Reddit: PSA: Stop buying speakers too large for your room!!

[rwnano]

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/uuqdxu

I've been on the business-end of the audiophile world for the better part of two decades. It's a common joke within the industry that you can always squeeze more money out of a buyer by getting them to upgrade to speakers that are too large for their room. And then upselling expensive bigger amps, room optimization services and room treatments to compensate for the problematic speakers.
This is the reality:

• Bookshelves/2-ways of a product line will ALWAYS SOUND BETTER than the larger 3 or 4 way speakers, except in the very largest of rooms.
• Active subs are far more musical and accurate than passive "full range" towers.
• Room treatment matters far less when going with proper 2-way plus sub.
• Room positioning and optimization packages are another upsell to make speakers that are far too large work in a room.
• No amount of positioning and room treatment for giant speakers will cancel out the inherent negative speaker/room bass interactions.

To give an example of the two-way vs big boy speakers, look at Focal: the Focal Utopia Diablos have the same mids and highs and crossover/cabinet quality as the Grande speakers. Here is why the Diablos will sound better everywhere except an auditorium:

• single midrange will have better point-source accuracy than an MTM design in any real listening situation
• MTM design is far harder to position accurately relative to listener to achieve same results as a standard 2-way
• Less crossover components in the system = cleaner sound
• Handoff to bass around 220hz is eliminated
• Amp works less to control two drivers than many more, thus cleaner signal, etc.
• Sub bass, in a 2-way system, will be handled by a corrected sub. A dsp sub will 100% compensate for room problems, while a passive full range can never truly have room-accurate bass

As for an example of why giant speakers don't work in rooms, look at this space:

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/ug8df4

Now, very cool stuff, looks great, not to throw the owner under the bus, glad he likes his gear. Here are the technical problems that a company would recognize when setting up a demo for customers:

• The listening position is waaaay too close to the giant speakers (the ottoman is like 2 feet away from the speaker position)
• At that distance, the drivers won't "blend" and create a coherent image
• The distance from the top tweeters on the towers to the ear are way off than the bottom tweeters
• The top mid driver is, likewise, at a different time delay than the bottom mid driver
• The only way to have them blend is to: A) move way back and B) make super sure the listening position is exactly centered between all the drivers or C) have a very complicated digital crossover to time align all the drivers to the exact listening position
• Both sets of speakers in that room are appropriate for a space 800+sqft minimum.

Another interesting detail that insiders know: speaker drivers have a power sweet spot for performance, meaning they don't sound good when played quietly. Typically only super sensitive speakers can play at low volumes with the same quality. I once did a demo with a full range 3" driver + sub vs a $50k massive 3-way passive speaker in a room approx 16ftx40ft. The 3" sounded almost as good as the mega speaker. They were both voiced similarly, but the room was still small enough for the 3" to still compete with mega speaker. Double the room size, and the 3 incher would fall apart, but the true output of these giant speakers is appropriate for hotel conference rooms and auditoriums, where the speakers are often demoed at shows and hifi events.
And, again, this isn't hypothetical on my part, the business side has tested this, and deals with it at every single audio show. More = better to the consumer, right? One test to demonstrate this multi-driver effect was a speaker system designed as a two-way monitor first, but also had additional tweeters/woofers that could be turned on or off. In every scenario, the basic 2-way design sounded more coherent, accurate and, of course, musical.
So why the options for tons of tweeters/drivers? Because that's what the sales people could upsell to the buyers. Like expensive cables that can't pass a blind A/B test, giant speakers pay the bills. If companies only sold or pushed their 2-way speakers with active subs, they'd make far less money. And eliminate the upgrade path to keep customers spending more over time.
Anyway, end of rant, hope this helps some people out there
UPDATE: For those that disagree with the premise above, do you believe a speaker can, theoretically, be too large for a room? If so, what is that limit?
UPDATE 2: Speaker companies add bigger drivers for bigger rooms. Here is a Focal Aria 948 speaker: https://www.focal.com/us/high-fidelity-speakers/aria-900/aria-948
"...for rooms measuring from 320ft2 (30m2) and from a recommended listening distance of 12ft (3.5m)."
And that's a speaker with 2 8" woofers. Not some of these speakers on here with double 10" or 12" woofers in a 15x15ft room with a listening distance of 6ft.
UPDATE 3: Anyone following Velocipede's posts below, he points out: "DSP, whether built into the sub or stand alone before the amp is important. IMO: Everyone can benefit from DSP for low end subwoofer or not. I have towers and dual subs and I tune them all with DSP for optimal results. My listening position is the same despite my room. My room determines the modes, and thus my DSP settings."
I agree. DSP is how you compensate for speakers that are too large for the room. Adding subs will also help even out the bass, assuming one runs the larger speakers full-range. If they cross over to the subs at, say, 200Hz, and the 3rd driver in the system is at 200Hz as well, then you've made the 3 way speakers into, in effect, 2 way speakers plus an active subwoofer. At some point, if you actively power each area -- sub bass, bass, mids, highs -- you've arrived at an active speaker with an active crossover. Which is ideal.
But this post is about those with mega speakers in tiny spaces without dsp

 

[arj]

The prevailing wisdom always has usually been something which i try and follow ie

0. Get the best source you can buy. having a poor source and/or source material will bring down any advantages to a great room or components.

1. Speaker for your room. The s]Speaker + Room synergy is more important than the speaker or room itself. A large speaker /Horn in a small room or a small speakers/small driver area in a large room will not sound good. Hence choose the speaker for your room and place it right

2. Amp to speaker synergy is the next important thing. and this is even more important than having the best amp and speaker. Hence choose the amp for your speaker

3. Pay attention to power: Power is the oxygen to your system and making sure you have well fitting connectors, good cable ( good not expensive) and dont have devices like LED lights/TVs/Computers/Refrigerators/ACs etc on the same line as your equipment helps. laying of power and signal cables with no parallel runs also helps. very often nouse floor and lack of transparency issues can be traced to power.

4. Vibration control/cables etc etc.

Of courser there are so many more. areas like Room treatment/conditioners and EQ also..but IMHO they come in only if you are not able to solve the problem with the above 4.

 

[jigarpatel]

A large speaker /Horn in a small room or a small speakers/small driver area in a large room will not sound good.

What size of room considered small, medium and large ?
If you can provide example of which speakers worked in each room size, based on your experience would be helpful.

 

[arj]

What size of room considered small, medium and large ?
If you can provide example of which speakers worked in each room size, based on your experience would be helpful.

Its so subjective and difficult to generalize !

eg putting 10" drivers or above in a 10x14 room or below will most probably overpower the room and putting a 8" or below 2 way speaker in a 20x15 room or above will not give you the bass impact . Of course height of ceiling also matter all the above is for a typical 9 ft ceiling.

But there are so many exceptions since Power and driver type and configuration also matter. eg an ATC with an 8" or even a 6" but a 150W amp may still play well in a largish room while an Audio note or Harbeth 30 even with a 8" driver may be better suited to a smaller room.

I used to run a Tannoy Kensington with 10" drivers in a 10x14 room with a leben and it was just about ok. but in a 12x20 room i definitely needed more power. Thats why matching the room to the speaker is so critical and it cannot be generalised. When one finalizes on a buy for a speaker its quite easy to check what size of rooms is it recommended for and then plan for the same

 

[rwnano]

how do I get good source ? I have a laptop and a Topping DAC. FLAC files? I do enjoy my spotify though..

 

[SKK73]

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/uuqdxu

I've been on the business-end of the audiophile world for the better part of two decades. It's a common joke within the industry that you can always squeeze more money out of a buyer by getting them to upgrade to speakers that are too large for their room. And then upselling expensive bigger amps, room optimization services and room treatments to compensate for the problematic speakers.
This is the reality:

• Bookshelves/2-ways of a product line will ALWAYS SOUND BETTER than the larger 3 or 4 way speakers, except in the very largest of rooms.
• Active subs are far more musical and accurate than passive "full range" towers.
• Room treatment matters far less when going with proper 2-way plus sub.
• Room positioning and optimization packages are another upsell to make speakers that are far too large work in a room.
• No amount of positioning and room treatment for giant speakers will cancel out the inherent negative speaker/room bass interactions.

To give an example of the two-way vs big boy speakers, look at Focal: the Focal Utopia Diablos have the same mids and highs and crossover/cabinet quality as the Grande speakers. Here is why the Diablos will sound better everywhere except an auditorium:

• single midrange will have better point-source accuracy than an MTM design in any real listening situation
• MTM design is far harder to position accurately relative to listener to achieve same results as a standard 2-way
• Less crossover components in the system = cleaner sound
• Handoff to bass around 220hz is eliminated
• Amp works less to control two drivers than many more, thus cleaner signal, etc.
• Sub bass, in a 2-way system, will be handled by a corrected sub. A dsp sub will 100% compensate for room problems, while a passive full range can never truly have room-accurate bass

As for an example of why giant speakers don't work in rooms, look at this space:

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/ug8df4

Now, very cool stuff, looks great, not to throw the owner under the bus, glad he likes his gear. Here are the technical problems that a company would recognize when setting up a demo for customers:

• The listening position is waaaay too close to the giant speakers (the ottoman is like 2 feet away from the speaker position)
• At that distance, the drivers won't "blend" and create a coherent image
• The distance from the top tweeters on the towers to the ear are way off than the bottom tweeters
• The top mid driver is, likewise, at a different time delay than the bottom mid driver
• The only way to have them blend is to: A) move way back and B) make super sure the listening position is exactly centered between all the drivers or C) have a very complicated digital crossover to time align all the drivers to the exact listening position
• Both sets of speakers in that room are appropriate for a space 800+sqft minimum.

Another interesting detail that insiders know: speaker drivers have a power sweet spot for performance, meaning they don't sound good when played quietly. Typically only super sensitive speakers can play at low volumes with the same quality. I once did a demo with a full range 3" driver + sub vs a $50k massive 3-way passive speaker in a room approx 16ftx40ft. The 3" sounded almost as good as the mega speaker. They were both voiced similarly, but the room was still small enough for the 3" to still compete with mega speaker. Double the room size, and the 3 incher would fall apart, but the true output of these giant speakers is appropriate for hotel conference rooms and auditoriums, where the speakers are often demoed at shows and hifi events.
And, again, this isn't hypothetical on my part, the business side has tested this, and deals with it at every single audio show. More = better to the consumer, right? One test to demonstrate this multi-driver effect was a speaker system designed as a two-way monitor first, but also had additional tweeters/woofers that could be turned on or off. In every scenario, the basic 2-way design sounded more coherent, accurate and, of course, musical.
So why the options for tons of tweeters/drivers? Because that's what the sales people could upsell to the buyers. Like expensive cables that can't pass a blind A/B test, giant speakers pay the bills. If companies only sold or pushed their 2-way speakers with active subs, they'd make far less money. And eliminate the upgrade path to keep customers spending more over time.
Anyway, end of rant, hope this helps some people out there
UPDATE: For those that disagree with the premise above, do you believe a speaker can, theoretically, be too large for a room? If so, what is that limit?
UPDATE 2: Speaker companies add bigger drivers for bigger rooms. Here is a Focal Aria 948 speaker: https://www.focal.com/us/high-fidelity-speakers/aria-900/aria-948
"...for rooms measuring from 320ft2 (30m2) and from a recommended listening distance of 12ft (3.5m)."
And that's a speaker with 2 8" woofers. Not some of these speakers on here with double 10" or 12" woofers in a 15x15ft room with a listening distance of 6ft.
UPDATE 3: Anyone following Velocipede's posts below, he points out: "DSP, whether built into the sub or stand alone before the amp is important. IMO: Everyone can benefit from DSP for low end subwoofer or not. I have towers and dual subs and I tune them all with DSP for optimal results. My listening position is the same despite my room. My room determines the modes, and thus my DSP settings."
I agree. DSP is how you compensate for speakers that are too large for the room. Adding subs will also help even out the bass, assuming one runs the larger speakers full-range. If they cross over to the subs at, say, 200Hz, and the 3rd driver in the system is at 200Hz as well, then you've made the 3 way speakers into, in effect, 2 way speakers plus an active subwoofer. At some point, if you actively power each area -- sub bass, bass, mids, highs -- you've arrived at an active speaker with an active crossover. Which is ideal.
But this post is about those with mega speakers in tiny spaces without dsp

Hi, I am looking for a 2ch setup. Room is 375 sq ft.. I was looking at Focal Kanta n3 with Naim SN3 amp. Can you please suggest any combinations

 

[ZzZzZ]

how do I get good source ? I have a laptop and a Topping DAC. FLAC files? I do enjoy my spotify though..

Apple music lossless is better in sound quality, but Spotify has better recommendations and playlists.

 

[rwnano]

Hi, I am looking for a 2ch setup. Room is 375 sq ft.. I was looking at Focal Kanta n3 with Naim SN3 amp. Can you please suggest any combinations

As per the above discussion... you'd be best served with a 2.1 set-up. One active subwoofer would be good. Attached to the amplifier apart from the two way bookshelf speakers.

 

[jigarpatel]

Its so subjective and difficult to generalize !

I understand, it's subjective.
However any guide line on what size of room considered small, medium or large ?
Just a room size, let's not add any other variables like type of speaker or driver size etc.

 

[arj]

I understand, it's subjective.
However any guide line on what size of room considered small, medium or large ?
Just a room size, let's not add any other variables like type of speaker or driver size etc.

not sure where you are trying to get to or how it will help as these are not scientific but subjective lingo. If it helps, from what I have experienced with speakers 150sq ft or less could be considered small and 250 eq feet or above large and the rest middle. Of course assuming 9ft ceilings and usual furniture in a "listening room." but if you do have a hall of 200 which strangely is 10x20, i would still consider it similar to small room in acoustics
.

 

[jigarpatel]

not sure where you are trying to get to or how it will help as these are not scientific but subjective lingo.

I am trying to get some starting point, some pointers.
For example,
since last 10 to 15 days I am finding that on higher volume (70 db avg, 82 db max), I find music is not enjoyable in my living room.
Initially I thought there is something wrong with my chain, may be speaker (wharfedale evo 4.2), may be integrated amplifier(Naim nait 5si).
However when I remember even with my old chain speaker (wharfedale diamond 225) and amp (Marantz PM7005) I had observed similar behavior.

This made me think that, probably room is problem not chain.
Following is my current thoughts

• Add some carpet on tile floor.
• Measure REW response
• Probably bigger bookshelf speaker is not for my room.
  • System very enjoyable at 65db avg, 72db max
  • System not enjoyable at 70db avg, 82db max
  • Hear distortion, lack of clarity ( 65db avg Vs. 70 db avg )
• Room is L shaped, check image of room size
  • I am considering my room size as 11 x 17 listening area

With your example of 10 x20, I feel my L shaped room, where listening area rectangle size is 11 x 17, wharfedale evo 4.2 is bigger speaker for the room.

 

[Phew]

1. What source do you use for playback?
2. What's the distance between the speakers and between you and the speaker?

Going by the drawing, the right speaker is much closer to the wall than the left, also the distance between speaker appears less as compared to how far your listening position is.
Working on getting the symmetry first will be a good starting point to find the cause of your problem.

 

[jigarpatel]

1. What source do you use for playback?
2. What's the distance between the speakers and between you and the speaker?

1. What source do you use for playback?

- AudioLab 6000CDT - Coaxial, Raspberry PI (LMS, USB)​

2. What's the distance between the speakers and between you and the speaker?

- Distance between speakers is 5.5 feet - center to center.​

- Right speaker center to right side wall distance is 2 feet.​

- Speakers front to back wall distance is 90 cm (2.95 feet).​

- Listening position is 9 feet​

- I do pull out chair around 7 feet, same issue.​

Working on getting the symmetry first will be a good starting point to find the cause of your problem.

Since on left hand side there is door, I can only position speakers on one side of the room, so symmetry is not practical.
I can try out symmetry, however will not be able to keep left speaker parentally at that position.

 

[arj]

I am trying to get some starting point, some pointers.
For example,
since last 10 to 15 days I am finding that on higher volume (70 db avg, 82 db max), I find music is not enjoyable in my living room.
Initially I thought there is something wrong with my chain, may be speaker (wharfedale evo 4.2), may be integrated amplifier(Naim nait 5si).
However when I remember even with my old chain speaker (wharfedale diamond 225) and amp (Marantz PM7005) I had observed similar behavior.

This made me think that, probably room is problem not chain.
Following is my current thoughts

• Add some carpet on tile floor.
• Measure REW response
• Probably bigger bookshelf speaker is not for my room.
  • System very enjoyable at 65db avg, 72db max
  • System not enjoyable at 70db avg, 82db max
  • Hear distortion, lack of clarity ( 65db avg Vs. 70 db avg )
• Room is L shaped, check image of room size
  • I am considering my room size as 11 x 17 listening area

With your example of 10 x20, I feel my L shaped room, where listening area rectangle size is 11 x 17, wharfedale evo 4.2 is bigger speaker for the room.

Really liked your scientific approach on this. L shaped can be tricky as the side and rear walls be have like a smaller room but the air volume which needs to be pressurized to feel the impact is of the larger room

Lack of enjoyment can be due to several reasons.. eg Distortion at higher volumes since power is not enough and even treble may not sound sweet , Bass not scaling up with volume due to not enough pressure, the source itself not having enough resolution or distorting which is showing up at higher volumes etc etc

you could try a subwoofer ( 10" or above) to see if the reason for your lack of enjoyment is the bass not scaling up to the volume. or Try out a different source/Content to see if that improves ?

As a next step you could try to decipher what the reason is whch is making you lose the enjoyment ?

 

[Phew]

Since on left hand side there is door, I can only position speakers on one side of the room, so symmetry is not practical.
I can try out symmetry, however will not be able to keep left speaker parentally at that position.

Well the next thing you can try is a different speaker if possible as even with the marantz you mentioned using a wharfedale speaker and the same problem existed, could be that the wharfedale speakers are voiced a particular way which is not to your liking.

 

[jls001]

I am trying to get some starting point, some pointers.
For example,
since last 10 to 15 days I am finding that on higher volume (70 db avg, 82 db max), I find music is not enjoyable in my living room.
Initially I thought there is something wrong with my chain, may be speaker (wharfedale evo 4.2), may be integrated amplifier(Naim nait 5si).
However when I remember even with my old chain speaker (wharfedale diamond 225) and amp (Marantz PM7005) I had observed similar behavior.

This made me think that, probably room is problem not chain.
Following is my current thoughts

• Add some carpet on tile floor.
• Measure REW response
• Probably bigger bookshelf speaker is not for my room.
  • System very enjoyable at 65db avg, 72db max
  • System not enjoyable at 70db avg, 82db max
  • Hear distortion, lack of clarity ( 65db avg Vs. 70 db avg )
• Room is L shaped, check image of room size
  • I am considering my room size as 11 x 17 listening area

With your example of 10 x20, I feel my L shaped room, where listening area rectangle size is 11 x 17, wharfedale evo 4.2 is bigger speaker for the room.

From your description it looks like the speakers are loading the room as sound is good at lower volume. May be you could describe what is "not enjoyable" at ≥70 dB. Bass boomy? Or what?

Listening position seems pretty far compared to the distance between the speakers.

Secondly, the wall behind the listening position (I'm assuming there's a wall) will reflect the sound and be a source of a fairly large secondary sound that interferes with the primary sound from the speakers. Do a fun experiment - stand up a mattress (larger is better for this experiment) on the wall behind the listening position. This is to absorb some of the sound that reaches the wall. Secondly, pull the listening chair/seat closer to the speakers. Hear how the sound changes with these two changes.

You could also try putting a thick, absorbent rug on the floor between speakers and listener.

 

[DB1989]

I am trying to get some starting point, some pointers.
For example,
since last 10 to 15 days I am finding that on higher volume (70 db avg, 82 db max), I find music is not enjoyable in my living room.
Initially I thought there is something wrong with my chain, may be speaker (wharfedale evo 4.2), may be integrated amplifier(Naim nait 5si).
However when I remember even with my old chain speaker (wharfedale diamond 225) and amp (Marantz PM7005) I had observed similar behavior.

This made me think that, probably room is problem not chain.
Following is my current thoughts

• Add some carpet on tile floor.
• Measure REW response
• Probably bigger bookshelf speaker is not for my room.
  • System very enjoyable at 65db avg, 72db max
  • System not enjoyable at 70db avg, 82db max
  • Hear distortion, lack of clarity ( 65db avg Vs. 70 db avg )
• Room is L shaped, check image of room size
  • I am considering my room size as 11 x 17 listening area

With your example of 10 x20, I feel my L shaped room, where listening area rectangle size is 11 x 17, wharfedale evo 4.2 is bigger speaker for the room.

Hi Jigar,

I have the Evos too and having used them in a room of similar dimensions to yours, I can tell you confidently that they are not too big for your room.

1. What source do you use for playback?

- AudioLab 6000CDT - Coaxial, Raspberry PI (LMS, USB)​

Whoa! I have the Audiolab CDT too. Superb piece of equipment with excellent SQ. I use it with an RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

2. What's the distance between the speakers and between you and the speaker?

- Distance between speakers is 5.5 feet - center to center.​

- Right speaker center to right side wall distance is 2 feet.​

What about the distance of the left speaker centre to the left wall?

- Speakers front to back wall distance is 90 cm (2.95 feet).​

The Evos are deep speakers i.e. approx 35cm or 1.2 feet.

Try increasing the distance from the back wall to the front baffle to approx 4-5 feet.

I assume they are on Stands?

- Listening position is 9 feet​

- I do pull out chair around 7 feet, same issue.​

In addition to pulling out your chair, try pulling out the speakers into the room too by approx 4-5 feet as mentioned above.

Since on left hand side there is door, I can only position speakers on one side of the room, so symmetry is not practical.
I can try out symmetry, however will not be able to keep left speaker parentally at that position.

Symmetry be damned, toe in the speakers so that the left speaker faces your left shoulder and right speaker faces your right shoulder as a starting point. If centre imaging of the vocals is on point from your listening position, you are good to go. The Centre Image will drift if you move form left to right but it shouldn't be a problem unless you don't have a favourite seat and plonk yourself anywhere on the couch

 

[jigarpatel]

Hi Jigar,

I have the Evos too and having used them in a room of similar dimensions to yours, I can tell you confidently that they are not too big for your room.

Whoa! I have the Audiolab CDT too. Superb piece of equipment with excellent SQ. I use it with an RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

What about the distance of the left speaker centre to the left wall?

The Evos are deep speakers i.e. approx 35cm or 1.2 feet.

Try increasing the distance from the back wall to the front baffle to approx 4-5 feet.

I assume they are on Stands?

In addition to pulling out your chair, try pulling out the speakers into the room too by approx 4-5 feet as mentioned above.

Symmetry be damned, toe in the speakers so that the left speaker faces your left shoulder and right speaker faces your right shoulder as a starting point. If centre imaging of the vocals is on point from your listening position, you are good to go. The Centre Image will drift if you move form left to right but it shouldn't be a problem unless you don't have a favourite seat and plonk yourself anywhere on the couch

Thank you for taking time writing elaborated answers to the point.

I assume they are on Stands?

Yes, stands are sound foundation aura, each stand is 13 kg.

Try increasing the distance from the back wall to the front baffle to approx 4-5 feet.

I will try out increasing distance, with increase in distance, right wall interaction will reduce, check image.
However this position is not practical for day to day life, since it's living room and also entry into home.

Symmetry be damned, toe in the speakers so that the left speaker faces your left shoulder and right speaker faces your right shoulder as a starting point. If centre imaging of the vocals is on point from your listening position, you are good to go. The Centre Image will drift if you move form left to right but it shouldn't be a problem unless you don't have a favourite seat and plonk yourself anywhere on the couch

Will try out toe-in again, from my past experiment I didn't liked evo's toe-in.

I use it with an RME ADI-2 DAC FS.

Which amplifier you are using to drive evo ?

 

[DB1989]

Thank you for taking time writing elaborated answers to the point.


Yes, stands are sound foundation aura, each stand is 13 kg.

That's great. Stands make it convenient to pull the speakers out if required.

I will try out increasing distance, with increase in distance, right wall interaction will reduce, check image.

Are you getting a centre image right now i.e. while listening to tracks, do voices appear between the left and right speaker?

However this position is not practical for day to day life, since it's living room and also entry into home.

Sure. Certain trade offs will exist without a dedicated listening room. But it's worth checking out to ascertain if it's the room that is the bone of contention.

Will try out toe-in again, from my past experiment I didn't liked evo's toe-in.

Could you explain in a bit more detail about what is it about the Evos that you did not like when toed-in?

Toe-in is done for the purpose of getting a proper soundstage and centre image.

The extent of Toe-in can be minimal or may not be required at all depending on your distance from the speakers as well as between the speakers themselves.

Since the distance speakers between the speakers is 5.5 feet while listening seat to speakers is 9 feet, very little toe -in would be required according to my estimates.

It's a tedious process but try toeing in your speakers bit by bit. Even after you get a decent centre image and soundstage, keep on increasing toe-in till the centre image and soundstage collapses again. Then readjust toe -in back to the position where you got the best centre image and soundstage.

Which amplifier you are using to drive evo ?

I alternate between a Cambridge Audio CXA81 and Willsenton R8.

 

[changappa]

Its so subjective and difficult to generalize !

eg putting 10" drivers or above in a 10x14 room or below will most probably overpower the room and putting a 8" or below 2 way speaker in a 20x15 room or above will not give you the bass impact . Of course height of sieling also matter all the above is for a typical 9 ft ceiling.

But there are so many exceptions since Power and driver type and configuration also matter. eg an ATC with an 8" or even a 6" but a 150W amp may still play well in a largish room while an Audio note or Harbeth 30 even with a 8" driver may be better suited to a smaller room.

I used to run a Tannoy Kensington with 10" drivers in a 10x14 room with a leben and it was just about ok. but in a 12x20 room i definitely needed more power. Thats why matching the room to the speaker is so critical and it cannot be generalised. When one finalizes on a buy for a speaker its quite easy to check what size of rooms is it recommended for and then plan for the same

In my view a well made amp with 60 W per channel is sufficient for a home setups. The amp must have loudness option so that in low volume it boosts the low end signal. Otherwise when you lower the volume the first thing to lose is bass and depth. Vintage amps always sounded so good only due to the holding of low ends when volume reduced. Nobody listens with higher volume inside the house. Other than when you party. So during party all that matters is that kick ass bass that you get it then. Probably 20 W rms per channel is what is sufficient to listen in side a 16x20 feet room. So you have overhead of 40w juice still left in the amp. Always I wondered how did the few thousand car stereo sounded much better than the 20k amplifier its the pure dc. So if the amp has the good clean dc with sufficient amperes it will certainly sound better.