My hunt for a stereo amp - exploration notes and advice sought..

eddie_fox

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Hi all,

I am currently in the market for a good integrated or separate (pre/power) stereo amplifier to pair with my Harbeth SHL5s. The sources will be analogue signal from the Technics TT through the phono preamp (Yaqin MS-23b) and FLACs through the NuForce DAC (Both these are basic components, which I will upgrade in a bit too). I listen to everything under the sonic sun: Classic rock (a lot), western classical (a lot), Indian classical, Reggae, Motown, Easy listening.....

Well, having described the constants, my current little amplifier is the variable that needs replacing. My amplifier is the well acknowledged (at least in Europe) 'Rega Brio-r'. A compact integrated with a modest 55 Watts per channel at 8 ohms power. I have bee living with this amp and the Harbeths for a while now and have had an enjoyable time, but with a nagging feeling of missing somethings in the combination: Power, better soundstage (wider and deeper) and refinement of details. This is what I am looking for in the replacement.

I started with a budget of 1.5 lakhs and am alright stretching it a bit.

So, my appeal for advice is in helping me find a good match for these wonderful speakers, one which I can enjoy for a good few years to come. Here are my choices (already explored):

1. Rega Elicit-r:
A wonderful step-up from the Brio-r, decent power and well within my budget. I got a 'out-of-the-box' piece for a demo in my home and I listened to it for a while and compared it with some other amps as well. It is very energetic, great rhythm and has the house sound signature which I am used to. It also has a decent MM phono, which I may not use though.

But, when I compared it with the other amps down the list, I found it a bit bright and the bass is a bit loose and was a wee bit boomy at times.

2. NAD M3 master series:
An used piece which I compared alongside the Rega ELicit and found to be not a great match with the speakers. It was lacking the punch and was less involving. It was more refined in the upper notes and carried the bass well though. But the combination did not work for me and is off the list now.

3. Xindak tube pre + SS power (XA3200mk2+xa8550):

Demo piece which I listened to in comparison with the Rega elicit, and realised that the Xindaks were in a different league. Loads of power and head space, easily able to drive the harbeths across the range, great soundstage and imaging and I loved the control of the bass. Definitely a contender.

4. Trigon Exceed integrated (actually listened to the higher version - Epilogue instead):
A visit to 'The listening room' of Mr. Semler revealed he did not have the Exceed, which is also a little over my budget, but we ended up listening to the Epilogue with the Harbeths. These are at least 3 times over my budget, but was promised had the same sound signature as the Exceed, so we went ahead with the audition. The epilogue presented the music beautifully, great refinement, nothing either too bright or too warm. Very neutral and detailed. Loved the soundstage and was impressed with the depth of the stage.

However, slightly worried that it was firstly the Epilogue amplifier and not Exceed, and secondly, the room had great acoustics and am concerned that the amplifier I am interested in will therefore be a complete blind buy.

5. Acousic Portrait - Thyaaga:
The nice people from AP sent over their amplifier yesterday and I set it up with the Harbeths and auditioned it. The amplifier is a tube pre and SS power hybrid with loads of power. But, it began with a disappointing lack of warmth, every type of music played was screaming in our ears and forced us to skip ahead. Also, the remote was a generic one and did not control the volume know well. for example 9'o clock was too low and lacking details, while 10'o was screaming with too much details. I then used my Rega remote and it controlled it better. But, the bass was missing and the highs were too bright throughout.

However, just when we had had enough, AP called and requested we check with their own speaker cables and interconnects. We did and the difference was drastic. Much better, tighter and lower bass, not as lean as before and the overall presentation improved too. So, it must have been either my Rega interconnects or the QED XT40 cables (both relatively new and not burned in). But the combination of my Harbeths and the AP was still fatiguing at anything 10'o and over.

Overall, a good amplifier with loads of power. I urge people to try it. It was not working very well with my speakers, but I may wait for their separates under development and due in a month or so.

In summary, I am still not close to the end of the search, though the Xindaks and Trigon are tempting. Also, there is an Accuphase in the used market which is very attractive, but the price is almost twice my initial budget. Is it worth it? Should I be considering any other options? Any tips on a good deal going anywhere you may know?

Please help, suggest, recommend and advice.
 
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My take Eddie - would be trigon all the way. I owned their tre50 mono's and found them to be superb, neutral, powerful, nuanced, throwing a fantastic stage both laterally and depth wise. Having not heard the exceed I can't say for sure, but I would be very surprised if it does not have the same sonic characteristics as the tre50's, plus I believe the new Trigon int. amps come with built in DAC's (albeit 24/192 only). Lastly they are very well built and support from Jochen (and I assume Trigon) will be great.
Not to mention pricing which will be cheaper than EU or US compared to all the other overpriced product in the Indian market.
Cheers,
Sid
 
Buy what you listen to and like.

Don't assume that siblings will share the same traits

You are doing the right thing by home auditions

Good luck..
 
Excellent advice. If you can listen to all the amps that you are considering in your room and with your speakers - you are all set. There is no better option than that. Btw my recommendation of the trigon is just based on my own simple/unscientific observations (though I owned both the Harbeth's and trigons albeit different model), there are a lot of better and more experienced users/listeners who are our FM's. Do give more weightage to their recommendations/opinions. I am sure they will recommend more brands within your price range that will be a better match to your Harbeths.
Good Luck.
Cheers,
Sid.
 
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Eddie Fox, please see my new thread about right matching the Harbeth Compact 7 with the Clones 55pm. Notably, Compact 7is a very different sounding speaker compared to the Super HL5.

You have liked a couple of amps a lot - my suggestion - stretch your budget and buy them. They may cost as much as small car - but a small car can take you to Richmond Circle in comfort, whereas a music system can take you to heaven!

You appear to like a lot of music - for sure it is worth spending. You compromise now, you will only pine for the sound that you thought you liked later (been there, doing that!).

And unless you know any one of us personally and trust our "sound" judgement, you will only get more confused with our recommendations.

Good luck!

Vivek
 
In Bangalore - look up exposure 3010s2 ( preferably non DAC version )

FM santosh4 had one for same a couple of months back - you mught contact for an audition or FM Optidus has exposure monoblocks..

See how you like them.

Bangalore - also has a Creek dealer - they make some good amps too...

Consider - The Sonneteer Alabaster - but try for an audition ( contact Mr Sid Trehan if he has 1 for audition in Bangalore )

keep updating...

regards
 
As the English saying goes " One man's taste is another man's poison", the same combination may sound different to different persons depending on their perception of expectation or listening taste. So getting the right combination is quite a tricky affair. Let me wish you all the best
 
I have used SHL5 with Unison Research Unico Hybrid integrated amp (65W), Conrad Johnson Pre (ET3) and power CJ LP125sa (125 W RMS) and Prima Luna Prologue Pre and Arcam P1 mono blocks. All worked well with SHL5. Did not find a major difference with these combinations except loudness difference between these amps.

In short a reasonable good 65W+ amp either SS or Tube would drive SHL5 good.
 
Excellent advice. If you can listen to all the amps that you are considering in your room and with your speakers - you are all set. There is no better option than that. Btw my recommendation of the trigon is just based on my own simple/unscientific observations (though I owned both the Harbeth's and trigons albeit different model), there are a lot of better and more experienced users/listeners who are our FM's. Do give more weightage to their recommendations/opinions. I am sure they will recommend more brands within your price range that will be a better match to your Harbeths.
Good Luck.
Cheers,
Sid.


Thanks Sid, I am sure all your advice will help, even if in just revealing options which I had not considered, which I will then try and listen to before deciding.
 
Eddie Fox, please see my new thread about right matching the Harbeth Compact 7 with the Clones 55pm. Notably, Compact 7is a very different sounding speaker compared to the Super HL5.

You have liked a couple of amps a lot - my suggestion - stretch your budget and buy them. They may cost as much as small car - but a small car can take you to Richmond Circle in comfort, whereas a music system can take you to heaven!

You appear to like a lot of music - for sure it is worth spending. You compromise now, you will only pine for the sound that you thought you liked later (been there, doing that!).

And unless you know any one of us personally and trust our "sound" judgement, you will only get more confused with our recommendations.

Good luck!

Vivek



Thanks Vivek, your comments are well appreciated and well taken. I am only looking for options to explore and maybe extra tips/recommendations from users of the same speakers. But, I agree, I will go by my (and wife, of course) response to auditions.
 
In Bangalore - look up exposure 3010s2 ( preferably non DAC version )

FM santosh4 had one for same a couple of months back - you mught contact for an audition or FM Optidus has exposure monoblocks..

See how you like them.

Bangalore - also has a Creek dealer - they make some good amps too...

Consider - The Sonneteer Alabaster - but try for an audition ( contact Mr Sid Trehan if he has 1 for audition in Bangalore )

keep updating...

regards


Thanks MPW, I wil get in touch with FM Santosh4 and have already spoken to Optidus. I will contact Creek dealer and Sid too. Thanks again for the recommendations.

The issue with the used mono blocks (Exposures) is that I have to invest in a matching preamp and the budget will be stretched quite a bit, so i have to think about them.
 
How about a naim pre/power combo. I recently heard naim xs with spendor bookshelf ( compact 7 equivalent) sound was very nice. Liked it better than a 200w musical fidelity with the same speaker. May be nap200 and equivalent pre can be tried
 
An update and a query:

I am planning to audition the Exposure 3010s2D integrated soon and will let you know how it goes. Naim pre+power seems way over my budget, so will not pursue them.

However, I am a bit torn between going the separates routes vis--vis Integrated -
There are a few options available in the used market which are all in the same price range as a new integrated.
For example: I have a choice between the exposure pre (new) + exposure mono power blocks (used) combo, Trigon pre (new) + Trigon mono power blocks (used) and the Trigon integrated. Unfortunately, listening to these combinations will be tricky as they are each from different sellers.

My questions to the gurus here: Will a separate (pre+power) have a sonic advantage over the integrated? Will the mono blocks substantially add to the soundstage (as I have been told)? Will the number of added components add to the variables, making it more complicated to manage (interconnects, power cords, positioning, stands etc..)? Finally, if I prefer a simple setup, should I just go the integrated way (I already have an extenral phono stage and an external DAC)?

Appreciate your advice.
 
An update and a query:


Will a separate (pre+power) have a sonic advantage over the integrated? Will the mono blocks substantially add to the soundstage (as I have been told)? Will the number of added components add to the variables, making it more complicated to manage (interconnects, power cords, positioning, stands etc..)? Finally, if I prefer a simple setup, should I just go the integrated way (I already have an extenral phono stage and an external DAC)?

Appreciate your advice.

One of our FM Nikhil jas a JOB Integrated amp and that takes care of all his other requirements like DAC etc.. there is a thread he had started on this.

But i am not sure if the SHL5 will be driven by the JOB - it may be driven but i dont know.

Companies sell mono blocks and stereo power amps because people perceive sound differently. Otherwise all that the companies would produce would be integrateds.

Maybe you should not lose focus and get confused - a good integrated amp that dances with the SHL5 will do you good.

But should you come across a deal - in Bangalore - where you can audition and if you like to the sound - then go for monos. But limit yourself to - in Bangalore audition..

At a later date you may want to do more with your source so keep that in mind and try and stick to the allocated budget ( unless its not a constraint )

Other FM's may chip in..

regards
 
eddie

i was chatting with an FM today and he mentioned his choice of pre + 2 mono amps because he listens to western classical music which has lot of dynamics / swings in it.

That makes sense but it would be a fallacy to think that all mono power amps will be better than a good integrated.

The monos also come with their baggage - space and clutter.

Now it really depends on your budget, ears and what floats your boat.

Good luck !

and do update this thread with your exposure 3010s2D audition. Hopefully you will get to hear it at home - in your setup.

regards
 
Hello,

I prefer an active pre to a passive one. So if an integrated has an active pre, I would prefer it to separates, all things equal. Less clutter, no additional power cable and interconnect to colour the sound or add to expense. In fact, higher end integrateds also have a dual mono construction, which to an extent mimics what monoblocks do.

All said, I empathize with you. We all go through this and it is important to realize that we are fulfilling a musical need and more, an emotional need! That's what the marketing thrives on.

My suggestion is listen to what you can in Bangalore with someone who has similar sonic sensibility as yours and won't get swayed by hype. Stretch your budget! There is also a Harbeth dealer in Bangalore - may be he has a good match and the right advice.

Buy a well reviewed product - that created its own second hand market when you decide to bail.

Good luck

Vivek
 
From some conversations with Harbeth users, I came to know that croft and LFD amplifiers are a great match with harbeths.
 
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