Paradigm Cinema CT 110 with Denon 1911, Onkyo 608 or Yamaha 667????

[arjunayar27]

Hey guys,

Am planning to setup my HT in my living room (20ftx12ft) and i have decided on the following equips:

1. Paradigm CT 110 5.1 speakers (can one suggest anything better at the same price range??)
2. Denon 1911, Onkyo 608 or Yamaha 667 AVR's

I am not keen on tower speakers as space constraint is there at my place.

I have read and tested all the above systems except for the yamaha and though i liked the sound of the denon i wanted to get a final review from the peeps here.

I wished denon had more connectivity and better OSD rather than Linux based one lol. Onkyo has also made me think a lot but cuz of the HDMI handshake issues and the heating prob i am hesitant. Also is it worth getting a system THX certified even when am not buying a THX certified speakers?? Is there any noticeable difference in SQ for a non-audiophile?

Are they any users having no probs with the Onkyo 608 for more than a year??? like on the HDMI issues and overheating probs

How do the yamaha compare to the above in terms of performance and reliabilty??

My usage for this HT shall be 40:40:20 (Music:Movies/TV:Gaming) and my total budget is max 85k.

If there are any better suggestions as to my speakers and AVR selection please let me know.

your opinions are most welcome.

Cheers and hope to get a good response.

 

[Kittu]

Paradigm cinema is a good choice, but for living room setups these sat/sub combo will not be enough .

I used 608 for quite some time and never faced any hdmi handshake or heating issues .

Here is my feeling on AVR

Onkyo : Powerful , Great for movies
Denon : Balanced , warm and neutral for movies and music
Yamaha : Little under powered but pretty good for music

All these tested with my paradigm cinema 110 ct . You can also consider deftech pro cinema 800 package(expensive) .

 

[arjunayar27]

hey thx for ur opinion...

i got 2 tall boy speakers which came along with my Bravia. I was thinking of hooking those and creating a 5.1.

Not sure if its a good idea. I really looking for a good 5.1 speaker set and paradigm was the only one fitting my budget.. wats the cost of deftech speakers u mentioned??

And in blore a lotta ppl chargin a premium for the onkyo as compared to the denon model. is worth paying 5k extra to go for the onkyo?? in international markets denon is mre expensive heh ..

 

[Kittu]

If you are finding the difference is only 5k. I'd say buy here locally.

For paradigm speakers you can contact www.htstore.com . With Sony tallboy speakers and paradigm 5.1 ,you can create 7.1 setup. I'd say musically yamaha is much better compared to Denon and Onkyo.

Deftech 600 and Paradigm cinema 110 are in the same range.

You can audition deftech's at final touch mission road. 080-66492391.

 

[no1lives4ever]

The Onkyo 608 looks nice in terms of specs, but last year when I auditioned it, I found a lot of issues driving my Sony Vaio Z1's HDMI output through that AVR at the Onkyo store in C R Park, Delhi. I could either get the AVR to play audio or pass through HDMI video to a HDMI.

Onkyo AVRs are also known to heat up and this can be an issue in a hot country like ours, unless you plan to use the aircon whenever you use the AVR. You should in any case set up your AVR in an open rack to aid ventilation. Do not plan to put your AVR inside a AV cabinet that has closed sides/back/front.

I do not know if you can set up a audition to check out the Audyssey auto setup, but do not discount this feature. Most HT dealers seem to not like Audyssey for some reason. The Onkyo has Audyssey 2EQ, which is much inferior to the Denon's MultiEQ. On my Denon 1910, the Audyssey auto setup did an excellent job of room setup & EQ. I have not been able to duplicate or better the Audyssey setup using the manual settings.

After using Audyssey MultiEQ on the Denon 1910, I have put this as a "must have" feature in any future AVR purchase.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[avidyarthy]

Ain't saying this as I possess one myself ....

If you have'nt yet bought the discussed speaker system, try get an audition of Wharf Moviestar 70+ with a Pioneer 5 or 9 series AVR. For your room size ... 20x12, if you are contemplating using satellites for this big a room, you might have to look for a system having sufficient 'sound pressure'.

This is where, the Moviestar 70+ 'might' score over other satellites. This is the ONLY satellites to have 4 ohm impedance (nominal). One just needs to be a bit careful in combining it with 'all' AVRs. The selected AVR 'should' have a high current capability.

 

[haisaikat]

I really like the Aud-Eq feature in my denon 1911 and unlike other brand avr owners complain, this feature works like a charm in case of Denon. Moreover Denon is the one which i found gets least heated even after 2/3 hours of usage. Another good point about the denon is the upscaling feature of all sources be it hdmi or non hdmi. Yamaha does not upscale HDMI sources if they are below 1080p. Needless to say that the sound output of the denon is a very good balance between movies and music. Personally i did not find any issues with a text based osd as that is something that i will use only once or twice in an entire two to three hour movie play and most of the time the lcd display on the avr serves the purpose. Lastly on connectivity frontt denon 1811 has 4 hdmi in. Trust me unless your home is full of devices you would never need more than 4 inputs. I have the PS3 on one hdmi, an asus network media player on the second and two still empty which someone can still use for another dedicated BD/DVD player and another one will still be empty. The Dish HD Set top box i have directly connected to the tv and have a toslink cable to avr optical in for cases where i like to have the sound played via AVR. Remember if you connect the Set top box via AVR to the TV you will need to keep the AVR powered on in standby mode all the time which to me is not much sensible.

Lastly there is a protection feature in the denon 1911 which will automatically turn off your avr if it detects that the avr is going into clipping and hence this protection mode protects your speaker and avr from being damaged.

 

[arjunayar27]

hey guys....

congrats to all of us for India winning the WC..

@haisaikat, no1lives4ever : thanks for insightful detailing on the AVR. I have made my mind up that i shall be goin for the denon 1911. it was jst that i dint want to miss out a good equipment like onkyo without checking it out thoroughly. I am in full agreement with both u guys i.e. 4 HDMI's is more than sufficient for me and Audyssey MultiEQ is way better than 2EQ. Also i prefer the USB port for easy access. Though we are all moving forward in technology, USB will still be important for us in India.

@avidyarthy: thanks for ur input. I have heard pioneer is not really a good AVR in terms of performance. I wanted to check out the Wharf Moviestar 70+ but firstly there is no place in bangalore who can audition it for me and secondly i have heard that even though it 4ohm speaker the range and bass is not as good as the Paradigm. If anyone knows a dealer for Wharf Moviestar 70+ kindly please let me knw. Also wat is the cost for it in bangalore???

@kittu1977: I am planning to get my whole kit from Htstore. The person there was very helpful and it was him who suggested to go in for the denon rather than the onkyo. THe first guy i met in bangalore who told me tat and thus started my research. I am gettin denon 1911+Paradigm ct110+denon Ipod deck for 85k. Is that a good deal or shud i negotiate futher??? if u cud give me the tentative pricing for the avr and speaker it wud be really helpful in sealing my deal. I shall go and check out deftech today though i think its more than my budget. Also i am getting the Onkyo 608 and same speakers for 86k. What is ur suggestion??

Anyone can also add to this is welcome..

 

[arjunayar27]

I really like the Aud-Eq feature in my denon 1911 and unlike other brand avr owners complain, this feature works like a charm in case of Denon. Moreover Denon is the one which i found gets least heated even after 2/3 hours of usage. Another good point about the denon is the upscaling feature of all sources be it hdmi or non hdmi. Yamaha does not upscale HDMI sources if they are below 1080p. Needless to say that the sound output of the denon is a very good balance between movies and music. Personally i did not find any issues with a text based osd as that is something that i will use only once or twice in an entire two to three hour movie play and most of the time the lcd display on the avr serves the purpose. Lastly on connectivity frontt denon 1811 has 4 hdmi in. Trust me unless your home is full of devices you would never need more than 4 inputs. I have the PS3 on one hdmi, an asus network media player on the second and two still empty which someone can still use for another dedicated BD/DVD player and another one will still be empty. The Dish HD Set top box i have directly connected to the tv and have a toslink cable to avr optical in for cases where i like to have the sound played via AVR. Remember if you connect the Set top box via AVR to the TV you will need to keep the AVR powered on in standby mode all the time which to me is not much sensible.

Lastly there is a protection feature in the denon 1911 which will automatically turn off your avr if it detects that the avr is going into clipping and hence this protection mode protects your speaker and avr from being damaged.

hi thanks for the info.. jst wanted to know ur opinion on yamaha 667 ?? did u compare tat and denon?? if so hw was the results... and also do u have to use OSD (d dull screen) often during movie or music playback... another thing was hw are u able to connect your laptop to the denon if u had to?? are there any issues... and do u feel there is any significant diff in the upscaling and upconversion of the denon with respect to other avr's??

 

[alexanish]

What is the warranty that Deonon offer, I mean 1 year of more? How is the after sale support? I hear from most people that Onkyo has a much better after sale support. I myself own TX-SR608 bought from US. I haven't heard the Denon 1911 so can't really compare. But 608 is good for movies if not that great for music. I said may not be great not bad.

 

[alexanish]

What is the last price of 1911 alone, after discounts? I heard the indicative price is somewhere around 40K. Who is selling the at the best price in Bangalore? Is it Griha vaibhava in Jayanagar or Modern world or some one else?

 

[arjunayar27]

What is the warranty that Deonon offer, I mean 1 year of more? How is the after sale support? I hear from most people that Onkyo has a much better after sale support. I myself own TX-SR608 bought from US. I haven't heard the Denon 1911 so can't really compare. But 608 is good for movies if not that great for music. I said may not be great not bad.

am getting 2 year warranty for the denon.. the after sale support of denon is better dan onkyo in bangalore.. im looking for a balanced avr.. for movies, music and games... thanks for ur input.. btw r u facing any over heating issues or hdmi handshake issues... or upscaling problems from ur 480/576p resolutions??

 

[arjunayar27]

What is the last price of 1911 alone, after discounts? I heard the indicative price is somewhere around 40K. Who is selling the at the best price in Bangalore? Is it Griha vaibhava in Jayanagar or Modern world or some one else?

its 38k after discount with bill and warranty... this is from some one else.. i dont trust the modern world people.. and duno abt griha shop.. btw pls tell hw mch did u pay for ur wharfs?? did u pick them in bangalore?? and wat avr did u audition b4 u picked up the onkyo

 

[alexanish]

good to hear the warranty part because that's were most companies fail.

You said balanced AVR for movies and music. Did you compare both 608 and 1911 for movies? The only remark I have heard about 1911 is that it doesn't make that great movie experience as 608. Yeah, but 608 also has a blame on music compared to 1911. So let's say it has more balance. But still would like to hear about your experience in comparison on both movies and music or both AVRs.
One more question, 608 has Bi-amp facility. We can use the Front high channels to do the biamping for L+R. How is it done on 1911?
OK. The heat issue. I don't know if its an issue. But yes as with any electronics heat is not good and and 608 does makes a good amount of heat. So I had to put my AVR outside my rack to get enough air went. But never gave any issues on hdmi or handshake nor that I noticed any resolution issue on upscaling. Well, there may be issues in upscaling but hard to notice for guyz like me. But there are other audiophile sites who has veterans quoting nothing bad about overheating issue with 608. Some of them claim they run it for hours.
Who is offering 38K? Is there still be anyone offering better price in Bangalore.
I don't remember the exact pricing of Wharfs. But some where near 33.5K. During my AVR hunt I did not do any audition at all I just read the reviews and asked my cousin to bring it. BTW, I am right now thinking about an upgrade on the AVR. Though 608 is good, I am planning to go for Marantz or Denon (higher than 1911). That's reason why I have so many questions for you ;-)
But believe me there is nothing much to blame on 608's capabilities other than of course the music'ability.

 

[Kittu]

Anish,

Thats a quick upgrade thought. May be, you have to give your gear sometime (burn-in/break-in) . Try borrow some good cables from any one and see if that improves any performance.

Or take your 9.2s to a store and audition them with Denon/Yamaha/Marantz . Try to memorize the sound of Onkyo, otherwise it wont be of much help .

Talk to lokesh , htstore .

 

[arjunayar27]

good to hear the warranty part because that's were most companies fail.

You said balanced AVR for movies and music. Did you compare both 608 and 1911 for movies? The only remark I have heard about 1911 is that it doesn't make that great movie experience as 608. Yeah, but 608 also has a blame on music compared to 1911. So let's say it has more balance. But still would like to hear about your experience in comparison on both movies and music or both AVRs.
One more question, 608 has Bi-amp facility. We can use the Front high channels to do the biamping for L+R. How is it done on 1911?
OK. The heat issue. I don't know if its an issue. But yes as with any electronics heat is not good and and 608 does makes a good amount of heat. So I had to put my AVR outside my rack to get enough air went. But never gave any issues on hdmi or handshake nor that I noticed any resolution issue on upscaling. Well, there may be issues in upscaling but hard to notice for guyz like me. But there are other audiophile sites who has veterans quoting nothing bad about overheating issue with 608. Some of them claim they run it for hours.
Who is offering 38K? Is there still be anyone offering better price in Bangalore.
I don't remember the exact pricing of Wharfs. But some where near 33.5K. During my AVR hunt I did not do any audition at all I just read the reviews and asked my cousin to bring it. BTW, I am right now thinking about an upgrade on the AVR. Though 608 is good, I am planning to go for Marantz or Denon (higher than 1911). That's reason why I have so many questions for you ;-)
But believe me there is nothing much to blame on 608's capabilities other than of course the music'ability.

Denon has also Bi Amp capability like the onkyo for the front speakers... u can speak to lokesh like kittu has mentioned.. if u looking for a model above the 608 suggest u go in for a denon.. the higher end models of denon are outta of the world performance wise unlike the mid range models...

wat i meant by handshake issues was that ur laptop,projector stuff like dat dont get connected to the onkyo easily... it has some display issues.. with regard to tv viewing and dvd's there shudnt be any probs.. as for the heating i dnt have so mch place to keep my avr so am looking for one who wont get very hot after hours of usage..

i have heard both th 608 and 1911.. found the 608 more boomy and had way more effects.. the 1911 was mch warmer.. and is good if u have a drapes, curtains and carpets... for brighter enviroment the yamaha will be a better choice bt then again if u gt the dough look at marantz n the denon high end models..

 

[alexanish]

Ah you caught me Kittu... I have been thinking a little laud here .... :lol:

About the break-in, I am not so sure. I might have played about say 80 hours or 100 hours. But certainly the 9.2 is sounding way better than it used to be and I am not sure if it's just because of the 9.2's break-in or AVR break-in played together.

But your suggestion is good. I should try that. But has he got Marantz? I have a high respect for Marantz, probably because of the reviews than anything real experience.

@arjunayar27 I am not sure about the handshake then, as I hardly use anything other than my BD player.

Did you get a chance to compare 608 and 1911 on the same speaker set? Because boominess can probably because of the speaker/woofer config. But you said 'way more effects' is the reason why people have high regard for 608 on it's movie experience.

I may sound stupid at this point of conversation but still, What is the term Warm stands for in audio? More highs or more lows? Also, bright? I had the impression that brightness is something related to highs. Can some one explain?

 

[Kittu]

Last time I checked he had a SR 5005, not sure if that is sold. You upgrade AVR now, later you may feel the speakers are underpowered and will have to look for ugprading speakers too.

 

[arjunayar27]

Ah you caught me Kittu... I have been thinking a little laud here .... :lol:

About the break-in, I am not so sure. I might have played about say 80 hours or 100 hours. But certainly the 9.2 is sounding way better than it used to be and I am not sure if it's just because of the 9.2's break-in or AVR break-in played together.

But your suggestion is good. I should try that. But has he got Marantz? I have a high respect for Marantz, probably because of the reviews than anything real experience.

@arjunayar27 I am not sure about the handshake then, as I hardly use anything other than my BD player.

Did you get a chance to compare 608 and 1911 on the same speaker set? Because boominess can probably because of the speaker/woofer config. But you said 'way more effects' is the reason why people have high regard for 608 on it's movie experience.

I may sound stupid at this point of conversation but still, What is the term Warm stands for in audio? More highs or more lows? Also, bright? I had the impression that brightness is something related to highs. Can some one explain?

i checked both the 608 and 1911 on HK speakers.. i like the movie experience of the 608 but that was a Bluray quality film.. so far i am only used to watchin downloaded movies off the net which come at 480p/576p.. so i need a good video processor..and also i dont plan to get a thx certified speaker so no point for goin to onkyo nw.. maybe later...

as for ur query... in layman terms warm usually refers to an emphasis on mid or lower frequencies, or bass. brights refers to an emphasis on the high frequencies, or treble.
Warm sound tends to be defined more musical. Less fatigue etc.
Amp / speaker combos can be very difficult to listen to for any lenth of time.
Tweeters that are "bright" tend to harsh and over powering to the rest of the music range.
"Warm" often tends to related to the Amp.
Its all relative and subjective. Its almost impossible to give you a definitive answer.Arcam & denon amps for example are usually "warm" to make listening more pleasant and unfatiguing during long periods.
Warm is nice , but not in the lower bass , where its sounds better hard and precise.. hope i could answer u question...

 

[alexanish]

I don't think I am worried about the power part. Because I am sure even 1911 will be driving the 9.2 the same way as 608 does and mind it after 75 it goes to safe mode. More over you won't go beyond 75 in my 12x13 feet room. I have no question on 608's ability to movies. But if I have any worry that has to do with music. I found lately that my love for music has increased substantially ;-) Either it's FM or DVDs or audio CDs. That's were I see my heart want more and (is) 608 failing really bad in music reproduction? Ah am really perplexed!