sam9s Home Entertainment Theater Project - PHASE 1

[sam9s]

Hi Friends,

After almost a wait of 5 years, finally I can say I have started taking baby steps towards my Home Entertainment Hub.

**** INTRO ****​

I will divide the entire experience in two phases, Phase I, i.e this thread would be targeted towards the equipment discussion and will end after all of my equipment is purchased. PHASE II, will be another thread discussing the civil construction , interiors and basic automation I might do. Both the phases... more so phase II will be an ongoing process, where with time, more things would be added, which I will keep sharing in the threads.

***** THE PLAN *****​

Budget is limited (well, when does it isnt .) .. so there will be occasions when I will use some of my existing hardware (for now) or would purchased used one (which might be replaced in future.). But in all probability I will try to gather new. Do as much DIY as possible.

Will be keeping a separate stereo and HT setup, and to the best of my efforts will keep separate rooms as well. But just in case if the budget does not allow, will have a single room for both.

***** THE ROOMs *****​

The HT room will be some where around 10x15x8, and the listening room will be tiny 10x10x8, there will be passage between the two room and a small pantry in between. Already have created and developed a complete 3D plan and layout, which will be shared in details in the PHASE II thread.

*****THE EQUIPMENT******​

Coming to the discussion for what this thread is created, the equipment .........This is how I have scaled everything. The HT would be a 5.1 setup, not a 7.1 as the room is kinda small.

#### The Theater ####​

1. FRONTS ::: I already own Polk TSi300, which I will use as my fronts.

2. REARS ::: Will use my existing Onkyo HTiB rear speakers.

3. CENTER :::NEW, [Budget 6-7K]need suggestions here, since the fronts are polks, which is the cheapest Polk center I can get. The price in Delhi. For now I have just chosen the WHARFEDALE WH-2 for 6,800 on HiFi Mart, I might get it for lesser here in delhi, not sure .....please suggest keeping the same budget 6-7K

4. SUB :::: NEW, [Budget 25-30K], I am at loss here as I could not find a sub (atleast online) which would be a good bet for the price. My liking neat, tight, punchy, chest thumping base. Initially I was planning to go for 2 SUB, as I already have a sub from my Onkyo HTiB, but a 5.2/7.2 AVR was way too above my AVR Budget, so had to stick with one. Please pour in your suggestions. ....... also are there SUBs from elite companies like velodyne or SVS for the price I am asking???

NOTE :: This would be the last piece of hardware I will purchase.

5. AVR :::: NEW, [Budget 35-40K], my choices are only two ...... my most needed feature, networking and 3D passthrough.

## Yamaha RX-v475
## DENON AVR x-1000

pour in your suggestions ...

6. PROJECTOR :::: NEW, [Budget 1000 USD, why usd as I have my friend in US who can carry it along with him]. My own choice ...

## Optoma HD25E
## Optoma HD25-LV
## Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 2030
## BenQ W1070,

Please pour in your suggestions ....

#### The Stereo ####​

1. Floorstands :::: NEW Already auditioned truck loads of floorstands and I am all in for wharfedale 10.4

2. AMP :::: For now (budget constraint), will be connecting it with my Onkyo HTiB AVR, with pureaudio mode. Later in next couple of months, will have a dedicated stereo amp ...


So friends please do pour in your suggestions ..... as you have been helping everyone, please do take time to help your sam9s friend as well.

 

[technobhatt]

Great news Sam.
All the best for your new venture

 

[yanky1586]

Sorry to hijack ur thread but can you please tell me that where did you auditioned wharf in delhi ??.. I am trying to demo wharf dx-1 but couldnt find a store which have them on demo.

 

[sam9s]

Sorry to hijack ur thread but can you please tell me that where did you auditioned wharf in delhi ??.. I am trying to demo wharf dx-1 but couldnt find a store which have them on demo.

Base n Treble Danny, Dwarka

 

[Raghav_K]

are the home theater compnents being purchased in a single shot, or step by step??

cheapest velodyne sub comes to 27k. and if its possible getting subwoofer parts from US and going DIY seems to be the best bet... i will be trying the same in upcoming months...

 

[sam9s]

No, what ever is listed is in single shot. Later on I will replace what I have used from my HTiB like AVR as stereo, rear etc.
Which velodyne SUB you are referring, I mean model number.

Also I am more confused about the Projector ......... Off the 4 I am inclined towards ..

Optoma HD25-LV
Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 2030

but seriously cannot decide between the two,

 

[manoj.p]

Sam,

Nice approach for the theater building. It's better to plan ahead and work the wrinkles out.

We know your room size but you need to tell us more how you plan it. The projector choice and entire speaker layout/setup will depend on that.

Does room have any ambient light? Any windows/doors near the screen?
Are you planning to have all the walls (including ceiling) dark or light color?
What screen size are you aiming for?
Do you want 3D or not interested in it?
Will it be a fixed screen or pull-down?
Do you intend to have equipment in the back or in the front, below the screen?
Is anybody in your family sensitive to rainbow effect of DLP?

These factors will more or less dictate projector selection.

 

[musicbee]

Congrats on the venture Sam.

Will follow this thread keenly.

 

[sam9s]

Sam,

Nice approach for the theater building. It's better to plan ahead and work the wrinkles out.

We know your room size but you need to tell us more how you plan it. The projector choice and entire speaker layout/setup will depend on that.

Does room have any ambient light? Any windows/doors near the screen?
Are you planning to have all the walls (including ceiling) dark or light color?
What screen size are you aiming for?
Do you want 3D or not interested in it?
Will it be a fixed screen or pull-down?
Do you intend to have equipment in the back or in the front, below the screen?
Is anybody in your family sensitive to rainbow effect of DLP?

These factors will more or less dictate projector selection.

Valid Questions Manoj, and thanks for the inputs .... here my response ...


Does room have any ambient light? Any windows/doors near the screen?

No Ambient light, it will be dedicated HT Projector room, I might have a feable room light, while watching, casual videos, online videos, you tube etc, but mainly for movies, complete darkness.

also no windows in the room, just two doors, one for entrance and one for exit.

Are you planning to have all the walls (including ceiling) dark or light color?

Dark as dark as possible, wall would be thin carpetted, my personal choice Dark Maroon

What screen size are you aiming for?

The max I can have for my room size, 15x10x8. Min I would prefer is 100'. Can you suggest whats the max I can go?


Do you want 3D or not interested in it?

Yes I am interested in 3D all the projectors I have listed are Full HD 3D. But i am totally clueless about the glasses, as no projector comes with glasses,a and there are so many with huge price variation, that I am confused which one to go, or even which ones are compatible. Need fellow members input here.

Will it be a fixed screen or pull-down?

Fixed constant image height (CIH)

Do you intend to have equipment in the back or in the front, below the screen?

Equipment will be in a separate rack somewhere at the back of the room. I will only have fronts and center with the screen. Even the sub I will keep somewhere at the back (not entirely decided, will do a hit and trial on the sub placement and see where I get the max punch)


Is anybody in your family sensitive to rainbow effect of DLP?

What on mother earth is rainbow effect, I have read quite a few reviews for all 4 projectors and I somehow missed this "rainbow effect" in any of these reviews. I will google on this and come back with an answer.

 

[apk]

Congratulations and great going!

The HT room will be some where around 10x15x8, and the listening room will be tiny 10x10x8

When you say listening room - I am guessing you mean your stereo listening room, right?

1. Floorstands :::: NEW Already auditioned truck loads of floorstands and I am all in for wharfedale 10.4

For a 10x10 room, I doubt if you will need a floorstander. You may be better off with a bookshelf (such as the 10.1 or 10.2) and can put the money saved into a better amplifier/source. Just my 2 paisa....

Best,
APK

 

[sam9s]

Congratulations and great going!



When you say listening room - I am guessing you mean your stereo listening room, right?


For a 10x10 room, I doubt if you will need a floorstander. You may be better off with a bookshelf (such as the 10.1 or 10.2) and can put the money saved into a better amplifier/source. Just my 2 paisa....

Best,
APK

Yes Dedicated music room (pure stereo)....... budget is a huge constraint, as civil cost is something I am seriously fighting with, will share all details in my PHASE II thread.

floorstands ::: every single person I have taken a suggestion, says the same too big for the room, however what ever book shelves I have listened, they don't satisfy me, especially at high volumes, (I intent to listen music at little more volume then an avg person does. ) so when the volume is cranked up, the dynamics and base I get, is simply not there in any book shelves I have tried,(including Polk LSi9, which I though would definitely satisfy me) in the same price bracket. At low volumes yes both are same more or less. Hence wharfs.

 

[manoj.p]

Valid Questions Manoj, and thanks for the inputs .... here my response ...


Does room have any ambient light? Any windows/doors near the screen?

No Ambient light, it will be dedicated HT Projector room, I might have a feable room light, while watching, casual videos, online videos, you tube etc, but mainly for movies, complete darkness.

also no windows in the room, just two doors, one for entrance and one for exit.

Are you planning to have all the walls (including ceiling) dark or light color?

Dark as dark as possible, wall would be thin carpetted, my personal choice Dark Maroon

That's fantastic. Gives you quite a freedom and the end result as far as immersion, contrast is wonderful. I have a suggestion. If you can cover the walls with fabric instead of paint, that would be even great. Because paint is usually shiny and still reflect some light. Instead, if you cover walls with thick fabric, you can get away with dark maroon or brown color scheme.

What screen size are you aiming for?

The max I can have for my room size, 15x10x8. Min I would prefer is 100'. Can you suggest whats the max I can go?

Max screen size in your case will be dictated by the L/R speaker placement. Place your speakers optimally on left and right, depending upon how these sound. Then whatever the space that you get in between will be your max screen. It's a good thing that your speakers do not have the port in the back, otherwise, port in back still poses few restrictions.

Do you want 3D or not interested in it?

Yes I am interested in 3D all the projectors I have listed are Full HD 3D. But i am totally clueless about the glasses, as no projector comes with glasses,a and there are so many with huge price variation, that I am confused which one to go, or even which ones are compatible. Need fellow members input here.

For 3D, picture brightness is very important. Around 110 or below, you should be fine with any of the projectors you have listed. Above that size, I would lean towards Epson because it does throw a very bright image in 3D as well.

As far as DLP vs LCD concerned, you will get ghost free picture with DLP. So, if you are below 110" diagonal, I will recommend going DLP route. Another plus is the gaming lag - DLP is wonderful in this.

If you have to go with LCD, then rather look for Epson 3020. This years Epson 2030 is actually a step back from last years 3020.

Will it be a fixed screen or pull-down?

Fixed constant image height (CIH)

How do you plan to do CIH? by zooming or using anamorphic lens? None of the projectors that you linked have power zoom. So, that leaves anamorphic lens but that will set you back by another 2000 USD for good quality external lens. Or is this just a typo?

Do you intend to have equipment in the back or in the front, below the screen?

Equipment will be in a separate rack somewhere at the back of the room. I will only have fronts and center with the screen. Even the sub I will keep somewhere at the back (not entirely decided, will do a hit and trial on the sub placement and see where I get the max punch)

This is nice. I also have equipment in the back. Those little lights on the equipment can be very distracting while watching movie and these do appear quite bright once you have turned off all the lights.

Is anybody in your family sensitive to rainbow effect of DLP?

What on mother earth is rainbow effect, I have read quite a few reviews for all 4 projectors and I somehow missed this "rainbow effect" in any of these reviews. I will google on this and come back with an answer.

DLP rainbow is caused by the color wheel and its speed. Very few people are sensitive to it. Better to go check any DLP projector in bright scenes. If you don't see colors separating or rainbows in the picture, you are good. Just google and get it out of the way.

 

[sam9s]

For 3D, picture brightness is very important. Around 110 or below, you should be fine with any of the projectors you have listed. Above that size, I would lean towards Epson because it does throw a very bright image in 3D as well.

As far as DLP vs LCD concerned, you will get ghost free picture with DLP. So, if you are below 110" diagonal, I will recommend going DLP route. Another plus is the gaming lag - DLP is wonderful in this.

If you have to go with LCD, then rather look for Epson 3020. This years Epson 2030 is actually a step back from last years 3020.

Ok seems you have contradicted yourself .. Initially you suggested Epson, which is an LCD projector, with good bright image for 3D as well. But later you are recommending DLP as DLP provide ghose free image (what ever that means). So what shall I opt? ..... I will try for a 120" screen how ever if space is of constraint will settle with 110". Gaming is not my priority on the projector. (may be occasionally) Mostly I will always use my 47" LCD in the other room.
Epson 3020 is out of my budget straightaway (1500 USD) so that is out of question. So the question still remains same Epson 2030 or Optoma HD25-LV. For what I have read blacks are better on Optoma, but color reproduction is better on Epson. Epson also has better lamp life and the lamp cost is also cheaper than Optoma. But Optoma has a better brightness when it comes to 3D, (but I wonder how much 3D content I will actually see say after the initial excitement dies off after say 6 months .. )

So these are few points to consider.

How do you plan to do CIH? by zooming or using anamorphic lens? None of the projectors that you linked have power zoom. So, that leaves anamorphic lens but that will set you back by another 2000 USD for good quality external lens. Or is this just a typo?

mmmmm Masking maybe .... Frankly I am confused, please shed some more light and info on this. I will prefer a 16:9 screen if that helps. By CIH what I understand is the width remains constant and you change the height via masking ..... please I am no expert, pardon. I am novice on this. I would prefer expert to suggest and point me in the right direction.

DLP rainbow is caused by the color wheel and its speed. Very few people are sensitive to it. Better to go check any DLP projector in bright scenes. If you don't see colors separating or rainbows in the picture, you are good. Just google and get it out of the way.

mmm what about LCD does LCD has this rainbow issue ????? coz that might also go in favour of EPSON 2030....... what do you say.

And thanks for all the time and effort for replied ..... hope more gurus post and assist me.

 

[manoj.p]

Sam,

Yes, it does seem I have contradicted myself, so let me clarify. With 3D, there are two predominant issues. Brightness in 3D mode (because one eye is blacked off half the time) and ghosting. Both of these make or break the 3D experience.

Now, LCD/LCOS have slight ghosting in the images, inherent because of the slowness of the pixel to move in those chips. Epson with their 480 Hz panels have reduced it quite a bit but you do see it sometimes, on some material. DLP is flawless in this because the mirrors are on/off precisely.

Brightness is another issue. Since the light source can only do so much, as the screen size increased, light output per sq ft of screen size reduced dramatically. With 3D its even more pronounced. Dim picture is the first thing you will notice, even before realizing that there is ghosting.

So, it's like choose your poison. If you have big screen - go for brighter picture. Smaller screen, then there is no brightness issue, so go for DLP for flawless ghosting performance. In your case, DLP will be more suited. I have a 150" diagonal screen, so Epson was the obvious choice. Hope I have not confused you this time.

As for CIH - what you are describing is CIW (constant image width). In that case, just get the 16:9 screen and you can put extra velvet masks. This will give you max size screens for 2.35/16:9/4:3 with minimal effort/complexities.

The DLP rainbow effect is caused by single chip + color wheel. 3 chip DLP projectors don't have this problem but those are very very expensive. All LCD projectors are 3 chip, so do not have the rainbow problem. Do not get daunted by it. Just try any DLP projector, even the business one is fine and see if you are sensitive to it. Most likely you are not. Very few percentage of people are sensitive to it. I just wanted you to make aware of it.

 

[sam9s]

Ok After a lot, I mean a lot of review readings and my personal analysis as well, I have decided to go with EPSON 2030. Two main Reasons

1. Rainbow Effect :: Well I dont know what it is or if I would even be affected, but reading certain reviews on amazon, if you do it will ruin your experience all together. Why take the risk. Plus even if I might not be susceptible, my wife could be, or friends relatives who also would come to my house to have some 3D experience and it can ruin there experience. So not taking the DLP route

2. Lamp life plus lamp cost ::: EPSON 2030 has better lamp life, atleast on eco mode plus the lamp cost is 99USD as compared to Optoma HD series where lamp cost starts from 140USD.

apart from there two reasons, other can be extra features like MHL, RF glasses over IR glasses. ...etc. ASA picture quality goes the only difference I can make out by reading gazillions reviews is Optoma has better blacks and Epson 2030 has better color reproduction. Apart from that the brightness, contrast, everything in 2D movie is more or less same in both the projectors.

Optoma HD25e has 3D brightness edge over 2030, but not that it will ruin the experience, since I anyhow would be watching the movie in complete darkness, with no ambient or artificial light. I think I should be ok.

Given these points I have finally told my friend to bring the Epson 2030 when he returns in Mid FEB.

===================

Focus now shifts to SUB and CENTER (since AVR as well I have decided to go for DENON AVR X1000)

SO friends please I need a little bit more participation, from this member who has written long articles and reviews for this community .....now I need your help ........

Which SUB to go for <=30K and Center to go for <=6,7K

 

[sam9s]

As for CIH - what you are describing is CIW (constant image width). In that case, just get the 16:9 screen and you can put extra velvet masks. This will give you max size screens for 2.35/16:9/4:3 with minimal effort/complexities.

Ok yes makes sense, constant W. I will read more on how exactly do you manage the masking thing. Auto masking any vender in Delhi that does this job with an affordable price ... Manual masking I might be able to do a DIY, but was just wondering if AUto masking is possible

 

[manoj.p]

Sam,

If you are planning to use a subwoofer, then I would rather go with bookshelf speakers than floorstanders. That will give you a very good placement option, as you dont have to pull that much from the corners. Will save you some money in the process too.

 

[sam9s]

^^ I already have Polk Tsi300 bro , so would be using them as fronts........ guess you missed that point ......

 

[theironhorse]

Ok After a lot, I mean a lot of review readings and my personal analysis as well, I have decided to go with EPSON 2030. Two main Reasons

1. Rainbow Effect :: Well I dont know what it is or if I would even be affected, but reading certain reviews on amazon, if you do it will ruin your experience all together. Why take the risk. Plus even if I might not be susceptible, my wife could be, or friends relatives who also would come to my house to have some 3D experience and it can ruin there experience. So not taking the DLP route

2. Lamp life plus lamp cost ::: EPSON 2030 has better lamp life, atleast on eco mode plus the lamp cost is 99USD as compared to Optoma HD series where lamp cost starts from 140USD.

[/U][/B]

@sam9s

regarding rainbox effect i have realized that people will glasses are more prone to it. if thats the case then a DLP projector might ruin your fun. you an ideally then look for 3 LCD which are less prone to rainbows.

i also read about rainbows before venturing into pj's however till date of close to 80 hours .. close to 35 movies have not noticed any rainbow effect with a DLP pj also if i try to click the picture only then in the camera/phone screen i can see the effect...



regarding lamp life.. all of us wonder that 2000-3000 hours is too less but to be true if you watch only movies the bulb will last you anything more than 2 years so if you can manage a big screen space. without a doubt go for the pj keeping in mind the PQ and not lamp life..

4 movies a week : 10 hours :

52 weeks : 520 hours... at max 600 hours for an year.

2000 hours at least will be close to 3 years and am sure no one of us would mind spending 8-10k for a big size screen every 2.5-3 years..

 

[sam9s]

@sam9s

regarding rainbow effect i have realized that people will glasses are more prone to it. if thats the case then a DLP projector might ruin your fun. you an ideally then look for 3 LCD which are less prone to rainbows.

i also read about rainbows before venturing into pj's however till date of close to 80 hours .. close to 35 movies have not noticed any rainbow effect with a DLP pj also if i try to click the picture only then in the camera/phone screen i can see the effect...



regarding lamp life.. all of us wonder that 2000-3000 hours is too less but to be true if you watch only movies the bulb will last you anything more than 2 years so if you can manage a big screen space. without a doubt go for the pj keeping in mind the PQ and not lamp life..

4 movies a week : 10 hours :

52 weeks : 520 hours... at max 600 hours for an year.

2000 hours at least will be close to 3 years and am sure no one of us would mind spending 8-10k for a big size screen every 2.5-3 years..

well I wear glasses so, the little doubt, I had, has turned in to certainty.,
about lamp cost, well, that was one of the factor, but not the deciding one, RBE was the one I was more concerned. Else he Benq W1080 seems to out perform 2030 when it comes to blacks. Other features just added to the already inclined decision towards 2030.

Lamp life again was not a strong deciding factor, but to an extent that played a part as well, though I wont watch 4 movies in a week, well maybe initially (for few months), coz of the projector excitement, but in long run it would not go beyond 2-3 movies over week end.)
However I certainly would spend much time on TV series so in that sense yes projector would be used quite a lot. Plus occasional gaming is also there.

==================

ANyway 2030 is decided, can you also shed some light on the SUB part for <=30.

Also one Q is there a way to utilize 2 SUB where in you have an AVR with only one sub out ..... possible ????