Vinyl after a long time - what it taught

[firearm12]

Hello friends, i finally ordered a replacement stylus for my broken turntable cartridge and received it two weeks back from amazon global. This made sure I listened to vinyl after a span of around 3 years when my stylus broke down. I am listening to whatever small collection of records I have from last 2 weeks and I feel there are some interesting things it taught me coming over from digital medium. This is also the first time I played vinyl on my relatively new system.

Its not unknown that vinyl sound has a special quality and analog feel which people like. Using the same preamp, amp and speakers as I was using in digital playback, I found that sound with records is much fuller and free of any pressure on ears. That leads to a sense of satisfaction and virtually no continuous doctor like assessment of gear (that happens in digital playback more often) even though resoluton is lower and noisy. It led to a very important factor for me which i want to share, as to it made me understand kind of sound I should be targeting to get rid of the audio doctor inside me. Yes no digital medium can sound like vinyl but the experience gave me a target kind of sound to look for that satisfies my ears, and it also helped keeping amp and speakers out of the equation to solve.

Now i am not saying vinyl is wholly better than digital medium, it has its issues like clocks and pops, wear and tear and maintenance and costs. Does it sound better than digital? I cant say that is the situation always, but it does give me a sense of sound which I should be targetting to tune my digital playback. Generally it was found that digital media playback can sound stressed and hard to ears (even though I have a very good dac) which causes problems in my subconscious mind unknowingly. I highly suspect it maybe because of noisy electricity which affects digital hardware too much. All in all the experience has taught me what to expect from my system and a target sound to look for and eased the audio doctor inside me. Anyone who is in a constant tail chase to improve sound quality of his system, dont know what to target or tune (amps, speakers, cables , dacs etc) should borrow and try to listen to vinyl on his system, maybe it can help the mind to ease up and get a direction to solve the equation.

 

[Suraj75]

Hi, I am not a expert but have found difference in sound when powered with good cables and using power conditioner.

Even I am in the journey to achieve vinyl like sounding using my digital end. FMs and other friends suggested using isolators which will greatly enhance the sound quality, which I need to attempt.

Good luck with your hunt.

 

[nikhilblr]

My experience is that we'll preserved analog media like vinyl and cassettes sound much better and warmer than digital, however it all depends on the condition because records and tapes will deteriorate over time while digital media will not. I personally like analog more but it's a pain to get repairs, spare parts etc. in India

 

[Kannan]

The one biggest difference between analogue and digital medium is the timbre. This is more perceivabe with music production that involves least usage of digitized instruments in the recordings.

 

[firearm12]

The one biggest difference between analogue and digital medium is the timbre. This is more perceivabe with music production that involves least usage of digitized instruments in the recordings.

This leads to another observation. If the music is recorded using analog equipment on analog format ( like in good old years), and if someone took real care in transferring that to digital, its very much enjoyable on digital too and free of digital artefacts. Whereas recent digital era recordings are more prone to digital artefacts. Maybe i am wrong but this is general feel i get. Can it be that more than the playing medium, sound is affected by how its travels through mic to the media.

 

[prem]

firearm12, every medium has its pros and cons. Trying to replicate vinyl sound when listening to your CD and vice versa is not something I would recommend. It’s best to enjoy each medium for its strengths

Since I listen to mostly pre 1985 stuff, I chose vinyl as my medium. If I was primarily into post 90s, I would stick to digital. IME, I find it’s best to stick to the medium in which the original was recorded and mastered. If it’s analogue recording and mastering, then vinyl.

 

[Bloom@83]

This leads to another observation. If the music is recorded using analog equipment on analog format ( like in good old years), and if someone took real care in transferring that to digital, its very much enjoyable on digital too and free of digital artefacts. Whereas recent digital era recordings are more prone to digital artefacts. Maybe i am wrong but this is general feel i get. Can it be that more than the playing medium, sound is affected by how its travels through mic to the media.

You are not wrong. Analog music recorded on analog equipment, mixed and mastered on analog medium like pre 80s Bollywood indeed sounds better because it doesn’t have the harshness , glare and artefacts that compressed digital medium always carries especially in streaming. Here high res doesn’t help.
But if digital recordings were mastered with as much care as some of the well known mastering engineers of the west do - Hoffman or Grundman for eg , they can really sound as good as analog.Mind you I’m not talking about audiophile recordings at all. This is the reason why in general AAD CDs sound better than ADD counterparts and are sought after by dealers and collectors.

 

[arj]

Considering the loudness wars and compression started in the 80s and escalated in the 90s most of the digital recording had that issue and majority of our CD pressings were during that time. Hence all Older vinyls were free from that and many older Original CDs are also great...every reissue just added to the problem .

Some of the newer vinyls , especially the reissues have the same problem

 

[Sean de Silva]

firearm12, every medium has its pros and cons. Trying to replicate vinyl sound when listening to your CD and vice versa is not something I would recommend. It’s best to enjoy each medium for its strengths

Sagacity of the highest order that has been repeated time and again! Amen.

 

[Bloom@83]

firearm12, every medium has its pros and cons. Trying to replicate vinyl sound when listening to your CD and vice versa is not something I would recommend. It’s best to enjoy each medium for its strengths

Since I listen to mostly pre 1985 stuff, I chose vinyl as my medium. If I was primarily into post 90s, I would stick to digital. IME, I find it’s best to stick to the medium in which the original was recorded and mastered. If it’s analogue recording and mastering, then vinyl.

Very true.

At least for classic rock pre 80s , there are multiple CDs available that are very well remastered and are often superior to first pressings which are in any case astronomically priced even for far-from-mint conditions. Most Jazz albums of the fifties sixties are available perfectly mastered CDs. Not the case for vintage Bollywood , unfortunately.

 

[firearm12]

I have also read somewhere that in olden days they used to use big vacuum tubes also in their recording equipment, which is nowhere accessible now days and may be responsible for the good musical recordings of that era.

firearm12, every medium has its pros and cons. Trying to replicate vinyl sound when listening to your CD and vice versa is not something I would recommend. It’s best to enjoy each medium for its strengths

Since I listen to mostly pre 1985 stuff, I chose vinyl as my medium. If I was primarily into post 90s, I would stick to digital. IME, I find it’s best to stick to the medium in which the original was recorded and mastered. If it’s analogue recording and mastering, then vinyl.

Actually I am not looking to replicate digital sound to vinyl sound. What i felt was that the audio doctor engages within myself whenever i listen to a digital source on my system. Same did not happen while listening to vinyls. So i was trying to find the reason and maybe try to implement in digital playback also.

 

[newlash09]

Thank you @arj

Hi @osirees...just my 2 cents...digital playback is cheap and sounds really good., especially if you subscribe to a high quality streaming service like tidal.. ..but to get vinyl to supersede digital audio involves a lot of money . I bet it sounds different. But if that's a itch you have to scratch, then of course go ahead.

 

[Bloom@83]

I would fully agree

The records end up adding more than the rig. And I have been reliably told that the quality of the record is just as important as the quality of TT, tone arm, cart and phono stage. So it is a very deep and long rabbit hole in the end

Yes , but with the big difference being vinyls hugely appreciate in value and will continue to do so in foreseeable future , specially if you have worthy vintage pressings.

 

[newlash09]

Yes , but with the big difference being vinyls hugely appreciate in value and will continue to do so in foreseeable future , specially if you have worthy vintage pressings.

Probably true...I haven't even got home to get started...but I've blown more than I ever expected.....I saw a great deal on a acoustic signature turn table in the UK...so I jumped in, now when I start adding what it took to buy a suitable tone arm, then a cart, then a SUT, then the cables, then the phono stage it all starts adding up. Then factor in the amount that went into buying and importing pristine records. To be honest @Bloom@83 , the day you start feeling guilty about how much you have spent, is the day you are going wrong with this chase

 

[arj]

Probably true...I haven't even got home to get started...but I've blown more than I ever expected.....I saw a great deal on a acoustic signature turn table in the UK...so I jumped in, now when I start adding what it took to buy a suitable tone arm, then a cart, then a SUT, then the cables, then the phono stage it all starts adding up. Then factor in the amount that went into buying and importing pristine records. To be honest @Bloom@83 , the day you start feeling guilty about how much you have spent, is the day you are going wrong with this chase

I hear you now ! Thoda self control and regulation is required

 

[Bloom@83]

Probably true...I haven't even got home to get started...but I've blown more than I ever expected.....I saw a great deal on a acoustic signature turn table in the UK...so I jumped in, now when I start adding what it took to buy a suitable tone arm, then a cart, then a SUT, then the cables, then the phono stage it all starts adding up. Then factor in the amount that went into buying and importing pristine records. To be honest @Bloom@83 , the day you start feeling guilty about how much you have spent, is the day you are going wrong with this chase

All I can say is you should have got something way cheaper yet solid ( something like Project or Rega or a used Technics 1200 ) and played some well pressed vinyls (not necessarily new audiophile ones ) on it , just to get the feel of the analog sound , which to my ears at least sounds so lovingly intimate , lively and exciting.
You could have then spent any amount of $$$$ to upgrade components at a later point if you felt like OR sold it off if you didn’t ,without much of a heartburn.

 

[Lizard King]

I am planning to jump on to Vinyl bandwagon and I read quite a few posts in the forum.
It was enlighting as well as confusing. After much thought I have narrowed down to 2 TT and weirdly both are not in the same budget range.

Either start with basic Denon 29F or spend some more and go with a Project Primary E.

One school of thought was start with basic so Denon 29 but then few of the veterans were saying if the TT is not good you won't enjoy the music so Project Primary E.

Let me know if there is a better one between these two.

Thanks

In my 40 years of being an off and on vinyl enthusiast, this is my take...
1. You have to decide how deep you want to go.
2. Do you already have adequate number of disks.

The middle path here is no good. To get a vinyl player that compares favorably with in terms of clarity, resolution and noise floor of a digital source, you have to spend 3 times as much. And atleast 10 times the cost of the player in vinyl disks. ( which are becoming increasingly rare and expensive in India ). You will also have to spend time in setting up/ periodic fine tuning/ LP cleaning. Budget 1L for player + phono stage + cartridge.

Not game for all that? Get a Denon/ Marantz for 20K, get a dozen of LPs and play them as curiosity. Don't like them? Not much is lost. Like them? After some time when budget permits, take a plunge with a ProJect or Rega or entry level Technics in 70-80 k range and follow through. Get your partner to share the passion, else you will be hard placed to explain the expenditure.

Middle of the road approach like entry level ProJect / Rega don't cut the mustard for me at all. For the money and hassle they deliver very little.

Of course you can take the pre-owned/ vintage route if you have the courage.

I'm not discouraging you. Just sharing my opinion as a 2nd generation vinyl lover and owner of many hundreds of LPs.

And finally. Get them from abroad if you can. India prices are total rip off.

 

[Lizard King]

Yes , but with the big difference being vinyls hugely appreciate in value and will continue to do so in foreseeable future , specially if you have worthy vintage pressings.

Only vinyl pressings that are going to appreciate are vintage, out of print, unopened, high quality pressings of famous musicians. None of the new releases will ever have the fortune. Besides most of the new releases are digitally remastered, taking away the romance. That said, I am myself guilty of splurging a small fortune on them. Cost written off.

 

[Bloom@83]

Only vinyl pressings that are going to appreciate are vintage, out of print, unopened, high quality pressings of famous musicians. None of the new releases will ever have the fortune. Besides most of the new releases are digitally remastered, taking away the romance. That said, I am myself guilty of splurging a small fortune on them. Cost written off.

You are misinformed sir.

Not only the vintage analog pressings , even the newer releases - specially limited anniversary editions command huge prices in used market.

let me give two examples . There are hundreds others :

1. Beatles Mono Boxset - released in 2014 for around 200$. Today you can’t get it for under 1000$ in VG+ condition.

2. Pink Floyd Division Bell 20th anniversary box set. Retailed for around 6500 INR back in 2012. Now discogs lists at least 20,000 INR for decent condition.

Newer reissues from audiophile labels such as Back to Black , MOFI , Analog Productions , Music on Vinyl quickly go out of stock and several of these reissues fetch incredible prices. Eg: Fleetwood Mac Rumours 2Lp 45 RPM Analog Productions set or Brubeck’s Time Out from same label is now priced 3 times it’s retail price and all indications say will increase more.

 

[fLUX]

Only vinyl pressings that are going to appreciate are vintage, out of print, unopened, high quality pressings of famous musicians. None of the new releases will ever have the fortune. Besides most of the new releases are digitally remastered, taking away the romance. That said, I am myself guilty of splurging a small fortune on them. Cost written off.

The newer releases (post 2000 era) seem more hard to find and expensive. I have been looking for quiet a few myself and see prices of 6000 and so forth to get them ( to quote a few examples Rockstar is being sold on Amazon for 10k and Lagaan for 5k)