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pre-power combo from yamaha : cx-xa5000 ; mx-a5000

AV Cables

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rishiguru

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Thanks for the BIG news acoustics. Its good to know Yamaha is in AV separate business. Marantz also have a similar spec separate just like this. I hope someone does a head to head between these two.

By the way just giving a quick look at the pics posted, I find the CX-A5000 pre-amp is a built on the Avantage cabinet (most likely a RX-A3020) where as the MX-A5000 power amp is a DSP-Z11 cabinet with the face-plate changed. But they have gone to finer details like retaining the Z11's heatsinks which implies more or less equal power, but this time with Z9 like toroidal transformer and much better speaker terminals.

Amazingly though, and I am quite disappointed to say this dedicated power amp have less power than their Z9 AV amplifier!!! The Z9 could do 170+170 watts, two channels driven @ 8 ohms @ 0.015% THD @ 20 Hz ~ 20 Khz with dynamic power reaching to 580+ 580 watts under 2 ohms load.

Where as the new MX-A5000 power amp could do 150+150 watts, two channels driven @ 8 ohms @ 0.06% THD (much higher than Z9) @ 20 Hz ~ 20 Khz with dynamic power reaching to 500+ 500 watts under 2 ohms load.

But then there are more to an AV separate other than just raw power. I look forward to them.
 
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rishiguru

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Compare: DSP-Z11 (Left) vs MX-A5000(Right)



After going through the catalog as found on the link, I found Yamaha have mentioned their 11 channel MX-A5000 power amp is based on the DSP-Z11 components.

Some noteworthy points:

1) MX-A5000 uses the same cabinet of DSP-Z11 AV amplifier released in 2007.

2) It uses the heatsinks of Z11 which implies power amp circuit design are identical. Minimal cost incurred during designing.:)

3) The Z11 had 11 powered channels (140 Wpc X 7 + 50 Wpc X 4) @ 0.04% THD @ 8 ohms. The MX-A5000 have 11 powered channels (150 Wpc X 7 + 150Wpc X 4) @ 0.06 THD @ 8 ohms. An increase in THD level implies under all probability it is (140 Wpc X 7 + 140Wpc X 4) = (140 Wpc X 11) @ 0.04% THD @ 8 ohms. In comparison the DSP-Z9 could have pumped out (190 Wpc X 7 + 50 Wpc X 2) @ 0.04% THD @ 8 ohms.

4) Z11 used E-I core power transformer while MX-A5000 uses a much higher quality and more powerful toroidal transformer alike Z9.

5) Z11 used a pair of Toshiba 2SA2121/ 2SC5949 power transistors for each of it 11 channels. The rail voltage to the power amp was (64VDC X 2) for its (140 Wpc X 7) channels and (37VDC X 2) for its (50 Wpc X 4) channels. MX-A5000 under all probability uses the same power transistors with uniform rail voltage of (64VDC X 2) for all its (140 Wpc X 11) channels courtesy a more powerful power transformer.

6) DSP-Z11/ MX-A5000 uses 22 power transistors in total for 11 channels. DSP-Z9 used 32 for 9 channels.

7) Since MX-A5000 uses the same power amp circuit board of Z11, it follows Three-stage Darlington circuit topology(mentioned in catalog) for all of its 11 channels. The Z9 in comparison uses Dual Three-stage Darlington circuit topology for its main 7 channels and Three-stage Darlington circuit topology for the other 2 channels. Dual Three-stage Darlington output stage circuit topology is more robust and will be more stable under 4 ohms load.

8) MX-A5000 uses the same 2 X 27,000uF power capacitors of DSP-Z11 for its 11 channels of amplification. In comparison DSP-Z9 uses 2 X 28,000uF for its 9 channels.

I am still to look at CX-A5000 pre amplifier for the details. Any update on the price?
 
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elangoas

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Onkyo 2012 series : TX NR 818 & upwards models use Three-Stage Inverted Darlington Circuitry....

Never understood what it is...... Is it something special/is this better than the normal amplifier design...
 

acoustics

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The cx-a preamp is a full balanced design from input to output. It is suspected to have the ess 9016 DAC's in dual differential mode for all of its 11.2 channels. It has the same room correction algo and DSP system as employed by the z11 but with an advancement of early reflection control.
Now talking about the power I think the flagship aventage models have enough power for mid sized HT rooms. Considering the fact that at any given instance during a movie not all the channels require the same amount of power . This is because the way the movies are mixed in multichannel format the surround effects are achieved by the means of panning or steering the sound from one channel to the other, so when the demand of one channel increases the power required by the other decreases. This way a balance is maintained. Moreover the most power hungry frequencies which are the lower frequencies are handled by dedicated subwoofers. More power is generally preffered in a stereo setup for music because the way music is recorded a lot of power hungry sound elements are common for both channels.
I think the cx-a preamp will have an outstanding sound quality . Every one has different requirements and preferences. I like the aventage series because they have a lot of flexibility and an extremely good sound stage. I have owned the z9 and now have the 3067 . The 3067 has an emotiva xpa3 on its front three channels along with the neptune eq room correction . The results are much better than the z9 both during movies and music.
 
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acoustics

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Compare: DSP-Z11 (Left) vs MX-A5000(Right)

8) MX-A5000 uses the same 2 X 27,000uF power capacitors of DSP-Z11 for its 11 channels of amplification. In comparison DSP-Z9 uses 2 X 28,000uF for its 9 channels.
please note that out of the 11 channels to be handled by the amplifier 4 channels are the presence channels . Now these 4 channels have very very low power requirements because these are only used for creating the ambience. Small wall mount speakers having a good efficiency and about 4 inch driver size do the job perfectly. So the load for power on the amplifier by these speakers is minimum. Next are the 2 back and the 2 side surround speakers . These only demand more/high power during certain passages in a movie and very often a lot of us use small sized speakers having driver sizes 5.25 to 6 inch as surround speakers. So again the power demand by these speakers can be easily handled by the amp. That leaves us with the front three speakers, now an amp of a flagship series has that calibre to easily drive the front LCR speakers
 
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rishiguru

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acoustics I have no doubt that this Yamaha AV separate (CX-A5000 + MX-A5000) will satisfy even the most demanding movie buffs out there. It even has enough finesse and grunt to satisfy many music lovers too. Mind you DSP-Z11 was THX Ultra 2 certified, so for sure Z11 based MX-A5000 have an implicit THX Ultra 2 stamp with muscles of Carl Lewis.

Also multi-channel music can only be enjoyed to its brim with systems like these. I personally believe this combo may eventually eclipse their iconic DSP-Z9 in terms of musicality because of the dedicated pre-amp CX-A5000. Though I admit I am yet to come around a receiver that can beat the Z9 in terms of musicality and pure raw unadulterated power.

You see most music tracks are stereo, and I have heard the DSP-Z9/ DSP-Z11/ AVC-A1SRA paired with seven huge Axiom Audio M80's floorstanders, and even in stereo no one could exploit those M80 like the Z9. But you need loudspeakers of that caliber to really hear the difference between a Z9 and a Z11.

The only question remains now is their price. I hope someone updates us soon. :)
 
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acoustics

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Rishi , we have had audio receivers for decades . AV receivers were introduced much later because these were maily developed for movies and not music. When a same amplifier is used with different brand of speakers you would get a different sound quality or tonality. I have owned the z9 in the past. I have the 3067 at present and I have a emotiva xpa3 on its front 3 channels thats because I shifted my hometheater setup to a bigger room. Instead of using the ypao I have a dedicated room correction system by neptune eq. For me this setup plays stereo music and multichannel bluray audio much better than the z9.
But I dont use this system for stereo music, for that I have a yulong sabred18 dac hooked up to the emotiva xsp1 pre amplifier . This stereo setup produces an exceptional 2 channel audio unlike the z9 and the 3067. Also I would like to let you know that a chinese brand called tonewinner makes an av receiver that has a very good stereo and 5.1 performance
Its the ad-9600se


 
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acoustics

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this has 120000uf capacitance on the power supply and very high quality parts some even better than what is used by popular branded av receiver manufaturers in their flagship models. Yes I have heard it once at a showroom in china, sounds pretty awsome. But again when you compare its sound quality to this brands dedicated stereo amp the ad-2se you would forget the very best of stereo amps from NAD .
have a loook at other chinese audio brands like
shanling
mingda
yaqin
and the best dussun
damn good quality for the price
 

rishiguru

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One of my dream setup:



1) Yamaha CX-A5000 + MX-A5000 (AV Seperates)
2) Yamaha Soavo S-F901 (Fronts)
3) Yamaha Soavo NS-B951 (Presence)
........
........
and the list goes on......

I am simply blown to bits by this new Yamaha Soavo 1 successor. Soavo S-F901 are standing beauties. Should be even better to hear than just to look at.

Yamaha Soavo S-F901



 
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handymanmo

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acoustics I have no doubt that this Yamaha AV separate (CX-A5000 + MX-A5000) will satisfy even the most demanding movie buffs out there. It even has enough finesse and grunt to satisfy many music lovers too. Mind you DSP-Z11 was THX Ultra 2 certified, so for sure Z11 based MX-A5000 have an implicit THX Ultra 2 stamp with muscles of Carl Lewis.

Also multi-channel music can only be enjoyed to its brim with systems like these. I personally believe this combo may eventually eclipse their iconic DSP-Z9 in terms of musicality because of the dedicated pre-amp CX-A5000. Though I admit I am yet to come around a receiver that can beat the Z9 in terms of musicality and pure raw unadulterated power.

You see most music tracks are stereo, and I have heard the DSP-Z9/ DSP-Z11/ AVC-A1SRA paired with seven huge Axiom Audio M80's floorstanders, and even in stereo no one could exploit those M80 like the Z9. But you need loudspeakers of that caliber to really hear the difference between a Z9 and a Z11.

The only question remains now is their price. I hope someone updates us soon. :)
You can find the prices now. I just ordered both Yamaha CXA/MXA5000 for $4500.00 Waiting on them to come in. I will run the balanced connectors as well. I wanted to get the power amps from Outlaw audio, but insurance is paying, so I went with the MXA5000 instead. I'll post when I receive them.
 
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