Naim Supernait 3 vs Viren Bakshi's Lyrita Audio 3w 2a3 SET Integrated: FIGHT

[corElement]

The chain
Furutech e tp80
Triode Wire Labs 7+ & 7+ Digital
Allo Shanti LPSU
WIIM Streamer
CHORD Qutest
Bogdan Audio Interconnects with Eichmann Bullets
Naim Supernait 3 / Lyrita Audio 2a3
Supra Ply 3.4
Jamo Concert 8 @ 91db sensitivity

I have the unique opportunity to hear these 2 amps side by side so thought I'd share my observations.

12 years ago I heard the original version of the lyrita audio 2a3 and I loved it back then. Even at just 3 watts it made my concert 8s sound lush and romantic. However this is the new version of the 2a3 where the integrated is 2 stages instead of 3. The key difference I'm noticing is that even though the sound signature is the same as the original, the body of sound, clarity, transparency, control of bass and midbass, and HF extension have noticeably improved. It's lost one shade of that romantic sound but gained better overall performance.

I own a supernait 3, the SN3 is a compact powerhouse. It has a grunt and bite to the sound much better brands like luxman and accuphase do not have. It's a fun amp. Highly transparent, great control, and loads of power. It's not an amp which will win any technical benchmarks however, it IS the type that will win people's hearts.

The SN3 Costs 5400 usd and the lyrita audio 2a3 is 90k INR. The former is from NAIM in the UK and the latter is handmade by our very own Viren Bakshi.

How should I sum it up?

The SN3 feels like a Porsche while the Lyrita 2a3 like a Luxurious Lexus.

In a tangent comparison, a luxman 590 axii is more like a Mercedes M class. I'll be mentioning the luxman 590 axii now and then because I've heard it extensively enough to make an objective comparison.

The SN3 has better transparency than the Lyrita but not as much as an AX590ii. The Lyrita on the other hand has something neither the other two have, a thick rich sound signature.

The SN3 shines with orchestral and electronic music, it has the grunt and speed necessary to give you goosebumps, however the lyrita has a cohesive vocal presentation that can bring tears to one's eyes. The Luxman 590 axii is sits exactly in between both with a little bit of both. However less so, than more of either.

The lyrita 2a3 is the amp you want if you listen to classics like old English or old hindi songs. The SN3 is absolutely unforgiving of poor recordings. The Luxman again sits in between both of them. However give the SN3 better quality recordings and it will truly reward you with a powerful rich and exciting sound.

Honestly the lyrita 2a3 for its price point is one of the best all rounder amplifiers one can get in India. It manages to keep up with much more expensive makes and models however you'll need a speaker that can play at low power. The SN3 is compact doesn't get hot, and has a bold sound solid state amps often lack.

Could I live with the 2a3 for many years? Yes I could
Could I live with the SN3 for many years? If classics were the only music I listen to then No, however luckily I listen to a wide range of things so In my case Yes.

 

[drlowmu]

We have gone from three stages to two, hooray !!

Less, if well done, can be good. My Father used to like to tell me however, that " if "........... is a big word.

The next step, is to directly couple the two stages with pure silver wire, and be sure the two tubes have the requisite gain, that many less-experienced builders are unaware of. ( Recall 400 times ? ) Employ pure silver interstage coupling wire, directly coupled for maximum signal transfer.

Some serious listeners who are particular seek and must go beyond any midrange-centric music presentation . Can we throw in some Ferraris or Lamborghinis........ into this car-type mix?

What is wrong, in ALSO having fabulous lows and highs - as part of your system ??? Is such an amplifier capable to even be produced ?? If so, by whom??

I know genuinely of one person who exists, worldwide, in the entire realm of tubes, my Mentor named Dennis Fraker. There you have it in my opinion. No comparisons .

Jeff

 

[corElement]

After listening to both for a few months, I can effectively say my review stands. The sn3 is higher fidelity but the lyrita 2a3 is cohesive. Some days I want one, other days I want the other. So depending on my mood I alternate. The impressive thing here is the Lyrita 2a3 is being alternated to an amp 6 times it's cost. 6 times! That itself should tell anyone how epic the value is given you have a speaker with 91db sensitivity and over.

 

[corElement]

So just to add on, I was using a Cambridge audio azur 840a v2 for 10 years before these two amps.

And even though that one was rated with much higher wattage and is from the upper tier of legacy cambridge audio, it is simply not in the same league. The CA840av2 sounds ok at lower volumes but even with my easy to drive speakers i had to use it at 75% to hear it properly but at 75% it sounds muddy, it sounds ok at 50%. In comparison the lyrita at 3 watts opens up my speakers at 50% and more than loud enough at 75% and never loses fidelity like the CA840av2 does. Both the naim and the lyrita improve in sound the more the sound is allowed the open up. The CA840a v2 is the opposite, it sounds worse the more you raise the volume. I would say the ca840av2 is comparable to a hyundai suv here, its big and pretty and has all the bells and whistles to do everything but in the end of the day its still a hyundai and not really a real SUV either..

 

[rwnano]

well reviewed brother..well explained.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

Is compatibility also an aspect to consider here? SET amps being more suitable to high sensitivity speakers? High powered solid state amps might control the drivers too much? Though 91 db is not exactly high sensitivity, but kind of there.

 

[corElement]

Is compatibility also an aspect to consider here? SET amps being more suitable to high sensitivity speakers? High powered solid state amps might control the drivers too much? Though 91 db is not exactly high sensitivity, but kind of there.

Definitely, however ratings are often not accurate, Two speakers rated 91db will sometimes have higher or lower demands than the other. Luckily the Concert 8 are very easy to drive and even though they are 91db sensitive and goes down to 3.3 Ohms, I never find virens amp falling short as at 50-70% volume it fully meets my listening requirements. The lack of tight bass sometimes I feel are more about the nature of the 2a3 tube itself.

 

[jenson]

I used to breifly run my jbl 5312e with lyrita 2a3...that amp can drive anything you put in front.

 

[Hari Iyer]

The lack of tight bass sometimes I feel are more about the nature of the 2a3 tube itself.

If bass is less on the 2a3 then it could be because of the damping factor of the amplifier. Try using thicker speaker cables or speaker with higher impedance than 8 ohms.
In my setup the speaker impedance is around 3 ohms and suffer due to this damping factor issue. But bass is okay for my ears. Sensitivity wise my drivers are a bit on the higher side w-95db, M-103dB, T-108dB.

 

[corElement]

I think I'm being misunderstood, so when I said lack of tight bass, I was referring to the linear nature of the 2a3 tube. Not that it does not have it. 2a3 is much more linear than gm70 or 300b. This is an amp that delivers solid performance music thanks to that linearity. This linearity adds to the cohesiveness of vocals. But synth or electronic music is fundamentally different, they are digital tones and not from instruments, the 2a3 is not the best type of tube for that kind of music. a 6v6 or 6005 would be better suited.

However I will say this, the bass on this 2 stage updated 2a3 is much more present and much tighter than the older 3 stage design.

 

[Hari Iyer]

You can shake a room with low end from just a fraction of tube amp watts even if the speakers are just 89dB or even lesser.

What speakers are you referring to here? My 12" Alnico woofer is 95dB sensitivity. My SET amplifier delivers 5 waats at 4 ohms. I have never heard room shaking bass on this. Am I missing something? Only hearing is believing - I think.

 

[shafic]

@ Hari..
Jaipur Doorasth...
Santacruz aajao Maharaj..

 

[Hari Iyer]

Sure. Come to Jaipur.

Hear yourself. Very simple.

Woofer resonance? Mine is around -70hz - my guess - not measured

 

[Hari Iyer]

Measured. Will share. Rear Ported design.

Mine is OB woofer. So low Q is expected in low frequency due to natural roll-off below resonance. Also cone/ surround/ spider break-in is just 60+hrs. Earlier I was EQing low end with analogue graphic equalizer and biamping. Now the woofer is connected directly to tube with a 3.7mH inductor. Roll-off happens around 300hz and 100hz. -6dB is at 50Hz. The suspension is still very stiff even after 1 month of usage. This woofer will take 400-500 hrs for break-in imo. Maybe after this am expecting gain atleast half octave but am not 100% sure. Could not measure driver due to faulty laptop..

 

[viren bakhshi]

I'm going to chime in here because my amp is being talked about.

Thanks, corElement, for your comments on the amp, playing in your system.

Lots of technical things being said, which are ambiguous and untrue. With all low powered amps, especially tube SET amps, system configuration is very important. Of course, the amp will play with any speaker, with limitations. The system really comes to life with speakers with sensitivities higher than 95 dB, with large drivers with light cones. The full dynamics of music come through. The music has great clarity, dynamism, and rich tone. The amp will be transparent, and not limiting.

To get the full dynamic range in music, the source also has to be capable. Often, the limitations are there. And, don't forget vagaries in the recording itself. Very little recorded music has any deep bass (notorious are rock recordings). If it ain't there, it will not come through.

Just as in a complementary music system, the same thinking applies to individual components also. There is no one overriding part - it's the confluence of all components in the design that makes it work. That is what sets a design apart.

Good listening to all.

Viren

 

[shafic]

I'm going to chime in here because my amp is being talked about.

Thanks, corElement, for your comments on the amp, playing in your system.

Lots of technical things being said, which are ambiguous and untrue. With all low powered amps, especially tube SET amps, system configuration is very important. Of course, the amp will play with any speaker, with limitations. The system really comes to life with speakers with sensitivities higher than 95 dB, with large drivers with light cones. The full dynamics of music come through. The music has great clarity, dynamism, and rich tone. The amp will be transparent, and not limiting.

To get the full dynamic range in music, the source also has to be capable. Often, the limitations are there. And, don't forget vagaries in the recording itself. Very little recorded music has any deep bass (notorious are rock recordings). If it ain't there, it will not come through.

Just as in a complementary music system, the same thinking applies to individual components also. There is no one overriding part - it's the confluence of all components in the design that makes it work. That is what sets a design apart.

Good listening to all.

Viren

Excellent reply viren ji..
High sensitivity big drivers with lighter cones ( particularly with original cones ) are the best match for low power tube amps.
I heard lot of praise about your 2A3 amp. Like to buy mono blocks. Will contact you soon.
Regards

 

[Hari Iyer]

Excellent reply viren ji..
High sensitivity big drivers with lighter cones ( particularly with original cones ) are the best match for low power tube amps.
I heard lot of praise about your 2A3 amp. Like to buy mono blocks. Will contact you soon.
Regards

My monoblocks work Excellent with high sensitivity driver - preferably Altec. The challenge with me is that my midrange is 103dB and compression driver is 108dB. The woofer being almost 10dB less - I need to level match them so that bass is not masked by the mids and highs. The best option for me is to use a subwoofer below 100hz rather than try to achieve 30Hz from the tubes. If I had an Altec 515 then it would been very straightforward.

Infact I have reconed my Alnico woofer 4 times to get the right light weight paper, the right spider so that they are atleast 95dB sensitive.

 

[shafic]

My monoblocks work Excellent with high sensitivity driver - preferably Altec. The challenge with me is that my midrange is 103dB and compression driver is 108dB. The woofer being almost 10dB less - I need to level match them so that bass is not masked by the mids and highs. The best option for me is to use a subwoofer below 100hz rather than try to achieve 30Hz from the tubes. If I had an Altec 515 then it would been very straightforward.

Infact I have reconed my Alnico woofer 4 times to get the right light weight paper, the right spider so that they are atleast 95dB sensitive.

Which alnico woofer you have?

 

[Hari Iyer]

Which alnico woofer you have?

Cleveland Audio - vintage

 

[corElement]

I'm going to chime in here because my amp is being talked about.

Thanks, corElement, for your comments on the amp, playing in your system.

Lots of technical things being said, which are ambiguous and untrue. With all low powered amps, especially tube SET amps, system configuration is very important. Of course, the amp will play with any speaker, with limitations. The system really comes to life with speakers with sensitivities higher than 95 dB, with large drivers with light cones. The full dynamics of music come through. The music has great clarity, dynamism, and rich tone. The amp will be transparent, and not limiting.

To get the full dynamic range in music, the source also has to be capable. Often, the limitations are there. And, don't forget vagaries in the recording itself. Very little recorded music has any deep bass (notorious are rock recordings). If it ain't there, it will not come through.

Just as in a complementary music system, the same thinking applies to individual components also. There is no one overriding part - it's the confluence of all components in the design that makes it work. That is what sets a design apart.

Good listening to all.

Viren

Hi Viren sir, You summed it up perfectly. I was not able to articulate it well.

I am loving the amp and hope others in India who enjoy music find this thread helpful because even with 91db speakers this amp brings music to life in a way other much more expensive amps cannot. I've heard other SET and push pull tube amps abroad which almost seem as if they're mimicking solid state, I didn't want that, I wanted to hear classics in a well balanced sound and your 2a3 model hit the bulleye for me, it is a delight to listen to. The very fact that it is giving my Supernait 3 a run for its money even with my 91db not ideal sensitivity is a testament to how true to music it is.