NOS DAC Project Box FL

[himadri]

Hi
Surfing the net for NOS DACs , came across this low cost one from Project
Box Design by Pro-Ject Audio Systems
Also came upon a review of a Project CDplayer + NOS DAC
Google Translate
Anyone has any experience with either of the two units? Project prices in india are generally competitive with international prices.
Cheers
Himadri

 

[dheerajin]

Hi
Surfing the net for NOS DACs , came across this low cost one from Project
Box Design by Pro-Ject Audio Systems
Also came upon a review of a Project CDplayer + NOS DAC
Google Translate
Anyone has any experience with either of the two units? Project prices in india are generally competitive with international prices.
Cheers
Himadri

You can consider project but people have find below DAC rather good..

WS-302 TA2020 Power amplifier/24bit/192KHZ DAC USB DAC Headphone amp | eBay

its upto you to consider it after looking into technical aspect of both the product..

 

[himadri]

Well
Any NOS Phillips TD 1543T users (Teradak maybe ?) . The Project DAC uses 4 of these.Whats the signature sound?
Cheers

 

[reignofchaos]

Well
Any NOS Phillips TD 1543T users (Teradak maybe ?) . The Project DAC uses 4 of these.Whats the signature sound?
Cheers

My AMR uses philips chips though not the 1543. I've had 1543/1541 in earlier dacs. The sound of these chips is smooth, analog, mellow with zero grain. However please do be aware that they are not detail monsters. If you like the sound of vinyl, you'll like these. All the good philips chips are multibit chips btw.

There are varying level of implementations of Philips chip based dacs from horrible to state of the art. What the better ones mostly gain is better deeper bass, more extension at both ends etc but the house sound of most of them is the same as described above.

 

[himadri]

My AMR uses philips chips though not the 1543. I've had 1543/1541 in earlier dacs. The sound of these chips is smooth, analog, mellow with zero grain. However please do be aware that they are not detail monsters. If you like the sound of vinyl, you'll like these. All the good philips chips are multibit chips btw.

There are varying level of implementations of Philips chip based dacs from horrible to state of the art. What the better ones mostly gain is better deeper bass, more extension at both ends etc but the house sound of most of them is the same as described above.

Thanks ROC
Gives a fair idea of the sound ,(at my age I have started preferring this vinylike sound more).However, considering the price of the DAC ,looks like it is on the lower side of the implementation scale.
cheers

 

[kartick]

Hey Himadri, have a look at this too : DDDAC 1794 NOS DAC - Non Oversampling DAC with PCM1794 - no digital filter - modular design DIY DAC for high resolution audio 192/24 192kHz 24bit

I am using this DAC. Read up and if you are interested, we can delve deeper into how this sounds. Although, the webpage will pretty much tell you everything there is to it.

 

[himadri]

Hey Himadri, have a look at this too : DDDAC 1794 NOS DAC - Non Oversampling DAC with PCM1794 - no digital filter - modular design DIY DAC for high resolution audio 192/24 192kHz 24bit

I am using this DAC. Read up and if you are interested, we can delve deeper into how this sounds. Although, the webpage will pretty much tell you everything there is to it.

Thanks Kartik
My first exposure to Viren's sound was through a digital source comprising of Marantz CD player-douma DAC at his place a few years back.Is it the same DAC?I remember the sound being quite grainless , of course it was a part of the whole chain.
cheers

 

[reignofchaos]

Hey Himadri, have a look at this too : DDDAC 1794 NOS DAC - Non Oversampling DAC with PCM1794 - no digital filter - modular design DIY DAC for high resolution audio 192/24 192kHz 24bit

I am using this DAC. Read up and if you are interested, we can delve deeper into how this sounds. Although, the webpage will pretty much tell you everything there is to it.

That design is flawed from the word go. PCM1794 like all other BB delta sigma designs operates only at 192kHz internally - if data is not presented in its native format, it will oversample internally anyways. I'm not sure why anyone would even try building a NOS dac with a delta sigma chip. Its a futile exercise.

 

[kartick]

Chaos - Have you auditioned the DAC? Futility of the exercise can be commented once you have auditioned the same. To get to know the exact changes or differences that a DAC beings out in the final output, the rest of the chain should be of the same caliber as well.

Second, which other 24/192khz NOS DACs are you familiar with? If you have knowledge on this part, do let us know as well.

As for the default upsampling part, technically, I will seek the explanations required and come back, however, from my listening, I have heard quite clear differences when I play different resolution files. If from what you are claiming, there should never be a difference in the output as it would always be trying to operate at 192khz. Please let us know the technical documents which support your claim. Would be good if something is commented and is backed up with proof.

Let me try to come back with the designer's explanation on this point.

 

[reignofchaos]

Chaos - Have you auditioned the DAC? Futility of the exercise can be commented once you have auditioned the same. To get to know the exact changes or differences that a DAC beings out in the final output, the rest of the chain should be of the same caliber as well.

Second, which other 24/192khz NOS DACs are you familiar with? If you have knowledge on this part, do let us know as well.

As for the default upsampling part, technically, I will seek the explanations required and come back, however, from my listening, I have heard quite clear differences when I play different resolution files. If from what you are claiming, there should never be a difference in the output as it would always be trying to operate at 192khz. Please let us know the technical documents which support your claim. Would be good if something is commented and is backed up with proof.

Let me try to come back with the designer's explanation on this point.

I've auditioned enough PCM1792A DACs to say that it and its lower bins (1796/1794) are useless for serious listening. This is the very same reason why any DAC designer worth his name will never use a Burr Brown delta sigma design. They are sonically compromised compared to the ladder versions like PCM58, PCM63, PCM-1704K.

 

[kartick]

Rather than making it a display of the wealth of your experience with DACs, pass on concrete & useful information for the benefit of all. I have no idea which NOS 1794 DAC have you auditioned. Name ONE. Listen to this implementation before 'futiling' it.

 

[Naturelover]

I've auditioned enough PCM1792A DACs to say that it and its lower bins (1796/1794) are useless for serious listening. This is the very same reason why any DAC designer worth his name will never use a Burr Brown delta sigma design. They are sonically compromised compared to the ladder versions like PCM58, PCM63, PCM-1704K.

It has been oft said that a lot depends upon the implementation. Your comments please specifically for the 179X series.
What would be your opinion of the PCM1795?
Thanks

 

[kartick]

Before using the Doede Douma DAC, I was using the Asus Xonar Essence ST sound card which was an implementation done based on the PCM1792A (https://www.asus.com/in/Sound_Cards/Xonar_Essence_ST/specifications/).

The Douma DAC is based on PCM 1794 which is implemented very differently where he uses 2 DAC chips for getting the stereo sound as he disables the digital filter bit on the DAC. Thereby, implementing it in a NOS mode. However, the Xonar Essence is an oversampling DAC.

When I performed A/B testing, including some friends having to go through bling tests, it was apparent that everyone including me felt that the oversampling implementation presented music in a more aggressive manner, with the top end more pronounced and almost exaggerated. On the other hand the Douma DAC felt mellower, more musical and almost organic sounding than the other DAC. If one just listens to a couple of songs on either DACs and has to form an opinion, I guess one would choose the Xonar as it gives you the feeling that it is more detailed. However, one can only get to know how the Douma DAC performs when one lives with it for a month and understands that it is not that the Douma DAC does not have the details but all it does is that it does not add up peaks in transients unnaturally and moreover which are not present in the recordings themselves. The basic function of the digital filter is to use a proprietary algorithm using which it calculates and approximates the analog wave from the digital content (bits). Whereas a NOS dac does not do that. Hence, I have come to like the NOS implementation more that the OS one. Why should one rely on a DAC manufacturer and be on his mercy as to what algorithm should then use which can make us believe that some information that was not even present in the original content should be heard when playing back. I do not know actually what information was there present in the original recordings for obvious reasons, but then that is why I am more comfortable using an NOS dac which at least for sure does not add up any extra information to the digital content.

On comparing the Douma DAC enabled digital playback vs the vinyl on the fly, I have also found that Douma DAC does the analog conversion better than the Xonar Essence (oversampling DAC).

At the end, there are two things that my knowledge has been limited to sampling very few DACs but all that I have experienced so far, this DAC does a good honest job of analog conversion. I also believe that the NOS vs OS school of thoughts are as contentious as the tube vs solid state, so at the end to each his own.

 

[amit11]

. All the good philips chips are multibit chips btw.

.

Is the philips TDA1543 multibit?

 

[reignofchaos]

Is the philips TDA1543 multibit?

yep

 

[amit11]

yep

Any idea how TDA1543 compares to the chip used in ifi nano ione dac? It said to be burr brown chipset (NOS again). I was not able to find the exact number and model of the chip.
You had mentioned before that some burr brown chips are not at all good for NOS. I have the tda1543 in my dac hence curious.

 

[reignofchaos]

Any idea how TDA1543 compares to the chip used in ifi nano ione dac? It said to be burr brown chipset (NOS again). I was not able to find the exact number and model of the chip.
You had mentioned before that some burr brown chips are not at all good for NOS. I have the tda1543 in my dac hence curious.

I have no idea! I have not heard this ifi DAC so can't comment.