My intro and request for guidance and advice

[Analogous]

Hi, I am Dev. I live in Bangalore. I am interested in good quality audio and music.

I I have recently upgraded to the Primare i32 integrated amp and Goldenear Triton 3 Towers. The magic I was expecting has not happene. I am feeding hi res (FLAC) using a AK70 DAP and my listening/sitting room is @ 30’x30’. The speakers are about 2’ from the back wall, 6’ apart and slightly toed in. i would be grateful for any suggestions and guidance on ways to improve the SQ.
I live in Bangalore (near Belandur signal and Sarjapur road) If you live nearby, you are most welcome to visit for a chat and chai.
Thanks in advance

 

[rikhav]

Hi,
If you post pictures of the room from different angles and mention what exactly are you missing in the sound it will be easier for members to give right advice

Are you not happy with presentation (imaging , soundstage), or the tonality ?

 

[arunkvivek]

Hello Dev,
Assuming you are placing the speakers in the center of the room width, it looks like you have 4 feet space from speaker to the side wall. With this much space in around the speaker, I doubt if you need a toe-in. If you are sitting more than 10 feet away from the speakers, even a slight toe out would help. Anyways, I am shooting in the dark. You can read thread on FM Prem's JBL positioning. It has detailed and usable pointers on speaker positioning.

 

[Analogous]

Hi Arun,
yes, I have them placed about the center of the room, width wise.i have been moving the speakers around trying to understand how it sounds and at the moment they are very slightly tied in. I haven’t tried toe out. I will do that too.
my listening position is about 6 feet away. I have a carpet on the floor and couple of couches and fabric upholstered chairs in front and to the sides. The sound is good, but...underwhelming? It has crossed my mind that Maybe I am expecting too much from these components and set up.
I will definitely look up the speaker positioning advice from Prem.

Hi Rikhav,
Thanks for responding.
Here are a couple of pictures. I can post more tomorrow in better light. for some reason they are upside down and I can’t figure out how to reorient them here. Apologies.

 

[bornfi]

Hi, I am Dev. I live in Bangalore. I am interested in good quality audio and music.

I I have recently upgraded to the Primare i32 integrated amp and Goldenear Triton 3 Towers. The magic I was expecting has not happene. I am feeding hi res (FLAC) using a AK70 DAP and my listening/sitting room is @ 30’x30’. The speakers are about 2’ from the back wall, 6’ apart and slightly toed in. i would be grateful for any suggestions and guidance on ways to improve the SQ.
I live in Bangalore (near Belandur signal and Sarjapur road) If you live nearby, you are most welcome to visit for a chat and chai.
Thanks in advance

If you could define the magic you were expecting, we are all here to help. Also, as requested above, some photos would help greatly.

 

[Analogous]

Rikhav:
on your question relating to the sound, I was hoping for some difference from the Primare+Triton3 as compared to my previous set up (Peachtree Nova + KEF LS50+ REL Sub)
at the moment I am not sure.

The sound stage is wider than the speaker positions, imaging and separation are clear with clear smooth highs, good mids and room filling base..., but I don’t find listening to this setup as enjoyable as I did with my previous set up. I am thinking I have not set it up properly.

(Am not ready yet to consider that maybe my “upgrade” wasn’t...)

Hi BornfI,
I have tried to explain this above, along with a couple of pictures. (Sorry about the poor quality of pictures and upside down orientatio)
the best I can describe is I am finding this setup’s performance underwhelming. As mentioned above it seems to technically sound (pun intended) but I don’t find myself listening like I used to a month ago when I got this set up.
Goldenears says their ribbon tweeters are specially non fatiguin. The bass is adjustable on the speakers and is well integrated. Hoping I don’t have unrealistic expectations of what this setup can do.

 

[firearm12]

Hello Mr. Dev how are you. I hope you remember me from noida. Nice to know you got new speakers and amp. Moving from bookshelves to floorstanders is always going to be very different experience in terms of sound. I remember when i moved from small bookshelves to floorstanders, i was not able to enjoy as much. Good bookshelves will always be more fast, will image better and have more immediacy in sound than floorstanders. But with time you will get used to the sound. You can try different speaker cables to tame the brightness.

 

[Analogous]

Hello,
Yes, i remember you well. How are you. I still have the LS50 pair! They are a hard act to follow. I am using Chord cables, not too cheap or expensive either. I have a feeling it's the room acoustics that need to be changed. Unfortunately it's our main hall and there is only so much i can do here. I will try with a pair of audioquest cables that i have and see if it makes a good change.
Best wishes

 

[arunkvivek]

Might not be of much help but Detox is a good exercise to do. I stopped listening to HiFi setup for three weeks and forgot what imaging or soundstage was. Once the muscle memory was lost, I turned on HiFi and I suddenly started enjoying music more.

 

[Analogous]

Hi Arun,
I just returned after 2 weeks travel. after two weeks with my IEMs I was looking forward to listening to my home stereo set up again. Maybe a total “cold turkey” is better.
i tried toeing out the speakers as you suggested. It changed the nature of the audio and became wider (soundstage) but also somewhat remote. Putting it back to toe position made it sound more immediate and impactful.
i am using rubber feet on the towers, do you think spikes would make a difference? The floor is made of hard ceramic tile.

 

[Analogous]

Picture

 

[rikhav]

Spikes should make an improvement specially with more precise imaging and tighter bass
Use base plates with spikes so tiles are not damaged

 

[Analogous]

I will try changing to spikes tomorrow.
Try as I might I can not remember how the sound was after a interval of even a minute. I will be relying on instinct and feeling on this A-B ing. Will let you know. Thanks.
I was wondering about the mechanics of how spikes and rubber feet affect acoustic properties of speakers. Are there any websites (with science) on this?

 

[prateekatasniya]

Hi Arun,
I just returned after 2 weeks travel. after two weeks with my IEMs I was looking forward to listening to my home stereo set up again. Maybe a total “cold turkey” is better.
i tried toeing out the speakers as you suggested. It changed the nature of the audio and became wider (soundstage) but also somewhat remote. Putting it back to toe position made it sound more immediate and impactful.
i am using rubber feet on the towers, do you think spikes would make a difference? The floor is made of hard ceramic tile.

Spikes are for carpet flooring..
Rubber is for hard floors.
Your speakers have the correct feet.

 

[rikhav]

Spikes are for carpet flooring..
Rubber is for hard floors.
Your speakers have the correct feet.

There is no set rule
Still I feel spikes will have it's own set of improvement whatever the floor.
But then upon the listener if he likes the final sound or not

 

[Analogous]

Thanks! I will let you know my impressions after I swop them tomorrow.

Browsing the topic online this seems to be a contentious issue...interesting discussions though.

Loudspeakers: Place them on spikes vs damping feet? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Hi, I just wonder what is preferred to put on the bottom of loudspeakers - spikes or damping feet? What results in the best sound quality? For example,

www.avsforum.com

 

[firearm12]

Go for spikes. Rubber affects clarity. Also spikes will raise the speakers affecting the sound in positive way.

 

[Analogous]

Hello Dev,
Assuming you are placing the speakers in the center of the room width, it looks like you have 4 feet space from speaker to the side wall. With this much space in around the speaker, I doubt if you need a toe-in. If you are sitting more than 10 feet away from the speakers, even a slight toe out would help. Anyways, I am shooting in the dark. You can read thread on FM Prem's JBL positioning. It has detailed and usable pointers on speaker positioning.

Hi Arun,
Thanks for sharing Prem’s post. Lots of food for thought there.

Hello, everyone who kindly responded to my request with several practical and helpful suggestions. THANK YOU. It has been a steep learning curve and i feel better informed about so many variables that could impact the SQ and musicality of my set up. I am (in no particular order) considering upgrades to my power supply, audio cables, interconnects. I am aware the difference that i can expect would be in small increments, if at all. I am grateful to Bornfi (nice long chat with great suggestions from Pennsylvania) and Sudeepta who braved the legendary Bangalore traffic and spent a few valuable hours helping tweak my set up. Thanka also to Somnath for helping find suppliers of balanced power units and cable manufacturers who don't charge a bomb. This is a wonderfully passionate and helpful forum. Thanks again. I will update my findings after i get the components. Meanwhile if you have any fresh insights or suggestions for me, please do let me know.

Edit:
Hi everyone,
Sharing this, In case you missed this entertaining read.

Gramophone Dreams #33: Interconnects & Loudspeaker Cables

When I applied for this job, I wrote a pretend review of the Rogue Audio Sphinx integrated amplifier and emailed it to Stephen Mejias, then Stereophile's deputy editor, who printed it and put it on John Atkinson's desk. Before I sent it to Stephen, I showed a rough draft to my business agent...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Deleted member 15865]

I am (in no particular order) considering upgrades to my power supply, audio cables, interconnects. I am aware the difference that i can expect would be in small increments, if at all.

Hi Dev. Each of those experimental changes can potentially lead to improvements in sound, but it can be a long journey. I am still not clear what’s the ‘magic’ you are missing. Is it the openness? The floating of higher frequencies? Or the microtones and hence nuances in the singing? Or the timing (faster bass)? Or the immediacy? Any or all of these (and some other aspects) can be magical to the ears. And depending on which of these you find missing, you could carefully narrow down on the speaker cable, ICs and power supply to try out. I’d also add the jumper cable (from woofer to tweeter if not biwired) as well as equipment isolations to the list. Over the last couple of years I have been through all these, with gradual and sometimes spectacular improvements, finally reaching the point where I feel eager and delighted to put in each CD in the system. Your journey might not be as long, and it may be just one or two of these things that could do the magic for you.

Another factor here could also be your choice of amplifier. The Primare sound is very peculiar. I have tried the A30.2 in my system and found it to be what I’d call a very correct (nothing is really suppressed), but cold sound. It didn’t warm my heart like my (much cheaper) Audiolab 8200A does for me. I missed the emotionality significantly. Also on subsequent reading on the net, I realised that is a characteristic of Primare sound. Some love it, while others, though maintaining high respect for what it does (like I do), don’t go for it. I do not know how your speakers are. But I’ve heard the Primare played with Energy speakers, which were very bright and energetic and they kind of complemented better.

It’s quite possible that the Primare sound is perfect for your listening preference. But may be you could reconfirm that before you embark on the long journey of optimising your rig. By trying your speakers with other comparable amplifiers with different signature if you could borrow them from friends/fellow FMs?

 

[aeroash]

View attachment 43092

I see the problem now, your floorstanders are on the ceiling!