Reviving my Thorens TD-135 Turntable

anilva

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Got interested again in one of my earliest better quality turntables - Thorens TD135 from early 1960s.

I bought this superb condition TT from a local elderly seller (who worked in Germany and got it from there) for a paltry sum of Rs. 800/- about 15 years back.

Went close to destroying the vintage value of the turntable by wanting to remove the tonearm and mount a new 12" SME or a Jelco on a separate arm board. Stopped after sane advice from friends on various forums including vinylengine.

I have completely serviced the turntable and tonearm myself and looks and performs very good.

The unit came in a original Rosewood box. Now I realize that the rosewood box acts like a sound box and passes on as much rumble as is there.

I am planning to build a new plinth which can isolate and absorb the mechanical vibrations of this idler drive. Any suggestions on the plinth design will be most appreciated.

Attached is the picture.

Cheers,
 

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Hi,

Anil, the TD135 looks to be in very good shape.

I would suggest that you build a plinth like the one in the thread linked below.

Thorens TD135 - pink fish media

My TD124 is in a similar plinth and it works well. I actually prefer this type of plinth for the TD124 .

The rubber mounting "mushrooms" are quite effective at reducing noise, so if they have hardened you could try cork or rubber pads.

The BTD 12 is a pretty good tonearm, it can be bettered but I would leave it as is. As you know it was the inspiration for the EMT tonearms,which are based on the Thorens design.

Try the DL103 on the TD135 and you might end up listening to the TD135 more than your other TT's. :)

Regards
Rajiv
 
Thanks Rajiv. One of the things on my mind, is use the rosewood pieces of the existing cabinet to cover the new plinth in a sort of veneer like layer. The rosewood cabinet is real solid wood. It should improve the new plinth aesthetically and retain the solidity if not reduce.

Right now my thinking is to use it with a Stanton 500EE which I have with a new Jico stylus or a Shure M75, again with a new Jico stylus. If I can make the player quite with the new plinth, I will use the DL-103.

"you might end up listening to the TD135 more than your other TT's." - That's saying a lot, Rajiv.

I will build plinth suggested by you and see what next.

Attached is the picture of the original box.

Cheers.
 

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Anil, Why not try a soapstone or slate plinth ?

Arjun,

I am not big into plinths. In fact I have never made any plinths for all other 8 turntables. I would like to begin with the wood based plinth and see the benefit. Slate and soapstone will be too heavy and difficult to machine. Also dealing with 9 heavy turntables is tough and imagine one with extra weight of a slate/soapstone plinth. I will not be able to do the 'change everything circus' every month. There is no space at my home to keep all of them running in a fixed place.

Cheers.
 
Thanks Rajiv. One of the things on my mind, is use the rosewood pieces of the existing cabinet to cover the new plinth in a sort of veneer like layer. The rosewood cabinet is real solid wood. It should improve the new plinth aesthetically and retain the solidity if not reduce.

Good idea,
It will look nice,please click below links for inspiration :)

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=2228.0

http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=11925.0

Regards,
Sachin
 
Anil,
You should try making a plinth with marine ply . It is easy to work and you could find the results quite encouraging. My garrard 301 with SME 3009 arm is in fact a 6 layered 18 mm plywood plinth and the machine part is literally carved out of it. The reproduction of that table is my favorite. Of course, it is heavy but I am fortunate that I have space in my Listening room to accommodate 4 or 5 heavyweights. I believe, such solid plinths reduces resonance better than most other material. I think, birch ply could better it, but we don't get it here.
 
Any thoughts on a granite based top for a plinth? I have few left over pieces of granite slab in my car porch (after fabricating the kitchen counters) and was wondering if I could use one for my Garrard. It is about an inch and a half thick. Cutting and polishing is not an issue as we have people around who can do that.
 
Just to test the turntable after a long time, fixed a Shure M75 cartridge, aligned and played. Plays well. Lot of lows, slightly subdued highs. I am not looking at perfect sound right now, but is presently quite listenable. What is strange is that as soon as i I lower the stylus on to the record, there is neat 50Hz hum type of sound that gets introduced into the output.

I don't see a reason why a stylus should pick up hum kind of sound from the surface of the record, unless it is a mechanical vibration that is getting to the stylus through the platen and the record. I have to investigate a bit.

Anyone with insight of what could be happening?

Cheers
 
.

I don't see a reason why a stylus should pick up hum kind of sound from the surface of the record, unless it is a mechanical vibration that is getting to the stylus through the platen and the record. I have to investigate a bit.

Anyone with insight of what could be happening?

Cheers
I can see below reasons-
1. Mechanical vibration of inbuilt transformer - try lowering the stylus on record without platter rotating, during powered on state. May disengaging idler temporarily. This could reveal transformer bound hum.
2. Oiling required for platter bearing or/and motor - Mechanical hum.
3. Mounting of motor and its rubber grommets if any.

Btw congrats! I am too working on TD-150, now stuck at dust cover and rubber mat.

Regards,
 
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Any thoughts on a granite based top for a plinth? I have few left over pieces of granite slab in my car porch (after fabricating the kitchen counters) and was wondering if I could use one for my Garrard. It is about an inch and a half thick. Cutting and polishing is not an issue as we have people around who can do that.

I am advised by Prem that granite rings. I am going in for a sandstone 20mm motorboard to replace my hardwood motorboard in my 301. Sandstone is also extremely cheap and can be beautifully painted. I might keep two pieces - one for the machine and one for the tonearm so that i can keep changing stuff at the tonearm base.
 
@anilva: since this is an idler drive, why don't you build a high mass multilayered plinth inside the existing box plinth? Kills two birds with one stone - give it much needed mass to dampen motor vibration, and retain the OEM looks.

One person who has done this is Gerry-the-Merry on his 301. May be he can share some photos with you to give you an idea.
 
I can see below reasons-
1. Mechanical vibration of inbuilt transformer - try lowering the stylus on record without platter rotating, during powered on state. May disengaging idler temporarily. This could reveal transformer bound hum.
2. Oiling required for platter bearing or/and motor - Mechanical hum.
3. Mounting of motor and its rubber grommets if any.

Btw congrats! I am too working on TD-150, now stuck at dust cover and rubber mat.

Regards,

Om,

Thanks. I always liked your trouble shooting approach. It is methodical and logical. BTW, there is no transformer in the TD-135 similar to TD-124. The motor runs on 220V. Also the oiling part is already taken care. What is left is the isolation of vibration of the motor through proper grommets. I will check.

I have read on another forum, someone had a similar problem with a TD-124 and he solved it by motor grommets, plinth and proper supporting feet for the plinth.

First things first, I need to build a proper plinth and then start trouble shooting if the hum persists. It is clearly, mechanical vibration picked up by the stylus.

Cheers.
 
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Hi Anilva,

That looks like a really well preserved specimen indeed! I guess your Aladdin's cave is still throwing up a few treasures now and then hehe. All the best with the project, am curious to hear your impressions after you build the plinth, given the build up that Rajiv has given it.

Regards
 
http://www.hifivision.com/phono-turntables/9229-experimenting-high-pass-filter-old-turntable.html
Generally with mid / low idler wheels drives, even without stylus touching the vinyl the motor vibrations travel through motor coupling to plinth to tonearm to ultimately cartridge. On a cheap turntable it went to more than 80hz (Post #4 in above link) and was significant. Unfortunately Cranky's explanation is not available. Isolating the motor is best but with idler heavy plinth is only option.
Regards.
 
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Just to test the turntable after a long time, fixed a Shure M75 cartridge, aligned and played. Plays well. Lot of lows, slightly subdued highs. I am not looking at perfect sound right now, but is presently quite listenable. What is strange is that as soon as i I lower the stylus on to the record, there is neat 50Hz hum type of sound that gets introduced into the output.

I don't see a reason why a stylus should pick up hum kind of sound from the surface of the record, unless it is a mechanical vibration that is getting to the stylus through the platen and the record. I have to investigate a bit.

Anyone with insight of what could be happening?

Cheers

Anil , IMHO a 50Hz Hum may not be mechanical but electrical as problem due to Vibrations from the motor should be a rumble.

Have you tried the Screwdriver trick ? ie put the sharp end of the screwdriver to the diffferent areas on the plinth and the handle end on to your ear to hear vibrations ...very effective in localizing vibrations

But if it is electrical (And it is not the Tube light choke !) then the trouble shooting would be obviously different
 
Have you tried the Screwdriver trick ? ie put the sharp end of the screwdriver to the diffferent areas on the plinth and the handle end on to your ear to hear vibrations ...very effective in localizing vibrations

That's neat!

Did that just save me the cost of a stethoscope which has been on my buying radar for some time now?:)
 
That's neat!

Did that just save me the cost of a stethoscope which has been on my buying radar for some time now?:)

:yahoo: it really works..My wife being a doc I do have a Steth at home but this one is pretty Cool

Saw it in a Pic used by Microseiki engineers to test for Rumble and tried it out for myself ;)
 
@anilva:
1) does the volume of hum go up when increasing volume
2) if you hover the cartridge over the record surface without touching record and without spinning, is hum present?
 
Anil , IMHO a 50Hz Hum may not be mechanical but electrical as problem due to Vibrations from the motor should be a rumble.

Have you tried the Screwdriver trick ? ie put the sharp end of the screwdriver to the diffferent areas on the plinth and the handle end on to your ear to hear vibrations ...very effective in localizing vibrations

But if it is electrical (And it is not the Tube light choke !) then the trouble shooting would be obviously different

Arj,

It is not electrical. It is mechanical. Various tests confirm that it is mechanical. Also it is not rumble. Rumble frequencies are much lower than 50Hz and I know how rumble sounds.

To answer Joshua's questions, the hum is not picked up until the stylus touches the record. Also the hum is picked up even when the belt is disconnected and the platter is not rotating.

Cheers.
 
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