Plasma pic looks like faded colors

babu21

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Plasma looks like a faded pics

After reading a lot about plasma tvs, i went to couple of stores in chennai to check on them. My requirement is mostly tv and occassional gaming.

I saw panasonic and LG plasma full hd models in the size of 40.

In both the showrooms i observed that there is a striking difference in the picture compared to the lcd tv , placed next to the plasma models. The colors in plama luks clearly faded!!!!

the lighting is that of a decently lit showroom .

I couldn't comprehend this. i was expecting plasma with its higher contrast ratio shud represent brighter pic.

Both the showroom guys told , plasma will deliver this kind of pics only and suggested to go for the brightest and more colorful display in lcd.

is it the case with plasmas?
 
Re: Plasma looks like a faded pics

^ Yes , the store guys are absolutely correct so buy the lCD cause it is the best ever there is.:thumbsup:

BTW how did you manage to find plasma "in the size of 40."?

"i was expecting plasma with its higher contrast ratio shud represent brighter pic" -- Really? higher contrast ratio means brighter picture? Hmm...that is news to me.

Few examples of how faded a plasma tv's color can be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXIoqB2C1lI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrsCu9XfLMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmNBPi2JFow
 
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After reading a lot about plasma tvs, i went to couple of stores in chennai to check on them. My requirement is mostly tv and occassional gaming.

I saw panasonic and LG plasma full hd models in the size of 40.

In both the showrooms i observed that there is a striking difference in the picture compared to the lcd tv , placed next to the plasma models. The colors in plama luks clearly faded!!!!

the lighting is that of a decently lit showroom .

I couldn't comprehend this. i was expecting plasma with its higher contrast ratio shud represent brighter pic.

Both the showroom guys told , plasma will deliver this kind of pics only and suggested to go for the brightest and more colorful display in lcd.

is it the case with plasmas?

Jai Hind babu ji
Firstly I think you have got some facts wrong. First off there are no 40" size plasmas in Indian market. The smallest size is 42". Second, LG does not have Full HD plasma model in 42". The Panasonic you saw must have been V20.... there is no other 42" Full HD plasma in Indian market to date.

Next point, you have made a correct observation. Your eyes have not deceived you. Plasma looks dull, washed out, faded, etc in comparision to LCD/LED in a brightly lit showroom. That is because the latter are typically brighter. But in a home environment where the lights are not so garishly bright, the plasma looks great. The plasma will show its true colours in a semi-dark to completely darkened room. In this same environment an LCD/LED may appear to be excessively bright, even despite turning down the backlight and contrast. Hence a plasma will be more suited to you if you are a movie buff, who likes to watch movies in theatre-like conditions.

Plasma also has what is know as image retention. Even though image retention is temporary, it may become permanent (then called burn-in) IF the set is abused. Most likely you will not abuse your set, but the mere thought of permanent image retention puts off most people from buying plasmas.

Plasma has higher contrast ratio, not higher brightness. Contrast ratio implies the difference or contrast between the blackest black and the whitest white. So higher contrast ratio does not necessarily imply brighter picture. It simply means that it will give your picture more depth.

Both the showroom guys are idiots only. They, or the store they work for, are getting higher margins on LCD/LED so they will naturally tell you to go for LCD/LED. Defy them to switch off lights completely (they will never do this) and see what that brightest LCD does to your eyes. But again, if majority of viewing is going to be in daytime, that too cable, then go for LCD. For heavy gaming also you might want to stick with LCD because there is no issue of image retention. But if you are a movie buff then I think plasma is much better.
 
Shredder told all the pros and cons of plasma.....ball is in ur court to buy plasma or lcd....
 
My living room will have decent sun light brightness during day time.
I guess this leaves me with only lcd ?
after reading all the reviews am under conclusion that lcd picture in a 40'' tv will be less real and luks like a constructed image with not so sharp pic. it luks more like a thich image painted over ...
 
All displays in the store are setup in "Torch" mode, that is highest brightness and colors to attract innocent buyers who merely go by their eye. In reality no one would use "Torch" setup in their houses.
In torch mode the LCD's will outdo the Plasma's as they are brighter. In outdoors and showrooms LCD's cant be touched by Plasma's. But in home environment Plasma's have higher contrast, lower pixelation in motion due to faster reponse time (critical when watching sports matches), and generally better colors. So picture quality wise they make a compelling case.
On the other hand LCD's are brighter, consume less electricity, dont suffer from burn-in and have higher market share and longer life.
Now if you have enough money to cough up for an LCD than I would suggest go for it, else Plasma's do make a compelling case, spclly since the 2011 models of LCD would have near HTPC funcitonality and backlit LED.
 
Well the reason they look dull is that the glare washes out the image and the the brightness of lcd is kept pretty high which defeats most if not all of the glare.

Even if the picture or the image shown is black ,your eyes will see deeper black in lcd under ambient light due to their coatings especially some of the samsung lcds(despite being glossy) and sony lcds like HX800.They will look blacker then even the matte screen ones and will also reduce the reflections.

The matte screen lcds reduce the reflections but diffuse the lightly evenly.
look at the below image on the left is a panasonic matte screen lcd with IPS panel and on the right is a (prototype) local dimming IPS lcd but has a glossy screen like the ones found in certain lg models and Sony NX range.


advanced-ips-prototype-ceatec09_0306.jpg


Note: the camera shot favours the the lcd on the right since the lcd on the left is way off axis,so in reality its blacks would have been deeper then whats shown in the picture.

Another way a to fool the eyes is if a image consists of both bright and dark content at the same time,the perceived blacks will look quite black.
 
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@shredder has pretty much covered off everything you wanted to know about the situation. Usually store settings are some of the worst you can think of. Also their ambience is no where close to homes. Check in friends house if you get a chance.
 
Bottomline : Unless you're going for those super expensive Full LED backlit LCD's with local dimming, the PQ of a Plasma cannot be matched...yet. That might change when large screen OLED TV's come out, but they wont be affordable before 2016. I have also noticed that in large screen sizes, (47-50") Plasma render standard SD broadcast better than LCDs. The image quality of conventional LCD's and edge lit LEDs can be best described as "plasticky". Honestly, for regular TV CRT is still the best choice. but then that would defeat the entire purpose of this thread :)
 
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Re: Plasma looks like a faded pics

the colours on a plasma are much more natural when compared to lcds. contrast on an lcd will be more. if youre looking for bright go with the lcd. from experience, in the long run the plasma will be more pleasurable to watch though
 
Re: Plasma looks like a faded pics

Plenty of threads already running , please use the search option and go through the same.
 
Well its only the HD ready plasma that do better in SD not the FHD ones which has to upscale just as much as a FHD lcd since all 40" and above lcds in the market are FHD.

Not all plasmas have blacks like the V/VT series of panasonic.
Again not all lcd have deep blacks ,the ones with IPS panel like ones from lg,panasonic and some philips have significantly poor blacks.

So you can't say one is superior both have their pros and cons,which have been extensively discussed/debated and it will never end.So one has to chooses whats best for them.
The fact is majority of the people buy the more expensive lcds and there are many reasons as to why people don't buy plasmas,but all have eyes and they do compare( including old people,woman) .Some walk away with a plasma while majority walk away with a lcd.
 
No LCD no matter local dimming, Edge lit , IPS, SPVA U2VA can have real time usage black levels matching the top of the line 2010 LG or Samsung or Panasonic... period.

You pay approx 1 lakh or less to get a top of the line 50" plasma and to nearly match that you need to spend double or more on LCD.

Within the plasma's Kuro has the best black levels followed by the VT25 followed by the Samsung C7000,8000 series and followed by the LG PX 950 series.

OLED will be the real plasma killer in-terms of pic depth, contrast and black levels. OLED will beat LCD in sharpness but yet to beat the brightness that LCD's can produce.

LCD's are marketed more aggressively than plasma's and most of the consumers don't know if plasma even exists(including my dad) so they just think more expensive means more quality(this is one of the major reasons for people buying SONY LCD from SONY world) so they buy LCD.In a bright lit showroom showing HD content LCD will obviously look good and thats where the main deciding judgement is done.It is just like the difference between a surround home theater and stereo market where the former is most people think as the benchmark in audio quality and we all know it aint true.
 
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The best of the panasonic do indeed have deeper blacks under certain conditions, but by how much.
Well the latest reviews from HDTVTEST.co.uk of the Panasonic 46VT20B its blacks are 0.013cd/m2 under pitch dark conditions and with a complete blank screen,but under ANSI checkboard pattern its 0.044cd/m2

A samsung C6900 plasma shows a blacks ranging from 0.12 cd/m2 (24p/50hz), 0.07 cd/m2 (60hz) full screen black but in ANSI its 0.15 cd/m2 (24p/50hz), 0.09 cd/m2 (60hz)under pitch dark conditions.

Lg PK590 blacks 0.08 to 0.086 cd/m2 full screen black under pitch dark conditions.

A typical similar priced midrange 40" Sony EX70x /samsung lcd with SPVA or UV2A based edge-lit panel will show about 0.03cd/m2 to 0.04 cd/m2.
A toshiba lcd with a OEM SPVA panel shows 0.06 cd/m2 ANSI.

A samsung CCFL lcd C580 shows a full screen black of 0.02Cd/m2 and a ANSI black of 0.03cd/m2 .The editor was so impressed that he got himself a new samsung lcd.

From the objective data its shows us that lcd are pretty much on par and in some cases better.

The 32" el cheapo Sony EX400 available for as low 27k in grey market shows a black level of 0.06 cd/m2 .with words written as below
Indeed, when used in a brighter room, the Sony KDL32EX403U fought the ambient light brilliantly and displayed deep blacks, instead of turning grey like a Plasma display would. (Of course, the tables are turned when viewing in the dark)

A quote from hometheatre mag panel shootout from a plasma G10 and a lcd W5100
While the plasma still had a better pic- ture off axis, the Sonys color fidelity was far more natural and consistent, which is entirely inconsistent with my overall experience with LCDs. To top it off, turning on even a little room light killed the plasma, while the Sony still looked awesome. Im a kook who prioritizes nighttime movie watching, but the Sony had the better blacks with the lights out, too. So my little world was really turned upside down. Im a plasma guy. I own a plasma. I love my plasma! But this Sony was the best of the bunch."

So like i said buy a tv thats suits is or hers viewing conditions,those who have significant ambient light coming from the front of the tv or towards the viewers left or right a lcd will show better blacks.
If one has a light source/windows behind the tv then plasma screen won't turn grey.But if the walls are of light color and reflect back at the tv the blacks will take a toll.
 
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Dont know how hdtvtest.co.uk arrived at those measurements (specially the measurements on LCD black level ), not even sure about the reviewer's credibility and if he was sent a bad plasma panel or what lighting conditions.



here is a credible review from someone who knows what he is doing:

Chad's(THX/ISF calibrator) ranking.

reviews

Review: Samsung PN50C7000 plasma
Using the same Milori Trichromat meter as always with plasmas and covering the screen with a black blanket to block any ambient light, black level read between .006 and .007 fL, and checkerboard contrast measured around 3050:1.

The above measurements are again not with the most recent version of the firmware.

Review: Panasonic TC-P65VT25 plasma

I have since redone the measurements on a 54VT25, using the same methods and meter, and obtained better results: black measured around .005 fL and checkerboard contrast was 2125:1, both welcome improvements and probably more typical of most VT25s. Checkerboard (modified ANSI) contrast measured the same in day and night mode.
I have looked for signs of floating blacks in 2.40:1 movies



Apart from this I personally have LCD's from Sony, Philips and plasma from Samsung and Panasonic so i know which looks better and which has better blacks, i am not sure if whoever pasting here has that same kind of privilege of comparing a properly calibrated plasma and LCD side by side before commenting or if they just comment on basis of reading from the internet or looking at LCD's and Plasma in different bright lit showrooms.

Although i read many reviews including Chad's i don't buy anything based upon that.

From what i have in my home the Philips lcd has the worst black levels(since it is the oldest) followed closely by the Sony(it is a 2010 model).Both the plasma's (Samsung and Panasonic) are ages ahead in terms of displaying real time black levels.

I can safely say that Most LCD's cant show black and its that simple, only CRT,Plasma,OLED can show blacks since they come from similar technology and each evolved from the other.
 
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Well its is what it is HDTVtest.co.uk is one of the most respected sites.
The measurements varies from different instruments used.HDTVTEST uk tests the uk 220v pal models.
0.006 fl (Foot Lambards) equal to 0.02 cd/m2(Candela Per Square Meter ) which is about the same as HDtvtest uk measument.

Hmm these tvs have been properly calibrated by hdtv co.uk they have quite expensive stuff to calibrate it.

Lastly to some new comers and to those who don't know . One need to know some individuals here have admitted to hate certain companies and dislike certain tech,so no idea how far their claims or findings are true.
 
For example... your prejudice against LG???:D

I only said they have inferior contrast and image processing espically the trumotion isn't good,i am not the only one to find this various other members have acknowledged the same in this and techenclave forums.
 
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