Need to fine tune my Stereo setup

[ajsethi]

I recently picked up a Marantz PM6004 and paired it with Boston Acoustics A25's. Picked up the Marantz UD5005 as the music source. My intent was to pick up a system purely for music (rock, jazz, Dave Matthews, Jack Johnson, Miles...) with a budget +1 system.

While I was not able to test the entire setup together, I did hear some of the components independently (paired with other components) and supplemented that with reviews etc. Now having installed the system at home, I am not completely happy with the setup and would like to try and figure out the weak link in this setup. I am typically looking for a lot of sound energy the moment the guitar strums at the start of any Rock or Jazz track and I find that missing in this set. Is it the speakers? Is it the Amp? or the source?

Any thoughts on the same would be appreciated.

Some additional info-
-the speakers are placed on a fairly solid wooden shelf, the only issue may be that there is not much space behind the speakers and the wall
-cables seem to be good quality DAC cables from HiFiMart

 

[mpw]

try keeping speakers on dedicated stands instead if possible. The tweeters must be at around ear level at your listening position. Normally bookshelves do not sound too good on a wooden base IMO.

if the setup is new.. run it for about 100 hrs ( not necessary continuous ) and see if you like it better.

post a pic.. will be good for the members to see..

mpw

 

[koushik]

The thing that you have mentioned missing is a big ask and I don't think that it can be fixed by small tweaks in the system.

First of all, get a solid metal stand to place the speakers on them. That will help you to play with the speaker placement. Basically you are missing the thumps and lows of guitar. In that case make sure that the speakers are not placed more than 20"(at most 24") above the ground(floor). Anything more will start effecting the low frequencies.

-the speakers are placed on a fairly solid wooden shelf, the only issue may be that there is not much space behind the speakers and the wall

They are rear ported speakers, so give them some air to breath. Around 2ft or so. This will improve image and depth of sound stage.

I presume all the components are brand new(?). I would suggest that let the system burn-in for some 25-50 hours before doing any major upgrade/modification/change in the system.

 

[koushik]

MPW has posted quite a few points similar to mine. It was in-between post, so I didn't realise before posting

 

[ajsethi]

Thanks for your feedback @mpw, @koushik

I have uploaded an image of my setup along with this post. I have all the equipment in my living room in the rack on the right side. The speakers are on a solid wood ledge on either side of the TV on a ledge about 12 inches wide. All the cables go into the hollow space below this ledge.

I would typically listen to music sitting on the 3 seater on the opposite side which would put me at the same height as the speakers. The problem is that the ledge does not allow me to bring the speakers away from the wall and I have no space for floor stands. Would it work to have some sort of wall mounted stands for the speakers?

The setup is about a month old now, hoping the burn in will make a difference too. But I suppose the speaker positions are the more critical factor here.

 

[ajsethi]

Not sure why the image is not showing up from the previous post. I have uploaded the same on image shack. Is there any other way of uploading the image on this forum?

 

[vivek.saikia]

On an entirely different note, if you want to hear the way guitar actually sounds, get yourself (DIY) a Horn speaker. You will be contented for a long time.

You can also try out a transmission line speaker build if you want to get a open and yet deep sound. I have made a fast prototype of a transmission line speaker using just two 2 Inch tang band speakers and I am amused by the sound it produces.

 

[cyber_cat]

Imageshack - stereosetup.jpg

Placement is the culprit here.

Speakers need some space around them and definitely stands.

Can you place them on stands temporarily when you listen and then remove them when not in use at least ?

Cheers.

 

[fran_elite]

You can speak to FM Hari Iyer.He builds excellent TL speakers.I got mine recently.Divine sound.

 

[ajsethi]

The custom speakers seem a big task at the moment, would like to fine tune this system first before starting a new project. The speaker positions seem to be the obvious source of trouble to all. Will try and work out a way of squeezing in two stands. Maybe borrow 2 from a friend first and see how it fits in before I take the plunge.

Curious to know if anyone has heard the PM6004 + Boston A25's personally. Do share your experience on the same if yes!!

Thanks

 

[ajsethi]

Could anyone recommend stands for these speakers and also where I can get them either Online or in Chennai?

 

[koushik]

Contact FM Magma of Soundfoundations. He makes quality stands. Most of the FM uses soundfoundations' stands.

 

[rohitmusic]

I am typically looking for a lot of sound energy the moment the guitar strums at the start of any Rock or Jazz track and I find that missing in this set...

-the speakers are placed on a fairly solid wooden shelf, the only issue may be that there is not much space behind the speakers and the wall

-cables seem to be good quality DAC cables from HiFiMart

Some tweaks worth doing:
1) Already mentioned - speaker placement
a) needs more space behind - you already mentioned it. For testing purpose simply try some temporary fix which can extend the speakers forward. This is just so you get idea of change in sound.

b) Try to form an equilateral triangle between listener and the speakers. Try to move the right speaker further away if will affect sound stage and other parameters.

c) keep tweeter at ear level

2) I read this about speakers "oston's 1-inch Kortec soft dome tweeter deliver smooth, extended high frequency response." Usually metallic tweeters will be very "bright" (I hate using such audiophile terms as they are very subjective - but if it helps ) the soft dome tweeter will produce more softer highs if I get it right.

3) Remove the speaker front cover. Most probably sound will be more open and better.

4) Check your source media. Try playing some test tracks like of Diana Krall - "Temptation" and many others. Do the tweaks using a high quality recording as reference to see maximum difference in tweaks.

5) Once you fix above things you can try some different interconnect and speaker cables. I am not sure if your system will show the change or not but you can try borrowing some cables from friends. Try cables that will make the sound "bright" if you want emphasis on higher frequencies. Usually they are silver coated. Use copper cables for a more "warmer" sound (emphasis on mids/lows)

Some easy tweaks JUST FOR FUN:
1) Try removing all furniture for some time! and keep the room empty. Play the music. Especially the heavy furniture with absorbing materials (cushions/books/etc). Ex: remove the front sofa/table/chair and hear the sound. (from this image reference)
2) Add/subtract items to see if it affects the sound. Let us know if you find it interesting

Some of the above tweaks will work and some wont it is very specific to system and room acoustics.

 

[prepress]

Some easy tweaks JUST FOR FUN:
1) Try removing all furniture for some time! and keep the room empty. Play the music. Especially the heavy furniture with absorbing materials (cushions/books/etc). Ex: remove the front sofa/table/chair and hear the sound. (from this image reference)
2) Add/subtract items to see if it affects the sound. Let us know if you find it interesting .

JUST FOR FUN: In this way, by doing all these things... you will feel tired. THEN just lie down on the sofa and listen your favorite songs in slow volume. Definitely you will notice a huge difference and sweet sound hyeah:

 

[Staxxx]

ajsethi, I believe there is only so much you can expect from the small Boston speakers and the constraints of the room. Although it would be best to put them on stands, it does not look like there is a convenient place to do so. Perhaps it may help to raise the speakers on it's spikes (does it come with threads on the botttom?) and slightly toe in the speakers to your listening position.
By the way, I love the way the room looks...very nice woodwork. Is that an Eames Dar chair in the foreground? Cool!

 

[ajsethi]

Thanks @rohitmusic, @staxx for the useful tips.

I got around to rearranging the furniture and testing the system all weekend (as expected, wife and kids are out of town!!). Once I got the speakers down from the shelf and gave then ample space at the back the sound-stage definitely opened up. I was listening to Jack Johnson, John Butler Trio, Trombone Shorty off various input media (CD, You tube, iTunes music stream etc.) and had quite an enjoyable Sunday morning.

@staxx, yes that is the Eames rocker, a copy anyway. Being the architect, I am in charge of both maintaining the looks AND getting the best sound in my house. Will somehow have to accommodate the speaker stands. Will try and borrow a pair to test the fit first.

Thanks all...

 

[ajsethi]

So maybe the answer is No, but I'll ask anyway. Is there some sort of panel available that I can park behind the speakers that make it APPEAR like there is more space behind than there actually is? Like the equivalent of an Acoustic Mirror of some sort.

 

[Nikhil]

The custom speakers seem a big task at the moment, would like to fine tune this system first before starting a new project. The speaker positions seem to be the obvious source of trouble to all. Will try and work out a way of squeezing in two stands. Maybe borrow 2 from a friend first and see how it fits in before I take the plunge.

I have a similar "small" setup in my bedroom and really there's only so much you can get out of the A25 bookshelfs. My recommendation would be to get a sub (or two) in there. Two subs (if possible) would actually be easier to tame room modes. Despite what purists may say in a small room setting a bit of boost in the LF will help tremendously fill up your sound.

 

[abracher9]

Thanks for your feedback @mpw, @koushik

I have uploaded an image of my setup along with this post. I have all the equipment in my living room in the rack on the right side. The speakers are on a solid wood ledge on either side of the TV on a ledge about 12 inches wide. All the cables go into the hollow space below this ledge.

I would typically listen to music sitting on the 3 seater on the opposite side which would put me at the same height as the speakers. The problem is that the ledge does not allow me to bring the speakers away from the wall and I have no space for floor stands. Would it work to have some sort of wall mounted stands for the speakers?

The setup is about a month old now, hoping the burn in will make a difference too. But I suppose the speaker positions are the more critical factor here.

It seems the speakers have been placed with the layout of the room in mind. To my mind, you need to move the speakers and experiment.

 

[ajsethi]

As it is the Christmas season, my friend popped over and handed me (literally, he was carrying both in his arms somehow), two KEF Q4 floor-standers. His old system was not working and he felt I could put them to good use, so wow... Speakers were setup immediately and we spent the next 4 hours listening to some music at unnecessarily loud volumes, and did this again a few nights later.

I now have the Bostons setup as Speaker A and the KEFs setup as Speaker B to the Marantz PM6004. Does it make technical sense to play both sets together? Or is it better that I listen to them independently as required. (It seems a little silly to have 2 sets of speakers attached to a Stereo amp, but I don't have a choice at the moment as I do not want to give up either set)!!