fly adjustment. :)
 
Hi G401,
thanks for clearing my doubts. Well this VTA thing is controversial for sure. For some reason I wasn't too comfortable playing around with it but then I just decided to take the plunge and for sure it makes a difference. My basic idea was to make sure the changes I hear should be based on actual expectation so that I precisely know how to make dull sounding vinyls more exciting and tame the brightness of bright sounding ones. I have been reading this link which talks about if VTA is a myth or not.
Exposing the VTA myth? [English] Very interesting reading.
Thanks.
 
Hi Mahiruha,
Thanks for the article, tho' I'm not sure I entirely agree with the writer's conclusions. The initial diagram is also wrong as it pre-supposes that the stylus is at a 90 degree angle with the record playing surface - the 20 degree SRA is not evident. Still, no matter what the theoretical arguments, I've always believed in the maxim: Trust your own ears; if it works for you, that's great.
 
Individual VTA setting for each record. You are truly descending into the the blackest of vinyl depths Mahiruha :)

It's great to have that convenience and easy adjustability if one is inclined to do so.

This is one setting that can only be set by ear so have fun!

Regards
 
Individual VTA setting for each record. You are truly descending into the the blackest of vinyl depths Mahiruha :)

It's great to have that convenience and easy adjustability if one is inclined to do so.

This is one setting that can only be set by ear so have fun!

Regards

BTW, let me confess here. I also tried it. But in different way. I used stock platter mat as reference with standard OEM setting. I used thin paper/no mat (replaced current mat with paper template) to increase VTA. Also tried adding additional mat upto 3mm(or 2 records stacked) to decrease VTA. I found best adjustment with standard settings as per the manual are the best for all conditions on my TT.

Any thoughts?
 
Hi Omishra,

If I understand your post correctly, you're moving VTA in the >1mm range, a 3mm mat is too wide a range. If you're moving it by that much you'd be way off the mark in your setting. You'd get best results within, under and around an mm. Start at tonearm level, go a little low, go a little higher, try as small a fraction of an mm as you can. Of course if you're changing VTA, then go back to check VTF and your stylus alignment. Personally I find it extremely difficult given my tonearm grub screw setting. The whole tonearm tends to drop like a rock.

regards
 
Hi Omishra,

If I understand your post correctly, you're moving VTA in the >1mm range, a 3mm mat is too wide a range. If you're moving it by that much you'd be way off the mark in your setting. You'd get best results within, under and around an mm. Start at tonearm level, go a little low, go a little higher, try as small a fraction of an mm as you can. Of course if you're changing VTA, then go back to check VTF and your stylus alignment. Personally I find it extremely difficult given my tonearm grub screw setting. The whole tonearm tends to drop like a rock.

regards
Thanks stevieboy! After reading your post, I realized that 1200mk2 tone arm setting allow only 6mm (15mm-21mm cartridge) height change. I can adjust to 0.1mm height difference.

Earlier I was using Ortofon Pro S which supports VTF 3-5 gm with optimal setting 4 gm. My TT supports setting up to max 3.5gm. So VTF was settled at 3 gm. Tone arm height was in accordance with it somewhere 19.5mm cartridge height. After moving to Shure M97x setting was not changed. :p

Looking into another post from Santhosh where in pics the expert was doing adjustment at actual. I mean my Cartridge SHURE M97x height is mentioned 15.6mm. But when I measured with 1.25gm VTF, it was 17mm from stylus tip to cartridge upper surface. :( I rested stylus on the record placed on stationary platter with OEM mat. I took measurement using divider (sharp pointed twin leg apparatus) from geometry box.

For suggested height 15.6mm sound was harsh and noisy. For measured height of 17.0 mm, it is best sound I can get from the player. It is now more musical, open and feels clear with all details in it.

Also I measured overhang (stylus tip 52mm from tonearm end). It was spot on 52mm. I placed graph paper on record with stationary platter with OEM mat. Aligned zero to tonearm end where headshell starts as well as line through center of tonearm-headshell. Held stylus down just before it touches to paper. It was perfect 52mm from the end of tone arm.

Now I can feel the potential of the system, at least 40% difference toward positive side. The record which I felt are noisy are now playing blissfully. :)
Thanks a lot for bringing this issue up for discussion which put me through this exercise.

I used whatever could get me towards accuracy. If you find the methods which I used are rough or ugly then please point out. Suggestions for improvement are most welcome.

Thanks & Regards
 
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I used whatever could get me towards accuracy. If you find the methods which I used are rough or ugly then please point out. Suggestions for improvement are most welcome.

Hi Omishra,

Glad the discussion helped! The best thing that I read about setup tools is that the best one for the job is the one you're comfortable with and one that helps you get results. Graph paper and a divider is very innovative and really suits the purpose I must say, so way to go!

Regarding your measurement of overhang, I never realized that the end of the tonearm always reached the spindle. Cos overhang is stylus past spindle measurement, but with your way, it seems to be that stylus to spindle = stylus to tonearm end. Is this so? Cos then I've learned something new today! I'll check it out tonight with my tonearm.

Regards
 
Regarding your measurement of overhang, I never realized that the end of the tonearm always reached the spindle. Cos overhang is stylus past spindle measurement, but with your way, it seems to be that stylus to spindle = stylus to tonearm end. Is this so? Cos then I've learned something new today! I'll check it out tonight with my tonearm.
Let me clear the doubt. It's like this, please consider tonearm C to P below-

A---B----------C-----------------------------------------------------P

P=pivot at right hand side.
C=end of tonearm/start of headshell

A= stylus tip
B=spindle if it is crossed by headshell length AC


(stylus to spindle, AB) = 15 mm, overhang
(stylus to tonearm end, AC) = 52 mm adjustment ( which includes 15mm of overhang for this TT, may be different for other TT)

I adjusted that AC=52mm. If I remove headshell, tonearm will fell short by 37mm to reach up to spindle. That is distance BC.
 
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This is what I found at forum
Lot's of mis-information on tone-arm height adjustment because of that scale. It's strictly a reference and has no bearing whatsoever on what the correct adjustment should be.

Simple procedure : w/platter stopped and a record (and slip mat if used) in place, lower the tonearm so stylus is in the groove.
Adust the height so that, when looking from the side the tonearm is perfectly parallel to the record surface (ie neither nose up nor nose down.) should look like 2 railroad tracks.

If the arm is nose up, raise the height. Nose down, lower it. Keep in mind that a stylus does not track perpendicular to the record, but at an industry standard of 20 degrees. The only time that angle is maintained is when the tonearm is adjusted correctly. Hope this clears things up. BTW as a point of reference, my test set-up 1200mk III , using an Ortofon slip mat (what else?) reads 1.6.
Additionally, that tracking angle is also dependent on the correct trackig force ...please no pennies, dimes, etc on top of the TA...just creates distortion and increase record wear. Whew, I thing that covers it.
 
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