Power plant PS AUDIO

[Enkay78]

Love or hate it, ASR do brings such unclothing of emperors clothes.

Audiophooery should be obnoxious.

PS Audio PowerPlant 12 Review (AC Regenerator)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio PowerPlant 12 (P12) AC regenerator. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $5,499. PS Audio nails the industrial design of the unit. I really like the casework as well as the look of the various graphical meters as you see above...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But yes these products are there because there is a market and clever persuasion through peer conditioning.

 

[aeroash]

Paul McGowan has a book called 99% True. The other 1% are his Power Conditioners and Power Cables.

Disclaimer: I have not read the book, and i don't intend to. Thanks.

 

[mbhangui]

Love or hate it, ASR do brings such unclothing of emperors clothes.

Audiophooery should be obnoxious.

PS Audio PowerPlant 12 Review (AC Regenerator)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio PowerPlant 12 (P12) AC regenerator. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $5,499. PS Audio nails the industrial design of the unit. I really like the casework as well as the look of the various graphical meters as you see above...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But yes these products are there because there is a market and clever persuasion through peer conditioning.

What did you expect from a company that makes part of its living from selling 1000 $ power cables?

Now you are going to draw the ire of folk/folks who have paid money for this power plant to make their AC worse than what is supplied by the power company.

Paul McGowan has a book called 99% True. The other 1% are his Power Conditioners and Power Cables.

Disclaimer: I have not read the book, and i don't intend to. Thanks.

For the genesis of this idea, here's a quote from Paul McGowan's book, 99% True, "Today, power conditioners are a dime a dozen—everything from Walmart surge protectors and computer power-backup boxes to sophisticated models costing many thousands of dollars, used by laboratories and audiophiles. But in 1997 there was almost nothing designed for high-end audio gear. That vacuum looked to me like an opportunity—I could start at the very beginning of the equipment chain, design and build a new box that would regenerate AC power, and market and sell it to audiophiles."

From the Review

"Sine-wave-perfect?" Nothing perfect exists in real life so that for sure is a stretch. How much we will see in measurements.

This is exactly the reason I don't connect any of my equipment to my Pure Sine Wave UPS. You cannot make a better sine wave using electronics than a governor controlled turbine powered by steam, water, wind - basically the electricity that comes from your power company. Even nuclear power plants heat water to run turbines.

I power only my PC, raspberry PI, one external hard disk and allo usbridge using UPS. Any equipment that generates audio is connected to stabilized raw power. And power supply is very stable in my area (other than a constant high voltage).

 

[Bloom@83]

From the Review

This is exactly the reason I don't connect any of my equipment to my Pure Sine Wave UPS. You cannot make a better sine wave using electronics than a governor controlled turbine powered by steam, water, wind - basically the electricity that comes from your power company. Even nuclear power plants heat water to run turbines.

I power only my PC, raspberry PI, one external hard disk and allo usbridge using UPS. Any equipment that generates audio is connected to stabilized raw power. And power supply is very stable in my area (other than a constant high voltage).

How will audiophiles hear the fourth clarinet in the fifth row of Vienna Philharmonic or the breath intake and nasal congestion of the soprano if all that dirty hydroelectric power messes up their systems ?

 

[mbhangui]

I had my day today with this comment from a user, which exactly describes the gullibility of users who buy such things to improve their music playback.

I get that washing my dishes multiple times won’t make my food taste better, but if I first plug my oven into a PS Audio Power Plant 12, will it make my food taste better?

 

[Enkay78]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry even in this forum....when trying to read the multiple threads of cables/power conditioners.

 

[insane79]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry even in this forum....when trying to read the multiple threads of cables/power conditioners.

Don't cry but laugh instead as it's not your money that is being used.
No use making these judgemental posts

 

[keith_correa]

How will audiophiles hear the fourth clarinet in the fifth row of Vienna Philharmonic or the breath intake and nasal congestion of the soprano if all that dirty hydroelectric power messes up their systems ?

I can hear the wind "instrument" on the person sitting in the front row, listening to the orchestra, when he has eaten too much beans and feels the urge. And that's with "dirty" power. With "clean", regenerated power, there will be olfaction too!

 

[panditji]

Don't cry but laugh instead as it's not your money that is being used.
No use making these judgemental posts

Sir, why stop people from judging others? If someone is posting about how good their 10,000 USD power conditioner is, we should allow people to criticize as well... In the end, people are free to spend their own money however and wherever they like but it is better if we allow people to read both sides of a story which might help others in their purchase... I would not like it if e commerce websites don't allow for negative reviews to be posted...

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Love or hate it, ASR do brings such unclothing of emperors clothes.

Audiophooery should be obnoxious.

PS Audio PowerPlant 12 Review (AC Regenerator)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio PowerPlant 12 (P12) AC regenerator. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $5,499. PS Audio nails the industrial design of the unit. I really like the casework as well as the look of the various graphical meters as you see above...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But yes these products are there because there is a market and clever persuasion through peer conditioning.

You all should try one , before you dismiss it as marketing nonsense.

I use one, so I can speak from my own experience that it works and works really well

 

[Enkay78]

You all should try one , before you dismiss it as marketing nonsense.

I use one, so I can speak from my own experience that it works and works really well

When all the evidences points there is no change or difference?


I know we all want the music that we hear from our devices (be it cheap/expensive/ultraexpensive).....but we should not be missing a point that we can fall for marketing. And that marketing should be ethical.

Asking the evidence from companies or influencers are what will make the hobby and the industry healthier than the phoolery with leeching-profit-vested-interest.


For many of the veterans, theirs journey has been long. But for the sake of young generations, IMO we should be helping what is chaff and grain.


Off course my disclaimer has been :it's your money, your hobby - you can mortgage your house, well a kidney ....you can do what you want.

I am not asking accountability from you.....but from the sellers and marketers, manufacturers.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

When all the evidences points there is no change or difference?


I know we all want the music that we hear from our devices (be it cheap/expensive/ultraexpensive).....but we should not be missing a point that we can fall for marketing. And that marketing should be ethical.

Asking the evidence from companies or influencers are what will make the hobby and the industry healthier than the phoolery with leeching-profit-vested-interest.


For many of the veterans, theirs journey has been long. But for the sake of young generations, IMO we should be helping what is chaff and grain.


Off course my disclaimer has been :it's your money, your hobby - you can mortgage your house, well a kidney ....you can do what you want.

I am not asking accountability from you.....but from the sellers and marketers, manufacturers.

Haha....I just mentioned that I perceive a very noticable improvement. And you want to dismiss it again

You haven't heard one, and I use one....so I win

 

[Enkay78]

Haha....I just mentioned that I perceive a very noticable improvement. And you want to dismiss it again

You haven't heard one, and I use one....so I win

Off course you win. I am not fighting you. You got your money's worth. I am not arguing you for a win. (Your subjective impression can be a placebo until and unless you can prove it beyond doubt by objective measurements....which is actually not your onus but the manufacturer)


Let me clear my perspective in a different way:

This device will cost around Rs 5.5 lakhs in India (going by the usual rate of US prices in India). And the performance of this device is zero improvement over your mains supply.

Now I have installed a 10kw solar power plant which included a 10kw ABB solar string inverter, SPD modules, 4 ground earthing system, and MCBs. The cost of the project without subsidy was Rs 7 lakh. Our side we get 70% subsidy. I paid Rs 2 lakhs for the plant.

And my power quality with this system is fantastic. (and with protection and proper grounding).


So yeah, you can win.


But I am not here for winning.
But for sharing perspectives.

Obviously you may need not agree with me. Neither am I asking you to agree with me.

I AM JUST BEING CRITICAL TO MANUFACTURERS LIKE PS AUDIO. And sharing my perspective that these kind of companies wil never get me as their consumer. I will buy good performing products be it cheap or expensive. (that always has been our individual choice).

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

How will audiophiles hear the fourth clarinet in the fifth row of Vienna Philharmonic or the breath intake and nasal congestion of the soprano if all that dirty hydroelectric power messes up their systems ?

It could be funny coming from a reviewer

But you should trust me when I say, that I've heard systems doing that

And you should also trust me again when I say, it is not because of the electronics involved, but it is the room.

Off course you win. I am not fighting you. You got your money's worth. I am not arguing you for a win. (Your subjective impression can be a placebo until and unless you can prove it beyond doubt by objective measurements....which is actually not your onus but the manufacturer)


Let me clear my perspective in a different way:

This device will cost around Rs 5.5 lakhs in India (going by the usual rate of US prices in India). And the performance of this device is zero improvement over your mains supply.

Now I have installed a 10kw solar power plant which included a 10kw ABB solar string inverter, SPD modules, 4 ground earthing system, and MCBs. The cost of the project without subsidy was Rs 7 lakh. Our side we get 70% subsidy. I paid Rs 2 lakhs for the plant.

And my power quality with this system is fantastic. (and with protection and proper grounding).


So yeah, you can win.


But I am not here for winning.
But for sharing perspectives.

Obviously you may need not agree with me. Neither am I asking you to agree with me.

I AM JUST BEING CRITICAL TO MANUFACTURERS LIKE PS AUDIO. And sharing my perspective that these kind of companies wil never get me as their consumer. I will buy good performing products be it cheap or expensive. (that always has been our individual choice).

I return to my basic question, have you compared the so called pure solar power supply to a Power plant, in your system with your ears.

 

[Enkay78]

I return to my basic question, have you compared the so called pure solar power supply to a Power plant, in your system with your ears.

I happily surrender

 

[jai1611]

I will buy good performing products be it cheap or expensive. (that always has been our individual choice).

I think everyone does the same thing. you seem to follow the ASR definition on what is a good product. Others May have a different perspective on what constitutes a good product for them.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I happily surrender

I urge you to keep an open mind enkay

As I progress along trying newer and different stuff, I find my own judgements and preconceptions changing along the way, in a way I couldn't have believed a few years back.

Nothing wrong with your approach , but whenever you get a chance, please be open minded to experiment and try for yourselves.

 

[Bloom@83]

It could be funny coming from a reviewer

But you should trust me when I say, that I've heard systems doing that

And you should also trust me again when I say, it is not because of the electronics involved, but it is the room.

Sir , in my case , my total setup cost is less than half the price of just the cables of some of the FMs here. So I’m definitely not going to argue on resolution power / transparency and (speculative ) scaling up of the same with the addition of an exotic power conditioner.

However , I have heard mid-tier stereo setups costing upto 10L in the houses of at least two veteran audiophiles in Kolkata , one of whom has spent a tidy sum on room treatment as well. They don’t believe power regenerators / conditioners make any improvement to the end sound.
As per them , it makes some difference , but that is not necessarily an improvement. It’s more of a horizontal shift in sound signature rather than a vertical scale up.
Hence , with less than a quarter of their experience, I’m skeptical.
But I’ve an open mind and would love to see and hear for myself such an improvement in a different setup.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Sir , in my case , my total setup cost is less than half the price of just the cables of some of the FMs here. So I’m definitely not going to argue on resolution power / transparency and (speculative ) scaling up of the same with the addition of an exotic power conditioner.

However , I have heard mid-tier setups costing upto 10L in the houses of at least two veteran audiophiles in Kolkata , one of whom has spent a tidy sum on room treatment as well. They don’t believe power regenerators / conditioners make any improvement to the end sound.
As per them , it makes some difference , but that is not necessarily an improvement. It’s more of a horizontal shift in sound signature rather than a vertical scale up.
Hence , with less than a quarter of their experience, I’m skeptical.
But I’ve an open mind and would love to see and hear for myself such an improvement in a different setup.

Please yaar...sir isn't required. I haven't been knighted yet

I can only share my own experiences, and I don't give any credence to anyone's beliefs. Except my own trails and tribulations.

My system used to sound crap, this same time last year. Then I embarked on a mission to treat my room, and this has been the biggest improvement I've ever had. If the room is not resolving enough, then it will mask the changes brought by dacs, or power treatment or cables.

So to me now, it is never the system being unresolving enough to hear differences, but it is always the room.

 

[Bloom@83]

Please yaar...sir isn't required. I haven't been knighted yet

I can only share my own experiences, and I don't give any credence to anyone's beliefs. Except my own trails and tribulations.

My system used to sound crap, this same time last year. Then I embarked on a mission to treat my room, and this has been the biggest improvement I've ever had. If the room is not resolving enough, then it will mask the changes brought by dacs, or power treatment or cables.

So to me now, it is never the system being unresolving enough to hear differences, but it is always the room.

This is very much plausible . No arguments there.